"Universal healthcare" (as proposed by Hillary) would be government-run. See my previous statement about Medicare and how crappy it is. "Mandatory Healthcare Insurance" only requires that you have some type of insurance plan, which is already used in some states for their automobile insurance (I think Maryland is one state that does this). I'm not sure that is great either, but it is certainly the lesser of the two evils in this scenario.

One thing for everyone to look into is "flexible spending accounts." If your company offers them, you should take advantage of it. Here's a great read on it (and a really decent financial website too) - http://www.bankrate.com/brm/itax/news/20001129a.asp?caret=6a

In a nutshell, you can lower your taxable income, and have money set aside for medical bills that arise during the calendar year (typically covers co-pays, other med bills not covered by insurance). You do have to "use it or lose it", so plan your expenses accordingly. There is also a "dependent care account" which many people with young children use to cover the cost of child daycare.

These accounts won't apply once you start using Medicare though, and you'll have to flip a coin as to wich supplemental insurance will be best for you by then. However, as long as you are still working past 65 you don't have to use Medicare so just consider that as well.

We are still a free state, so anyone can go out and eat Big Macs until they puke, end up with clogged arteries, and have multiple medical problems caused by such overeating. I do have a big problem with paying for someone's ignorance though. I didn't force him/her to eat irresponsibly, so why should I have to pay for their healthcare? This type of thought process has been brought about by those who do not want to be held accountable for their actions, who do not believe in personal responsibility, and who do not care about the consequences of their actions on either themselves or others. THIS is what we are paying higher costs for (well that and the illegals who get med coverage as well - why aren't we billing the home country for them!?!??!?!)

There are circumstances beyond our control, such as family medical history, accidents, etc. But the bottom line is it's cheaper to be healthy, and the more you do to enable that the better off you will stand to be in the long run. That's why I jog 3 - 4 miles 3x/week, and play golf approximately 2x month. (I would prefer to play golf more, but I spent this past spring playing nearly every weekend and some during the week, so I'm catching up on house projects now and assembling parts for an oil cooler setup.)

To (sort of) get back on topic, I really hope GM survives. I was actually planning on buying something in the next couple of years and after hearing about the proposed Z28 option (either late 2010 or early 2011) I was going to look at it once it came out.

what was this topic about again?

Howdy,



I think it was about how nobody would be able to afford to buy a new GM car because they're paying for healthcare.

:-)

Mark

Can't afford a new GM... screw that I'm looking for a house! After reading all this I just want to live at home and bank my money in fear of getting sick.

This is one of the few times this board has made me depressed.

Actually it was about how a leviathan like GM has let itself go to the point that it is almost unrecoverable. The health care cost aspect was part of the overall pricing problem GM faces when competing in the now global automobile market.

I wonder what type of health care system GM's Chinese workers have...

I think it was about the Government taking over General Motors and turning it into a freebie hospital...or something.

Bock (just trying to elevate the prevailing mood) Folken

I'd be happy to help.





Actually, if I read the press release correctly they're taking a pretty good hit as well.

This post has been edited by poSSum: Jul 16 2008, 03:39 AM

That sounds like a plan. I think I'll join you. Live at home until I'm 30 and keep the money in the mattress... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Nah....now is the time to buy (buy low, sell high). Get a good financial investor/planner though - the market is fixing to go on an E-ticket ride... The two words my guy said to me was "buy silver"....and it's starting to creep up now.

wow... the most political thread ever in this forum.

The BLSH mantra is contingent on being able to do the "sell high" portion. Any of the houses I can afford to buy low, I don't know if they'll ever sell high. We'll see what another 5+ months of a bad economy brings though...

I've been half ass watching GM stock. They're either going to fall into oblivion or make a crapload of cash. Now, is the glass half full or half empty? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Don't start down that path.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Well, that's the risk to take. Have also heard they may require government assistance if things don't turn around soon. This reminds me of Chrysler in the early 80's (K-car anyone?)...They turned around and made a decent profit after a few years, but there were several crutches placed then that I doubt would happen today (but who knows). A free-market perspective would let them fall on their sword. A government bailout would (probably IMO) be the right thing for a speculative investor. More than likely the bailout would occur, as you could not not bailout GM after bailing out Chrysler, politically speaking. Michigan (and Detroit in particular) has much worse unemployment than the rest of the country. I'm just curious who would carry that debt, since the dollar is so weak right now.

I honestly think GM is doing OK and people buy more magazine headlines that spell doom and gloom for GM then something the says they are shifting to adjusting market trends. Honestly, the media is a business too. I believe Wagner when he says GM has enough cash to go 1-1.5 years without selling anything, THAT'S A LOT OF CASH! I'll believe Wagner way before I believe wall street or the mass market media. I'm actually excited about cars like the Chevy Volt. Series Hybrids seem like a much better idea then parallel hybrids and the return of the electric car is exciting. Please GM make it slightly sporty and I'll buy it.

I really don't want Universal Health Care. The biggest problem with the Government providing ANYTHING is that the Government doesn't have any real competition. The rules for the Government aren't the same as for the private sector. Free market and competition at least keep prices somewhat in check. My fear is similar to what Eugenio_SS said, basically if someone else is footing the bill everyone with a stubbed toe will go to the ER for care, which will drive the cost for care way up. If you think big business health care profits are big, I think the Government will take a lot more off the top of a Universal Health Care system. Basically treating Universal Health Care as a cash cow like the borrowing they have done from Social Security. They really don't have anyone to regulate them.

As someone who lives about 8 miles from the White House, I can say that this town is sick with selfishness. The American dream of working hard is dead here. There is so much competition for everything here (housing, parking, traffic, service of any kind) that the new American dream is how can I undercut this person to take their spot. There is no more unmarked claims for anything around here, you have to take from someone else to get what you want. I'm so sick and tired of it that I'm moving and taking a job 2 hours south of DC. I just can't stand it anymore. I seriously think this mentality has penetrated into the Government (since the Government is here) and everyone is looking out for self interest. If your not in the 6 figure salary club, then you have no representation in the federal government. I know it's a dark picture, but it's the reality of living in and around DC. Competition for everything has corrupted peoples sense of "love your neighbor". If we continue down this path I think we are going to hear the word "revolution" a lot more.

edit: can't spell

This post has been edited by pknowles: Jul 16 2008, 02:16 PM

Well, you're right about that. My wife has cancer, and her treatment expenses exceed my gross, pretax salery. My only pension is my savings, and I would have to burn through most of it before Medicaid would kick in. I have no expectation of getting to choose my "retirement" date in my industry. My Healthcare Flexible Spending Account is maxed to the Federal limit, and my wife burns through it by July (and that's just for the expenses that are unpaid by the best and most expensive health insurance plan my employer offers). Living in the Western Hemisphere has become a huge disadvantage in my career field.

To put it very bluntly, if I get laid off before my wife dies, I'm in deep trouble. Obviously we hope to postpone both events as long as possible, but both are probably inevitable.

Oh, and my daughter is four.

No, I don't sleep all that well.

Seems that this is a second report to back up the one I posted earlier about prices hitting a wall. Suddenly "extra stock". Hmm...


http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/16/markets/oi...dex.htm?cnn=yes

See - this is how a political discussion SHOULD happen. We all kept it civilized, we presented info in a logical manner, and we all agree to disagree. Thanks!!

Oh, Mark - to answer your question about who is paying for those who don't have insurance right now (Mcare, Mcaid and uninsured), they would pay their own premiums, just as the rest of us do. Everyone gets money from somewhere - the unemployed and underemployed get it from the government, we get it from our jobs. If those people who don't have insurance now refuse to take their money (that the government is giving them) nd buy health insurance, the government would withhold the amount of the premiums and pay an insurance company directly.

As for people who have jobs, don't receive government benefits, and still don't make enough money to pay the premiums, they'd have to make some tough decisions.

OK, back to GM!!

Hey Phil, where are you locating to 2 hours south of DC?

i'm staying on-topic... GM survival making us sick.. lol (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I wish I had an online stock trading account last night. GM went up over a point and a half.

"Are you guys denting cans?" "Yeah, Microsofts down 3 points!"...