My dad, who is 57, started doing HPDE's about 12 years ago with me in his 97 Camaro (I had an 91 MR2 Turbo). In 05, he sold the Camaro because he bought an 05 Lotus Elise. Unfortunately, he has never really understood how to get that little car to get around a race track. I don't really understand why he has such a hard time, but his recent spin (a couple of years ago) has sucked any confidence that he had out of him. I feel like he's so intimated by the car, that even after 6 years, he's not enjoying himself.

This past weekend, we were at an open track day at VIR and he told me that he's not sure how many more of these things he's going to do. Now, let me tell you that me, my dad, my brother, and my mom have had so many memories at race tracks. Me and my brother have a serious passion for the track. I thought my dad shared the same, but yesterday I realized that he doesn't.

He asked me to go for a ride with him and I saw that he's doing really well, but he's still driving the Elise like its a Camaro, not like the mid engine, low hp car that it is. Even after 6 years, he can't break his habits. I then took him for a ride in the Camaro. Now, this was his car, with the same 396 LT1 that he had, but I did suspension work, C5 brakes, gutted the interior, and track tires. He was absolutely blown away with the performance of the car. He kept talking about how much he misses the massive torque the car has.

This got me thinking. I have felt for a while that he's not enjoying himself as much as I think he could be. He loves being out there with his sons, and we absolutely love having him with us. But I'm thinking he needs a good old American V8 again.

Learn me Corvettes. I think that a Z06 C5 would make a good car that he could drive around on the weekends along with the occasional track day. And the best part is that a fairly low mileage Z06 is only in the low $20's. A regular C5 is like $15k. I think that would still be enough car for him to enjoy.

I know C6's are amazing cars. But is it worth the extra cost? They are in the low $30's from what I've found.

I talked to my brother and we both agree that he could possibly give up track days for good. But the reason is because he's not comfortable in his car and the weekend ends up being a stressful weekend of work, instead of an enjoyable one with his kids. If we give him just a little push, he could end up in a car that he is more comfortable in, and therefore will enjoy many more track days with his family.

I thought of recommending an LS1 Camaro, but they require too much work to the suspension to be enjoyable. How are C5s? Is the C6 worth the money?

I brought up the idea of selling the Elise and getting a C6 Z06 and he was interested in what I had to say. I'd like to have more information for him and let him make the decision. Being in the right car will at least give him the chance to really be able to enjoy this hobby. If after this he still isn't into it, then fine, at least we know it wasn't because he's in the wrong car.

What do you guys think?
Steve

His is the red one.

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v199/Steve91T/Camaro/2011-12-18_13-52-38_757.jpg)

My only time in an Elise was at Cal Speedway, in the passenger seat. Boring. I could tell it went around corners well, but so does a Miata.

I bought a 99 C5 FRC new, while I was leaning to RR my Camaro. I'd instruct in the Vette in the off season, and did a lot of Autox with it. Pretty steep learning curve. With only shocks, tires, brake pads, tires and an alignment the Vette was faster than the race car for several seasons. Easy to drive close to the limit, very responsive to small changes in setup. It also made a good daily driver and got over 30mpg on road trips. Sold it at 105Kmi.

I personally have gone through this mental exercise and am about the same age as your dad (54). I have romanced the Vette idea for years but have yet to act on it.

My car is similar to yours but a 383 and still street legal. No way I would be happy with a Lotus, so I see your point. Glitzy but no fun.

It may be a little odd to hear this on this forum but in this scenario I think your dad might enjoy a later model Mustang if you are not solely stuck on GM. They make oodles of parts for the things and they handle as well as F-cars, often better. It can be a little cheaper than going the Vette road...and fairly easy to work on. If you don't go crazy with it, it will still carry four people and/or a bunch of groceries.

Just another angle.

Thanks guys for the opinions. The Mustang is an interesting idea, but I think it'll still be more work than he's willing to do right now. I think the C5 would be good enough out of the box to enjoy.

Any experiences with the C5 Z06? What about a base C6?

I too was looking at a 10 year old C5 to tool around in. Had my eye a few.

Then one day as I was running errands, I started noticing all the C5s on the road.
Then I noticed most of the drivers were grey haired old men.

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I didn't want to be another grey haired old man in a C5, so I bought a Cadillac. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

First Gen CTSVs are very affordable and many are really low miles.
06 and 07 are the prime years. They have the LS2 and updated rear diff.

My 06 had 48K on the clock and I got into it for around $20K.
Better deals can be found. This one was local ...

It's been a hoot schooling some of these 35 year old punks in an old man car.

I've been on track with it a few times. Its a very capable car. But it is a heavy pig.

Just something to think about .

He actually looked into the CT-V and just wasn't impressed. He was really impressed with the BMW 335d. I recommended he drive one and he ended up going home with it. Talk about an impressive engine. You know what he loves the most about it? The unbelievable amount of torque.

So he's got his practical sedan that hauls butt and gets 36 MPG around town. Now he needs something that he can enjoy on the track as well as around town.

Honestly, I see the Lotus as a fantastic autocross car, but not a track car. If all he's out to do is have fun and not qualify for the Lotus-only challenge or some specific race class, then why not have a bigger car with loads of power? It also depends a lot on your home track. VIR is "pretty big" in my estimation, though I've never been there, and big tracks are all about HP not handling (so much). At Summit Point (main track) I'd never have fun with a small car, the whole reason I take my TA there is I can't do 95mph+ at autocross.
So you're right.
And as far as C5 or C6 - well that's probably more a function of $$$ and willingness to setup or needing to always pass the other cars. Does your pop *need* to be one of the fastest guys to be happy? Or is simply a "fun day at the track" good enough? If he needs speed, C6 is the way to go. If it's less important to be #1 then I think a C5 is good enough, they are plenty fast; plus he/you have extra money for tires etc.

I've been kinda in the market for a vette myself and have done some research on the c5 vs c6. From what I've found, the base c5 will handle just as good as the base c6. Its when you step up to the c6 z06 or grand sport that the differences come out. Best bang for buck right now is probably the c5 z06 or an early c6 z51. Ofcourse your dad could just buy my modded 98 Z28 and then I could get that C6gs I've had my eye on, haha!

You could buy my car thats for sale in the classified section. It would be a cheaper way to test the waters. I'm only about 5 hours away from roanoke

He actually lives in Charlotte, which is probably even closer to you. But, I think he'd be happier in a Vette than the Camaro. I could be wrong though. Especially since Camaro's are so cheap. 140K miles, huh? That's good to know the engine is holding up. I'll keep it in mind.

BTW, those pics with your passengers head sticking out the T-Top is hilarious!

I think its about the same time wise. And yes it was it was even funnier driving him around. And the engine is doing great still plenty of power and torque, for a stock LT1. I love driving this car

I just had a thought. He loves my engine, the 396. I could sell him my engine, swap it into your car, then run your engine on the track until it blows. Still good compression and oil pressure? Any rust? What's the overall condition of the car? Is there an interior? What kind of shape? Still street legal?

Being that it's so cheap, he could actually keep the Elise, buy yours and drive it on the track. Then decide what he wants to do.

I don't want to get your hopes up, but it's just something to think about. I'll see what he thinks. If he does something like this, it's probably not going to be for a little while.

Steve

Edit: I just talked to him and he just don't want to get into anything that requires work because of his lack of time. That's what so nice about the Elise. It goes for years on brakes and tires and doesn't need anything than oil changes. So, I don't know. We'll see. I'm moving to within 45 minutes of them and told him I'd love to be able to help him with his car and that could help. A Camaro does make sense. Cheap, fast with a little work and I already know the car.

This post has been edited by Steve91T: Dec 21 2011, 06:53 PM

yes compression is good oil pressure is good no rust that I see car is in good shape a couple little dings nothing major. only interior is door panels and dash although I do have some if you are interested. Alan did almost all the work to the car for the guy that had it before me. Yes it is street legal and it could be fun. No work is needed on it at this time turn key and go.

PM sent

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. At base C5 would probably be right up his alley, although I really think that even a Z28 wouldn't be a bad idea either. The LT1 probably scares him just a little after watching two of my HPDE weekends go down the toilet because the opti fell apart. But now that I know you have to loctite the little screws for the arm, it'll probably be OK now. An LS1 would be much better.

We'll see what I can talk him into getting (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


BTW, the supercharged Elises are very good track cars. They not only brake and handle like they are on rails, but they actually pull hard down the straights. When I was overtaking them down the straights at over 100 MPH, I didn't have them by all that much. And they only have 220 hp.

This post has been edited by Steve91T: Dec 21 2011, 11:07 PM