Problems, solutions, and observations, A few head slappers from an HPDE car Options

[jensend]

First off, this is intended as confession and comment not as complaint or car bashing.

Experienced a "marbles rattling in a can" noise at a Watkins Glen HPDE. Came in and inspected the car- no visible signs of trouble. Left the track and encountered the same noise on decelleration (usually downhill). On 3rd occurrance, coming to a STOP sign, the motor quit, check gauges was displayed and starter would not turn the motor over. Suspected blown clutch. On a lift with a good light holes in the upper part of the bell housing were visible. Clutch diagnosis seemed probable. However, disassembly revealed that one of the Trans to Bellhousing bolts had worked itself loose and had been flung about the inside of the bellhousing eventually jamming between the flywheel teeth and the starter gear. Bellhousing, pressure plate, clutch disk, and starter were all damaged by the bolt and related shrapnel.

When replacing the damaged parts we ran into the traditional problem with bleeding the clutch hydraulic system. After numerous lengthy and unsuccessful pumping/bleeding efforts, my wife finally solved the problem by manually pulling up the clutch pedal before trying to once again pump the pedal. Two such applications produced a quick and successful bleeding of the system.

Road testing of the "repaired car" produced horrible tinny squealing/growling noises when the car hit bumps. A thorough inspection of the driveshaft, torque arm and exhaust system showed no evidence of any contact. We carefully clearanced all the components and "checked everything". The noise remained. Drained and inspected the diff and axles. No issues found. Finally, during reassembly we noticed that the left rear parking brake ring was extremely loose and was apparently bouncing out of place and binding when the car hit bumps. We traced the cause of this condition to the fact that the parking brake was heavily used when loading the car on the tow truck and when removing the console to access the shifter. As a result, the ring was fairly loose and out of adjustment. The noises were the results of the ring moving inside the drum and stopped when the rotation of the drum re-seated the ring. After adjusting the ring's tension all noises ceased.

This post will hopefully help someone avoid some of the confusion and frustration we experienced in repairing the car. Track cars- gotta love 'em! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rant2.gif)

[slowTA]

My dad's suburban tossed a flexplate to torque converter bolt. I found the problem but couldn't get the bolt out of the torque converter. We had a transmission shop do the work and they recommended a new flexplate, torque converter, and transmission mount. The next year we had to replace the bearing that supported the 2 piece drive shaft. But I have to ask how a transmission to bell housing bolt falls into the clutch.

[sgarnett]

But I have to ask how a transmission to bell housing bolt falls into the clutch.

I was wondering about that too. The trans-to-bellhousing bolts are on the outside. It sounds like two bolts came out. The trans bolt was probably lost, and the loose bolt inside was probably a pressure-plate bolt, slave cylinder bolt (or maybe a shift fork bolt on an LT1). A 12-point flywheel bolt would have been easy to recognize, so we can probably rule that out.

[jensend]

The bolt (perhaps I misnamed it) attaches an intermediate housing to the front of the Trans. It is an M10 x1.5 hex bolt approximately 2" in length. All of these bolts attach from the inside of the housing. This was not one of the bolts holding the outside of the Trans to the bellhousing.

[GM01SS]

Dennis............wondered where you went! Not that you missed anything but alot of rain!!!

I have had a similar situation..............had a small piece of metal hanging ( lol) out of the inspection area of the bellhousing...........found that one of the springs from the PP decided to come apart and would make a noise on occasion.

To add insult to injury (that's racin!!) put in a new PP clutch all new hydralics and bellhousing ( expensive!).

Within 100 miles had a niose (tinney, rattaling kind of noise)

Had a good friend and great all around mechanic take it apart ( I was convince I F/U something and found a weight for the pressure plate (NEW) had come off and was rattiling around ( and DESTROYING my new bellhousing!)

Total cost ( we reused the bellhousing, I was not buying another @ $350.00) New clutch ( twice!) about $2000.00

Now I could have put in a new GM everything for around $600.00 (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif)

Just my luck!

[y5e06]

The bolt (perhaps I misnamed it) attaches an intermediate housing to the front of the Trans. It is an M10 x1.5 hex bolt approximately 2" in length. All of these bolts attach from the inside of the housing. This was not one of the bolts holding the outside of the Trans to the bellhousing.

thats a transmission adaptor plate bolt. bolts front/adaptor plate to the main housing of the trans.

This post has been edited by y5e06: Oct 22 2007, 02:17 PM

[jensend]

Dennis............wondered where you went! Not that you missed anything but alot of rain!!!

I have had a similar situation..............had a small piece of metal hanging ( lol) out of the inspection area of the bellhousing...........found that one of the springs from the PP decided to come apart and would make a noise on occasion.

To add insult to injury (that's racin!!) put in a new PP clutch all new hydralics and bellhousing ( expensive!).

Within 100 miles had a niose (tinney, rattaling kind of noise)

Had a good friend and great all around mechanic take it apart ( I was convince I F/U something and found a weight for the pressure plate (NEW) had come off and was rattiling around ( and DESTROYING my new bellhousing!)

Total cost ( we reused the bellhousing, I was not buying another @ $350.00) New clutch ( twice!) about $2000.00

Now I could have put in a new GM everything for around $600.00 (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif)

Just my luck!

Hi Gary,

We returned to The Glen about 1:00 pm the second day of the event to retrieve our utility trailer. We know what you mean about rain. Had to alter the trailer wiring harness to conform to that if the truck we borrowed.

We had a nightmare ordering and receiving parts for the repairs. GM Z06 clutch, PP, FW set us back almost $600. A steel bellhousing (ordered from Summit Racing) turned out to be a universal item designed only for cars without cats. That set us back 3 days. Ordered an OEM bellhousing overnighted, but there was a glitch with the shipping and we had to wait another 2 days! Install time was quick, but solving the other issues took some time. All in all, we were at our friend's place for just about 10 days! Finally got home about 8:30 this past Saturday night. BTW, the tow was over 150 miles!

Two nice things came out of this experience. First, everyone from the Trackmasters group that came down the hill after us stopped to offer help, tools, etc to try and get us on our way. Some expressed regret that they didn't have trailer space to help us avoid the tow. Also learned that my friends in upstate New York are really great folks. Besides providing tools and mechanical help, they also gave us a place to stay and loaned us vehicles throughout our entire stay. All in all, it may have been an expensive and frustrating problem, but a rewarding experience in terms of our sense of community. Hope all is well with you. See you in the spring.

[Teutonic Speedra...]

I too had a similar sound a few years ago. I ended up having a few of the weights on the pressure plate fingers break off and create the rattling sound. It must've been some street miles and a track event or two before I saw the little holes in the bellhousing (small enough that I'm still on the same bellhousing 3 years later). Man...and I just threw away the Z06 clutch and flywheel a few weeks ago b/c no-one ever seemed to want it (was in great shape with lots of life...just the pressure plate was bad). Been on a Spec 2 w/Al FW and LW PP since then with no issues. I drilled a large inspection hole in the the BH for further future inspections (capped with a Ford rubber inspection plug ~1-1/2" dia).

Glad to hear you have it all resolved!

[jensend]

Thanks Dennis. The previous clutch, PP, and FW were also a GM Z-06 package. When I removed them (after nearly two years of track service) the only issue was damage caused by the loose and flying bolt. The PP had 60-80 deep gouges in its outer surface, but no bluing, or broken fingers. The clutch showed minimal wear, but it, too had damage around its edges caused by the bolt. The FW was unharmed except for a few nicks in the ring gear. The gear and spring in the starter were heavily damaged and the aluminum casting surrounding the gear was severely damaged. Like you, I scrapped all the old parts-including the FW. The bellhousing had at least a dozen holes of varying sizes and several large cracks. Seems to be a very fragile casting considering the application. Unfortunately, there's no alternative without removing the cats. Keep an eye on your bellhousing as I'm not too sure of the castings strength- especially once it's been damaged. Hope to see you next season.