 It was a bad weekend! |
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 May 22 2005, 06:45 PM
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#1
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Grumpy  Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,722 Joined: 1-January 04 From: Bakersfield CA Member No.: 81  |
Well i will keep it simple.... I blew the motor up in the second session of the day on sat (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)
I just had this motor rebuilt 10T mile's ago (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif) A few rod's went through the Canton pan! I will post some pic's later, but im sure all of you have seen hole's before! Im just in a daze still.........I expected something to happen(do this) just not the motor! I WAS still the fastest guy on the track, turning a 1:37.5 a lap before she went! |
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May 22 2005, 06:49 PM
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#2
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Experienced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,289 Joined: 4-May 04 From: Kenvil, NJ Member No.: 331 |
Ouch... I feel your pain. Just remember, this time you have to build it faster! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif)
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May 22 2005, 11:50 PM
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#3
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Experienced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,015 Joined: 28-December 03 From: Texas Member No.: 55 |
I am very sorry to hear that John. Were there any symptoms?
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May 23 2005, 12:51 AM
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#4
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Nothing says 'I love you.' like a box of Hydroshoks Group: Moderators Posts: 5,284 Joined: 23-December 03 From: Granbury, TX Member No.: 4 |
Yes, please share the conditions when the motor let go.
I am NOT familiar with LT1s at all ... |
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May 23 2005, 01:40 AM
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#5
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Grumpy Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,722 Joined: 1-January 04 From: Bakersfield CA Member No.: 81 |
I was losing power right before she went, but i thought it was the computer pulling the timing back becuase she was running hot, it was about 95+ that day. Than she just popped coming out of 4 which is downhill putting oil all over the tire's into 5 (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) I held on to her through 5 knowing that there was a Z06 behind me that had been trying to keep up. So after i got her straight I pulled off at the turn station at 6, hoping she wouldn't catch fire. It took me about 30 to 45 second's to get out of the car, becuase I could not see the latch style lap belt! But I felt ok becuase I was wearing my 3 layer suit, balaclava, glove's, shoe's and the neck support (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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May 23 2005, 01:59 AM
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#6
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Veteran Member Group: Member Posts: 2,688 Joined: 23-December 03 From: Ft Worth, TX Member No.: 8 |
explain hot. cause my motor ran 250+ all weekend for 4 20-30 minute race's. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)
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May 23 2005, 02:37 AM
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#7
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Chapter 11 Racing Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,166 Joined: 15-February 04 From: Houston, Republic of Texas Member No.: 207 |
sorry you lost your engine.
I don't think I've seen more than 1 rod go through an oil pan at one time before. Have any idea what the failure mode was yet? |
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May 23 2005, 03:00 AM
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#8
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Grumpy Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,722 Joined: 1-January 04 From: Bakersfield CA Member No.: 81 |
Glenn it was about 230+, and i haven't even touched the car yet!
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May 23 2005, 05:05 AM
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#9
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CMCer Group: Moderators Posts: 2,932 Joined: 12-February 04 From: the sticks near VIR Member No.: 194 |
Bummer about the motor John. Soon as you drop another one in it will feel better!
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May 23 2005, 10:55 AM
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#10
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LS1 Inside! / Toolbox / Mechanical Engineer Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,215 Joined: 5-February 04 From: NJ Member No.: 179 |
QUOTE (Glenn98ZM6 @ May 22 2005, 20:59) explain hot. cause my motor ran 250+ all weekend for 4 20-30 minute race's. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) Your water was running that hot? I thought you had a front breather? Why's it running so hot? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) |
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May 23 2005, 12:49 PM
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#11
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Veteran Member Group: Member Posts: 2,688 Joined: 23-December 03 From: Ft Worth, TX Member No.: 8 |
you got me?? we worked all weekend trying to figure it out. 'm not even sure how the motor is still running.
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May 23 2005, 03:45 PM
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#12
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Senior Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,226 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Danville, CA, USA Member No.: 27 |
QUOTE (firehawkclone @ May 22 2005, 21:00) Glenn it was about 230+, and i haven't even touched the car yet! ....yeah that is not "too hot"...I ran the stock motor into the 260's several times when I was having my cooling problems...no problems... now the damn thing is 1/2 taped off and I can't get it to run above 185 in 95 degree heat! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) |
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May 23 2005, 05:01 PM
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#13
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Experienced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,441 Joined: 30-December 03 Member No.: 76 |
This is where I ask what oil you were using..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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May 23 2005, 05:20 PM
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#14
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Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 159 Joined: 30-January 04 From: Johnstown, PA Member No.: 170 |
QUOTE Posted on May 23 2005, 11:01 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is where I ask what oil you were using..... .......................and what rods (stock PowderedMetal?) |
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May 24 2005, 12:00 AM
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#15
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Advanced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 813 Joined: 21-January 04 From: Santa Barbara, CA Member No.: 141 |
I don't want to steal John's thunder, since his problems are much worse than ours, but wee too had a crappy weekend. I'll run down the highlights reel.
A/C didn't work Friday night, so we slept in a sauna, and were going to sleep with the door open (since the window in our room was screwed shut), but the Dessert Inn isn't in the nicest part of town. Saturday at the track, Chris runs her session and I passenge, and the car feels nice (first time out with the rebuilt engine). Our groups are back to back, so we go in, Pit Bitch is there with the tool to adjust the seat, I get in the car and start to put on the harness (for the first time ever), and now its well into the session. But I figure a couple of laps is good for starters. Get to entrance to the hot pits and the car dies and won't fire, and they tell me it's dripping fluids. Push the junk out of the way and find a water leak. Hose clamp on the hard line that comes from the back of the block and goes to the radiator. Fix that, and then I get a full session. The car really is a blast. Plenty of power, it handles better than I thought it would. The M3 doesn't really allow for hanging the rear end out, so I'm not used to that. But it's really fun having the rear step out a tad and knowing it will come back if throttle is maintained. You all probably are well aware of this, but it's new to me. I turned a mid 1:46, which isnt' stellar, as I've done 1:44s in the M3, but I know I have a TON of time I can find. Turns 1, 3, 4, 8, and 9 for sure. I imagine the rest as well, but I can picture getting a lot faster in those turns. Car dies before the parade laps, we flail for a while and find out that the fuse isn't up to running the fuel pump and the fan (new fuse panel and fan, so no surprise that there are issues). Fight some intermittent problems of the car dieing for no reason Saturday. Park the junk and hang out at the track, then back to the hotel, where I get a little lit and get progressively more irate with the hotel staff, as the A/C still ain't working, get a new room, head out to Club D.I. and jang out with friends, offer Pit Bitch $200 to ask the chick with the glass eye if she wants to dance, Chris does a tequila shot and gets a little more than tipsy, order some pizza and pass out. Get to the track on Sunday and the car fires right up. Chris takes it for a couple of laps, comes in and the thing won't fire. Pull the hood off and finally find that the water pump is leaking on the optispark and causing lack of spark when the opti gets wet. Hook up the rig and push the thing in there and head for home. We figured out a lot of issues that we expected to rear their heads after 10 months of work on the car. We sweated a ton (did I mention that it was hotter than sin and I forgot to recharge the battery in the trailer so we didn't have any a/c), had some fun, gave my 85 year old grandma, who was out from Florida, a lap in the Camaro, and I got the most expensive 15 minutes of track time that I've ever had. Why do we do this again? Oh yeah, because it's more expensive than crack but twice the fun. Jason |
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May 24 2005, 01:25 AM
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#16
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Grumpy Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,722 Joined: 1-January 04 From: Bakersfield CA Member No.: 81 |
QUOTE (Sam Strano @ May 23 2005, 11:01) This is where I ask what oil you were using..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) M1 0/40 it get's hot here (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool2.gif) And i put brand new PM rod's in with the stock bolt's. I know i should have put ARP's in, but im not running a monster motor here. Just a hot cam and a bore of .30 and bolt on's, header's,CAI, air foil, freebie's and a coil. That's all the mod's i have. On a side note, autozone said they had a short block for $1300 and a 3yr warranty (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif) Blow it up get a new one (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) |
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May 24 2005, 02:00 AM
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#17
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Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 159 Joined: 30-January 04 From: Johnstown, PA Member No.: 170 |
Hmmmm...............
Makes me want to stay away from my 6800 redline solid roller cammed stock long block (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif) Far away -Mobil 1 5w30 since new QUOTE Why do we do this again? Oh yeah, because it's more expensive than crack but twice the fun. Yes! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) The downward spiral continues |
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May 24 2005, 02:40 AM
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#18
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Senior Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,226 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Danville, CA, USA Member No.: 27 |
QUOTE (Sam Strano @ May 23 2005, 11:01) This is where I ask what oil you were using..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ...completely stock motor with 112,000 miles on Mobil 1.....unfortunately....the Mobil 1 came out of the motor the consistency of water....I switched to Redline which DID not do the same.....an EXTREME test to be sure, but a reason I don't use Mobil 1 any more.... |
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May 24 2005, 05:02 AM
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#19
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Advanced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 951 Joined: 2-January 04 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 88 |
QUOTE (firehawkclone @ May 23 2005, 19:25) i put brand new PM rod's in with the stock bolt's. Ouch! Now that may be a problem. All that on the rebuild with $60 cheaper w/ stock rod bolts? They see a lot of stress. I'd be willing to bet it may have been a major contributor to your problems. 230-240 water temps this weekend for me w/ no engine performance issues (bottom breater, stock rad). What are the extended track longevity issues with these temps? Its *only* May here.... Yes, I'm running Redline 15-40wt w/ a 34 row cooler. Post cooler oil temps were about 240 all weekend, thats w/ 99 deg ambient temps (weather.com, wunderground.com) |
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May 25 2005, 12:01 PM
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#20
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Nothing says 'I love you.' like a box of Hydroshoks Group: Moderators Posts: 5,284 Joined: 23-December 03 From: Granbury, TX Member No.: 4 |
I was running with the guage pegged at 250* and the oil temp guage pegged at 300*
Mobil 1 5W40 SUV. But one of my sponsors has stepped and given me a SMOKING deal on AMSOIL 20W50 racing oil. |
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May 25 2005, 01:20 PM
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#21
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Veteran Member Group: Member Posts: 2,688 Joined: 23-December 03 From: Ft Worth, TX Member No.: 8 |
well i use M1 15-50. it saw 250-300+ all weekend w/ 250+ water temp all weekend. the oil still looks new. so new i can still barely read it on the stick. i'll stick w/ M1 for the availability @ your closest wal-mart or parts store. i have no problem w/ RP but the lack of it being commonly available.
i think 0-40 was you 2nd problem w/ the first being $70 ARP rod bolts not being used. i'll upgrade bolts before rods any day. |
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May 25 2005, 03:05 PM
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#22
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Advanced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 647 Joined: 30-December 03 From: Paris, Texas Member No.: 74 |
QUOTE (Glenn98ZM6 @ May 25 2005, 07:20) i'll upgrade bolts before rods any day. In our dirt track motors that run 6500-7500 rpms for extended periods are for the most part stock rod motors with just arp bolts. The bolts are pretty important to the longevity of a stock rod motor. |
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May 29 2005, 03:14 AM
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#23
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Grumpy Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,722 Joined: 1-January 04 From: Bakersfield CA Member No.: 81 |
Well it's taken me a week to jack the car up to get pic's (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/whip.gif) been working ALOT (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif)
Look's like at least 3 rod's went through the pan, some cap's and one rod broke in the middle (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) enjoy http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fir...ne/DSC00638.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fir...ne/DSC00637.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fir...ne/DSC00636.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fir...ne/DSC00632.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fir...ne/DSC00635.jpg |
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May 29 2005, 08:54 AM
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#24
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Veteran Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,511 Joined: 14-November 04 From: Homer Glen, IL Member No.: 540 |
Ouch, that's rough.
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Jun 3 2005, 08:13 PM
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#25
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Advanced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 902 Joined: 27-January 04 From: Magnolia, Tx. Member No.: 160 |
Sorry to hear this man. You'll get it back though. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Jun 26 2005, 03:24 PM
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#26
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Grumpy Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,722 Joined: 1-January 04 From: Bakersfield CA Member No.: 81 |
Well here's some pic's of the BAD and the BETTER (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
The bad! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fir...ne/DSC00690.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fir...ne/DSC00698.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fir...ne/DSC00700.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fir...ne/DSC00701.jpg The better! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fir...ne/DSC00692.jpg And part's for sale (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fir...ne/DSC00693.jpg |
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Jun 26 2005, 05:02 PM
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#27
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FRRAX Owner/Admin Group: Admin Posts: 15,432 Joined: 13-February 04 From: Ohio Member No.: 196 |
John,
Looking through this wreckage: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fir...ne/DSC00690.jpg Every rod bolt I can see is still intact and attached to a portion of the rod (but I'm guessing they are not all there in that picture). Did you find any bolts that were broken? Or, 1/2 of the cap without the matching section of rod? Also, the "body" of that rod (the center) looks blue on the bottom, as if it spun a bearing and heated the rod. I don't think I've ever seen one get hot enough to fail without breaking the bolts, but it's interesting to see the coloring on the lower section of the beam. If a bolt didn't break, I'm guessing you pulled a rod apart under compression braking when the crank runs it up the bore with little compression (because the throttle is closed or it's on the exhaust stroke) to slow it down and no positive pressure to help it change direction, the rod can be pulled apart. I just wondered if we could determine which failure it was. |
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Jun 26 2005, 05:22 PM
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#28
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Grumpy Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,722 Joined: 1-January 04 From: Bakersfield CA Member No.: 81 |
QUOTE (trackbird @ Jun 26 2005, 11:02) John, Looking through this wreckage: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fir...ne/DSC00690.jpg Every rod bolt I can see is still intact and attached to a portion of the rod (but I'm guessing they are not all there in that picture). Did you find any bolts that were broken? Or, 1/2 of the cap without the matching section of rod? Also, the "body" of that rod (the center) looks blue on the bottom, as if it spun a bearing and heated the rod. I don't think I've ever seen one get hot enough to fail without breaking the bolts, but it's interesting to see the coloring on the lower section of the beam. If a bolt didn't break, I'm guessing you pulled a rod apart under compression braking when the crank runs it up the bore with little compression (because the throttle is closed or it's on the exhaust stroke) to slow it down and no positive pressure to help it change direction, the rod can be pulled apart. I just wondered if we could determine which failure it was. I pulled some stuff out of the pan, on a side note all of this was in the pan(except for 2 piece's) when i dropped it. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fir...ne/DSC00708.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fir...ne/DSC00706.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/fir...ne/DSC00707.jpg |
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Jun 26 2005, 07:02 PM
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#29
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FRRAX Owner/Admin Group: Admin Posts: 15,432 Joined: 13-February 04 From: Ohio Member No.: 196 |
I do see one in the top two pics that snapped (rod bolt). So, maybe that was the failure. I questioned it because most of the broken rod parts were still bolted together (and not attached to much else). But, there is one....which is all that's needed.
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Jun 26 2005, 09:53 PM
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#30
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Grumpy Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,722 Joined: 1-January 04 From: Bakersfield CA Member No.: 81 |
Can you change the rod bolt's on a motor without tearing the motor apart?
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Jun 26 2005, 10:02 PM
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#31
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Experienced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,015 Joined: 28-December 03 From: Texas Member No.: 55 |
I know it can be done in an LS1, but if it has many miles, I would probably take the time to put bearings in it at the same time, which should be done out of the car.
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Jun 27 2005, 12:17 AM
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#32
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FRRAX Owner/Admin Group: Admin Posts: 15,432 Joined: 13-February 04 From: Ohio Member No.: 196 |
If they are pressed in bolts (SBC/LT1) you should resize the rods and they must come out. If they are threaded into the rod (from the bottom) and use no nut you should be ok (if you can get to them).
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Jun 27 2005, 12:30 AM
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#33
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Grumpy Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,722 Joined: 1-January 04 From: Bakersfield CA Member No.: 81 |
Well that solve's that!
Well i'll throw the motor in and beat the crap out of it (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) This post has been edited by firehawkclone: Jun 27 2005, 12:31 AM |
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Jul 16 2005, 03:41 AM
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#34
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Grumpy Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,722 Joined: 1-January 04 From: Bakersfield CA Member No.: 81 |
IT'S ALIVE :drive: the motor that is. I am dead tired!
Fired right up......than died (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) becuase of no fuel in the rails. but I turned it over again and it fired right up with instant oil pressure (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) and ran it for 10mins. Time to put on the hood and nose and tiddy up (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) DISASTER! leaking oil out the back of the intake (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif) This post has been edited by firehawkclone: Jul 16 2005, 04:41 AM |
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Jul 16 2005, 12:47 PM
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#35
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Experienced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,289 Joined: 4-May 04 From: Kenvil, NJ Member No.: 331 |
It's always something. Last time I built a motor it started leaking from the back of the motor while I was priming the pump. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rant.gif) You'll get it taken care of... eventually.
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Jul 16 2005, 05:18 PM
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#36
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Grumpy Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,722 Joined: 1-January 04 From: Bakersfield CA Member No.: 81 |
QUOTE (slowTA @ Jul 16 2005, 06:47) It's always something. Last time I built a motor it started leaking from the back of the motor while I was priming the pump. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rant.gif) You'll get it taken care of... eventually. TODAY! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif) |
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