Buying Old Houses, off topic discussion Options

[KeithO]

Mods- this is far off topic and if you feel this is inappropriate, feel free to remove this thread.

I am posting this here because I know that there are alot of intelligent, experienced people on this site beyond playing with f-bodies...

My wife and I signed paperwork for an offer on a house yesterday. The offer is contingent on us selling our house (open house is today!) and I don't know if this will work out. Even so I am thinking ahead.

The house was built in 1900 and is a frame construction. The siding, windows, electrical service, and plumbing was all replaced within the last 5 years. In that same timeframe, the extensive woodwork and stained glass was all restored to a high standard. The first time we visited the house, my wife's reaction was "I love this house but it is too nice for us, we'd ruin it". We have an 11-year-old and a very active 3-year-old. I understand her sentiment all too well.

(As an aside, the bonus here is that the house is about 15 miles from Beaver Run Motorsports Complex and has a 3-car detached garage that has an inside height tall enough for a lift. What a coincidence! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) )

Anyway, I don't know diddley about houses and the offer we have is additionally contingent upon a clean home inspection by a professional home inspector.

Is anyone here knowledgeable about homes and specifically old ones? If so, do you have any advice for me? Is anyone aware of any websites that might specialize in houses like this?

I know that this house is my wife's dream house. I just don't want her waking up from one of those dreams where you show up for school in your pajamas. Hahaha.

[slowTA]

Screw the house, make sure the garage is sound. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)

Seriously though unless the foundation is crumbling, the electrical is a time bomb, the roof is crap, and the plumbing was done by a stoned monkey you should be fine. If everything was recently updated it sounds like the previous owners were planning on making a profit. Most likely they gutted the walls and would have noticed all the old bad stuff (leaks and bad wiring.) At that point it's pretty easy to fix.

Good luck!!

[LT4Firehawk]

Our last house, which we still own and use as a rental property, was built in 1941. Here's some things I'd thoroughly check (or have an inspector check):

Roof: It should only be one layer, and preferably should be preferably less than 7 years old. If it has more than one layer, it'll be hard (or impossible) to get insurance on the house, leading to you having to pay for a new roof immediately. Of course, a leaky roof can also lead to water damage in the walls as well, so you really need to make sure the roof is in good shape.

Electrical: Unless they have completely updated the electrical, you could run into issues down the road. Ours had the electrical updated for much of the house in the last 20 years or so, and is in pretty good shape. Even the part that wasn't updated never gave us too much trouble, but there wasn't anything too major on the old wiring.

Windows: Even if the windows have been replaced, I'd still have someone check the walls/sills around them. With a house that old, it's very possible that there have been leaks and substantial water damage around the windows. Even if the windows have been replaced and look good, there could still be water damage in the walls that was just covered up and not repaired.

Plumbing: If all the plumbing was upgraded you should be ok. Just keep in mind that if there are any original pipes, they'll need to be replaced at some point.

Heat/AC: Has the house been upgraded to central heat/air? If not, you'll probably want to at some point, which will be big bucks. Whether it has or not, keep in mind that old house leak like a screen door, so your heating/cooling budget will need to be much larger than a newer house of equivalent size. Of course, if the house has wood floors and a crawlspace this will somewhat mitigate in the summer as these things will help keep the house cooler.

Anyway, don't be afraid of getting an old house, just keep in mind they usually take more maintenance. Sounds like the one you are looking at has had a lot of work done, though so it shouldn't be as bad.

[CMC #37]

Having done two home sale transactions this last year.... things to look for:

1) Make sure you go on the whole house inspection with your agent. Take notes. You will learn a lot and some things that need to be done that are not required legally are pointed out by a good inspector. Any disasters or even minor problems found can be negotiated in your favor. Also the city may require upgrades that are cost prohibitive to all parties, hopefully not though. On every transaction I have been involved with there has been dry rot and I am in California!

2)Make sure there are NO permits outstanding or missing on the home! In the case of my "new" 18 year old home recently we had an AC compressor go out after one year of living here, so went to the city to get a permit to dispose of the old one (hazardous materials) and install the new one. While hubby was at the permit office they discovered the swimming pool permit had expired and was never finalized! We were able to track down this to the first owner (we are third), who installed the pool himself. Fortunately everything checked out, however, it could have been a disaster if the pool was not built to code. DO NOT rely on your agent or the process to cover this for you! All it takes is a simple phone call to the appropriate building and permit office. Disclosure is supposed to make the previous owners liable for stuff like this, however, my lawyer said getting them to pay and the cost legal action may not have made it worth it.

3) Health hazards, especially concerning a child. Paint - Make sure it is not lead-based. If it is 20 or so years old it may be. Plumbing - make sure lead pipes are tested within health standards if they are still in the house. Same 20 year old age concern as paint. My last house I lived in had lead pipes and was built in 1987, each year the city would test the water and it was fine. Finally asbestos, often used in ceilings.

4) Asthetic concerns like noise. Any traffic noise, airplanes? What is is it like at night? Getting my home I live in now the inspection had to disclose we were less than two miles from an airport. Fortunately it is a little plane airport and they do not do much night flying.

5) Make sure everything works - some things not inspected by the whole house inspection may not get checked. In our case we were told the whole house vacuum worked. Well, it didn't and it was expensive to fix.

Best of luck to you Keith! This is where your agent earns their comission!

[jensend]

A contrasting view from a former trim and finish carpenter. My wife and i bought a turn of the century house in good condition in 1982. Our plan was to "restore " it to its original full Victorian splendor. I have skills and tools and had both a fulltime and part-time job. We redid the plumbing, the roof, the bathroom, the electrical service and paid a paltry $4500 to have someone else paint the house. During this lengthy process our two sons were born. We quickly realized that we could devote the bulk of our time and resources to completing and maintaining the house or we could spend our time and money raising our kids. We chose our kids ( a decision which I, as a cancer survivor, am truly glad to jave made). Presently both boys live at home ( one is in college) and I have recently retired. The house, while in decent shape continues to need regular maintenance and repairs . We do them on a strictly priority basis. My time and family are valuable to me. However "beautiful" a house may be, it's only a building. It was here before me and will likely be here after I'm gone. If I had it to do over, I'd buy a simple, lo0w maintenance home and spend all of my time and most all of my money on my family. Let someone else sacrifice their earnings and time with family to impress others or get a spead in "House Beautiful". Personally, as soon as the boys are on their own, I'm selling this place and using its equity to enjoy whatever time is left and help my kids with their college loans.

[KeithO]

Good responses and thanks. First off, I forgot to mention, the roof was also replaced within the last 5 years and I have already been in the attic. It appears to be single layer - when you say single layer, I assume you are saying that someone didn't install a "new" roof over an existing one, right?

The furnace appears to be 10+ years old and it is hot water-based heat. This will be one thing to check on with the inspector that I hire. Since it is water-based heat, there is no central A/C though there are two window units in the house.

I plan on trying to find a home inspector that specializes in old houses. I am hoping that such a category exists.

Believe it or not, we are "downsizing" by buying this house. I am fed up with the suburbs and the ridiculous tax escalation so we are moving to a small town about 40 miles away. I figure the extra $$$ can go to paying someone else to fix things around the house and car parts!!!

BTW - No offers on our house as a result of the open house. I guess I need to be patient and let fate decide what happens.

...anyone wanna buy a house? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Rob Hood]

Don't forget to check for mold and asbestos. Those items can cause respiratory problems if you aren't careful. And check your state's requirements for home inspectors. Make sure the person or firm is reputable and stands by their work. My inspector missed the wiring SNAFU in my VA home's garage, and I had to repair that at my cost when I sold the house less than 2 years later.

Our previous home purchase was an 11-year old structure in VA that the seller had not taken very good care of (and he was a plumber by trade, to boot). Needless to say, we had several repairs to make, and combined with a couple of minor upgrades that we made, we found out that neither of us were all that inclined to build any sweat equity. Consequently, our current home is a new build. If we have to move again, we will buy new or less than 5 year-old home. I want my time to be focused on a race car, not home repair.

[z28jeff]

Everyone has done a good job of covering the basics here. In fact I can't think of much else to add. But if you want to hear about my experiences some time, give me a call. My house was built in 1889 and has a 3ft thick sandstone/mud foundation. In the last 10 years, I've gutted every room, added all new wiring, recepticals, switches, and light fixtures, insulation, drywall, flooring, and added on a whole new section. In 95,(when we first started on the house) it didn't even have plumbing. (an old outhouse still stands along the woodsline today). We had to add not only all the plumbing, but a septic tank as well. A new transformer was put on the pole, and a new service entrance installed. Along with a new 200A panel. After I removed all the ugly old insulbrick, I found the original wood siding to be in great shape. So I painted the whole exterior, made trim for the windows, and built front and back porches. There are probably another dozen things I'm not remembering or just don't feel like typing. But the point I'm trying to make is, if you have a question about an old house... I could probably help as I've allready been there and done that.
Oh yeah, I do HVAC for a living. So I can help there too. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[KeithO]

Jeff, I think you and I are going to be GOOD friends! LOL!

[BigEnos]

Hot water heat is great, both houses I grew up in had it. It is a drag because it makes adding central air a bit more difficult, but if you have an attic and a basement you can still add it without crapping up the inside of the house with ductwork (well, not too much anyway).

I have a masonry construction (stone) house built in 1954. Not that old, but it was built with almost no insulation. The last couple winters have kicked my butt with fuel costs so I decided to tear out the plaster in the 2nd floor (it's a cape cod) so I can insulate. Some of the first floor has been remodeled and insulation was added, but upstairs is as it was built. Just starting the project so not much to add other than it gets much easier after the first hammer swing! Before that you still have the option of doing nothing. After you start tearing stuff out, you're like (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) "what the hell am I doing?!?". I'll be much happier after the demo is done and I can get on with the "fixing".

I'd see if the current owners have pictures showing what was done during the rehab. If they upgraded the electrical, I'm guessing that they opened up the walls and in the process should have fixed anything else they found. But who knows? Have the pictures available when the home inspector comes. That might help the inspector figure out what was or was not done (right or wrong).

Old houses definitely require more work, but personally I think it's worth it.

Good luck!