Juan Pablo to Nascar...! Options

[beuke23]

I came back from the kitchen from making myself iced coffee, and there's JPM and Ganassi talking to the press.

Holy cow. I remembered when Jacques couldn't find a ride and considered NASCAR.

Just stunned me.

[Rob Hood]

I was quite surprised too. Maybe Jeff Gordon could go to F1? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Might be a fair trade.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

http://www.thatsracin.com/mld/thatsracin/15001283.htm

Can't wait for the F1 wags to start bashing NASCAR, JPM, Ganassi.

I really enjoy both series, but IMO, F1 has a very high "snob" factor compared to any other racing series on the planet.

I was quite surprised at the mention of the technology (in the link above) coming from F1 to NASCAR. It's still a pushrod V8, carburetor, and 4-speed transmission, among other antiquated items, being used on the race car. Perhaps its all the precision manufacturing that's going into the V8, carb, trans, et al.

And that Car of Tomorrow...is not.

[AndyJ]

I was quite surprised at the mention of the technology (in the link above) coming from F1 to NASCAR. It's still a pushrod V8, carburetor, and 4-speed transmission, among other antiquated items, being used on the race car. Perhaps its all the precision manufacturing that's going into the V8, carb, trans, et al.

And that Car of Tomorrow...is not.

I thought it was a savvy move. NASCAR racers stay in the seat longer - 40+ is not unusual and now Bill Elliot ( my all time classy favorite) is talking about full time in 2007 so your earning potential is increased. NASCAR is all about control and fan satisfaction. Helton et al want to control ALL factors to keep the field as level as possible. Close racing = exciting = fan approval. That is why you don't see computer controlled engines -- NASCAR can't police it. And the car of tomorrow will again narrow the field -- it is gonna happen.

One of the drivers --- maybe Gordon or Burton was asked where they would like to see a new NASCAR venue and the quick reply was New York City. I bet we see a 10 month season before it is over. It is already the longest racing season as it is.

[killer_bluebird]

I thought it was a savvy move. NASCAR racers stay in the seat longer - 40+ is not unusual and now Bill Elliot ( my all time classy favorite) is talking about full time in 2007 so your earning potential is increased.

I agree, I mean the announcer on tv talk about Michael like he is a dinosaur and he is 2nd in the F1 standings and a serious contender now the ferrari started to get their technology sorted out.

I bet we see a 10 month season before it is over. It is already the longest racing season as it is.

True, but I think unless they move all the Spring and Fall races to southern states weather is going to be a big factor. Unless they start racing in the rain like, all the road racers. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) If they can develop wet tires to run in F1 cars, and Grand Am prototypes?, I guarantee Goodyear or whoever can make an oval wet tire that can be competitive for Nascar.

[Teutonic Speedra...]

Unless they start racing in the rain like, all the road racers. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) If they can develop wet tires to run in F1 cars, and Grand Am prototypes?, I guarantee Goodyear or whoever can make an oval wet tire that can be competitive for Nascar.

That'd be cool but tough. Imagine the spray coming off 43 cars at seperated by inches....not quite sure racing in rain will ever happen on ovals.

[LT4Firehawk]

Gordon was talking to the commentators during the F1 race at Indy, and basically said he'd love to do F1, but only if he could get on with a competitive team, which will never happen.

[02midevil]

Wasn't Jeff at Monaco also? But then again everyone was at Monaco.

Nascar is a good place for him with his slightly agressive style which is very risky in open wheel cars. I can't even imagine being on that BMW team or team manager with Ralph Schmacher and Montoya. One crying about how poor the car is and failing to finish and the other always taking himself out from being aggressive.

It will be interesting if Montoya makes any friends in Nascar or they leave him out.

[beuke23]

I was quite surprised at the mention of the technology (in the link above) coming from F1 to NASCAR. It's still a pushrod V8, carburetor, and 4-speed transmission, among other antiquated items, being used on the race car. Perhaps its all the precision manufacturing that's going into the V8, carb, trans, et al.

Me too. Wonder which specific technology made it to NASCAR; aero, brakes, manufacturing as mentioned...

I was quite surprised too. Maybe Jeff Gordon could go to F1?

I remembered 3 years ago he said he'd love to do it, only if he were to do it right, meaning starting the F1 career like 10 years ago. And Sir Williams said at the time Gordon will be too expensive to retain.

That'd be cool but tough. Imagine the spray coming off 43 cars at seperated by inches....not quite sure racing in rain will ever happen on ovals.

These guys crash when it's nice and bright out. Bring the factors of rain, the races will probably last half a day!

[killer_bluebird]

That'd be cool but tough. Imagine the spray coming off 43 cars at seperated by inches....not quite sure racing in rain will ever happen on ovals.

These guys crash when it's nice and bright out. Bring the factors of rain, the races will probably last half a day!

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/lmao.gif) true, but then again it all has to do with the tire design. I mean what are the causes or most wrecks? stupidity, and blown or cut tires. Stupidity and Cut tires due to contact or debris are not going to be eliminated but blown tires are a factor of the tire design. Goodyear design these tires to fall quickly after 30 or so laps, drivers themselves say that if nascar wanted a tire that would last 300 miles that Goodyear could probably do it, but then the whole idea of pit strategy would be less important and like it or not Fans like wrecks, they pay just to see them. So there little that will change in that respect.

[Crazy Canuck]

... but IMO, F1 has a very high "snob" factor compared to any other racing series on the planet.
...

I'm pretty sure this also contributed... lots of BS and fame around the F1... the "pentacle" of racing.
Should be fun to see what happens... i might actually start seeing a bit more NASCAR (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I've been seeing a bit over the last year... and i'm starting to like it.
Should be fun to have new blood and some names i recognise.

Also if the #24 (Jeff Gordon, I think) would join the F1.... I think it would be good for the sport as well as help the F1 enthousiasm go higher in the US.
If anything, it would be a great marketing scheme.

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/lmao.gif) ... and like it or not Fans like wrecks, they pay just to see them. So there little that will change in that respect.

makes me think of hockey... ppl still like to watch games where there are good fist fights. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif)

[beuke23]

makes me think of hockey... ppl still like to watch games where there are good fist fights. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif)

Hockey rules!

[LT4Firehawk]

Just heard last night, now Danica is thinking about going to NASCAR next year. Apparently her current contract ends this year and she's looking at that as an option.

[trackbird]

Just heard last night, now Danica is thinking about going to NASCAR next year. Apparently her current contract ends this year and she's looking at that as an option.

You're a little behind (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) . This one started yesterday.....

http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=7909&hl=

[rmackintosh]

.....sigh.....I hate to see it.....not a big F1 fan.....and JPM has been unhappy there for a while...but NASCAR.
..why....oh yeah....money

[trackbird]

.....sigh.....I hate to see it.....not a big F1 fan.....and JPM has been unhappy there for a while...but NASCAR.
..why....oh yeah....money

I have to admit that I'd drive one if they were paying me to do so. Hell, I might drive one for free (for a while). I don't like watching it, but running anything that goes 200 mph sounds like a good time to me.

[rmackintosh]

Oh, don't get me wrong....you throw that much money at me and I WOULD DRIVE one of them things....I could even hit Cruise Control and sleep through most of it..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

That is the problem with NASCAR, and most professional sports these days in my opinion....too much is "forgiven" because of the money involved.....a high school kid skips college to go to the NBA and its always...."you can't blame the kid.....he is just doing what's right for him/his family...." JPM in NASCAR is similar...his talents are wasted driving in circles with a bunch of good 'ol boys....although they are slowly getting replaced with "real" drivers....but "in principle" he should showcase his talents AS A ROAD RACER in some other venue....problem is...the money is in NASCAR, and we all say....." I don't blame him for doing it....:


....sigh....and the circus goes on.....F1 is a circus too.....at least it is more along the lines of Cirque du Soliel and not Circus Vargas!

This post has been edited by rmackintosh: Jul 12 2006, 03:53 PM

[CMC #37]

Now JPM will have to learn to utter "Git r done, and boogity boogity boogity!" (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)

[LT4Firehawk]

I really think JPM would have rather stayed in F1, but nobody was looking to give him a ride for next year. It was even rumored that he offered to drive for free for Mclaren, obviously it was either just a rumor or they weren't interested.

[marka]

Howdy,

JPM in NASCAR is similar...his talents are wasted driving in circles with a bunch of good 'ol boys....although they are slowly getting replaced with "real" drivers

Um, yeah....

So in a little over a year's time then, we should expect JPM to be the champ right? Since he's a "real" driver?

Please.

You don't need to like the format or the series or the marketing, but any one of the Nextel drivers would most likely dominate in any form of auto racing they chose to participate in.

Mark

[AllZWay]

Howdy,

JPM in NASCAR is similar...his talents are wasted driving in circles with a bunch of good 'ol boys....although they are slowly getting replaced with "real" drivers

Um, yeah....

So in a little over a year's time then, we should expect JPM to be the champ right? Since he's a "real" driver?

Please.

You don't need to like the format or the series or the marketing, but any one of the Nextel drivers would most likely dominate in any form of auto racing they chose to participate in.

Mark

Exactly... Alex Zanard was a complete failure on ovals in a stock car. He pretty much was so embarrassed the chose to quit.

Adrian Fernandez recently said in a magazine that anyone that was making the jump better be prepared for a long learning curve. He admitted he was too old to learn to be good.

Paul Tracy hasn't embarrassed himself, but he isn't lighting the Busch serie

[rmackintosh]

Howdy,

JPM in NASCAR is similar...his talents are wasted driving in circles with a bunch of good 'ol boys....although they are slowly getting replaced with "real" drivers

Um, yeah....

So in a little over a year's time then, we should expect JPM to be the champ right? Since he's a "real" driver?

Please.

You don't need to like the format or the series or the marketing, but any one of the Nextel drivers would most likely dominate in any form of auto racing they chose to participate in.

Mark

Have you seen a NASCAR race at Sears Point in person?....no.....on TV maybe?....2/3's of the field is EMBARASSING.....all week long the "back packers" whine like a bunch of second graders whose cookies and milk got taken away because they have to ACTUALLY make a right hand turn for Heaven's sake...and shifting they talk like it is a FOREIGN concept or something....forget about threshold braking.....it is lost on them. I do give NASCAR credit at Sears for one thing.....10 years ago....98% of the drivers were pathetic, with only 2 or 3 respectable cars....today, there are maybe 10-15 respectable drivers......out of 42.

I have been to probably 95% of the NASCAR races at Sears Point since they came here...and seen them all.....

....you REALLY think "any one of the Nextel drivers would dominate in any form of auto racing"? I would like to see Kyle Petty win ANY type of motorsport event....be it Nextel or remote control cars for that matter...much less a local SCCA regional championship.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif)

There is no doubt that Nextel drivers are skilled "drivers".....most likely I wouldn't even be able to touch the slowest of them at what they do....as you have noted JPM and many others WAAAAAAY better than me have tried and failed. However, a NASCAR race is a VERY, VERY specialized format/skill set. No REAL braking, shifting, or even steering much....it is a test of how one can master that LIMITED skill set, how much "opportunity" they are given, and for SURE it is a test of endurance....but to say most of the NASCAR drivers would be champions at ANY form of motorsport is being VERY much biased.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[rmackintosh]

Howdy,

JPM in NASCAR is similar...his talents are wasted driving in circles with a bunch of good 'ol boys....although they are slowly getting replaced with "real" drivers

Um, yeah....

So in a little over a year's time then, we should expect JPM to be the champ right? Since he's a "real" driver?

Please.

You don't need to like the format or the series or the marketing, but any one of the Nextel drivers would most likely dominate in any form of auto racing they chose to participate in.

Mark

Exactly... Alex Zanard was a complete failure on ovals in a stock car. He pretty much was so embarrassed the chose to quit.

Adrian Fernandez recently said in a magazine that anyone that was making the jump better be prepared for a long learning curve. He admitted he was too old to learn to be good.

Paul Tracy hasn't embarrassed himself, but he isn't lighting the Busch serie

Read my post above....these drivers talents are "wasted" BECAUSE they are complete drivers....they can master left AND right hand turns......they can shift a car to manage a car to it's maximum potential.....they can threshhold brake and find the limit of the car in braking....there is NO DOUBT these and MANY MORE "complete" drivers have failed in NASCAR and WILL CONTINUE to fail. Fernandez....not a real shining example of a road racing stud by the way...was partly correct. NASCAR drivers are BRED into the "limited" format of oval racing....they do 1/4 midgets when they are 4 years old....move to sprints, etc, etc......they learn the "art" of managing a car on the limit while making left hand turns at near full throttle from that young age......(now I have simplified the "art" for arguments sake here).....but the reality is....how is a "classically" trained race car driver who is now 35/40 years old gonna compete with a guy who has been mastering the left turn for 25 years?????

Now, I have admitted that NASCAR drivers have skills...and they ARE impressive driving skills....but to think that many of them could compete on ANY road racing series of note is ludacris.....most of them would fare NO BETTER in road racing than Tracy, Fernandez, etc. have fared in NASCAR....if you think different you are kidding yourself! Now there are exceptions....Gordon(s) and Stewart could probably road race successfully...but, on the other hand there is.....BORIS SAID.....(there, I "said" it.....I LOVE that guy!)

...NASCAR is a "form" of racing IMHO.....but because of its marketing/format/emphasis.....it is more of an "entertainment" than a complete form of racing....I know that "rubs some of you the wrong way", for that I am sorry..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Rob Hood]

Kyle Petty won Watkins Glen in the Grand American Road Racing Series, in a Porsche 911 GT3-R, co-driving with John Andretti, in August of 2001.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp...RANDAM-GRANDCUP

[patred]

Exactly... Alex Zanard was a complete failure on ovals in a stock car. He pretty much was so embarrassed the chose to quit.

Zanardi was also a *complete* failure in F1. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) On the other hand, Montoya has won everywhere he's raced. You can argue that he hasn't lived up to expectations in F1, but he has won races, gotten pole positions, finished in points, etc. Most of the other "road racers" who have jumped to NASCAR don't have nearly the resume Montoya has (CART champ, Indy 500 winner, 7 F1 wins including Monaco).

He seems to be approaching this move with the right attitude. Sure he may not lead from flag-to-flag at the Daytona 500 next year, but my money is on him being more than a also ran.

Pat

[rmackintosh]

Kyle Petty won Watkins Glen in the Grand American Road Racing Series, in a Porsche 911 GT3-R, co-driving with John Andretti, in August of 2001.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp...RANDAM-GRANDCUP

....sigh.....after I posted his name, I remembered that....too bad.....you just nullified my ENTIRE argument.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

You NASCAR zealots are right.....EVERY road racer who has DARED to enter the superior form of racing known as Nextel Cup....for this year at least....has been embarassed beyond belief...

And I now readily admit that EVEN Kyle Petty would be able to DOMINATE F1 were he to stop riding his chopper around the country and focus on the task at hand.....


























....the FACT is guys.....most "road racers" would fail at NASCAR....and at the SAME TIME.....most NASCAR drivers would fail at road racing.....if you imply anything else....you are biased...sorry (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

This post has been edited by rmackintosh: Jul 14 2006, 05:04 PM

[CMC #37]

I'm with Randy on this one...everytime I hear that Cup drivers are at the "pinnacle of motorsport" - well, I have to laugh! They are at the pinnacle of their motorsport, yes. It irks me thought that there are millions of folks out there that do think that NASCAR is the be all and end all of racing in terms of skills. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rant.gif)

[rpoz-29]

I believe that most professional racers can perform well in any venue they set their minds to, if they're from NHRA, NASCAR, SCCA, SCORE, IRL, USAC, F1, etc. Regardless of their venue, they have all learned to control their vehicles. And I would think that that would go a long way in crossing over. That and a ton of humility, and patience. Just my .02 (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[marka]

Howdy,

I believe that most professional racers can perform well in any venue they set their minds to, if they're from NHRA, NASCAR, SCCA, SCORE, IRL, USAC, F1, etc. Regardless of their venue, they have all learned to control their vehicles. And I would think that that would go a long way in crossing over. That and a ton of humility, and patience. Just my .02 (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Yes, I'd agree.

I'd also add that I'd expect the venue that paid the best would likely be where the best talent would accumulate.

And last I checked, NASCAR paid the best of anyone else in the USA.

Mark

[CMC #37]

I believe that most professional racers can perform well in any venue they set their minds to, if they're from NHRA, NASCAR, SCCA, SCORE, IRL, USAC, F1, etc. Regardless of their venue, they have all learned to control their vehicles. And I would think that that would go a long way in crossing over. That and a ton of humility, and patience. Just my .02 (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Even Gordo admits he needs time and training if he were to go F1. I think he can do well anywhere in racing, however, I believe he is in a very small sub-set of professional racers that could do well anywhere they go in racing. This is part of the reason why the "hired guns" come out to Sears Point for the NASCAR races each year. Not all teams have the resources to train their Cup guys to road race, and even then it may not pay off for many of them.

[rpoz-29]

I agree with you. And dollars are why JPM, Danica (maybe), Robbie Gordon, (off-road), Hornish is said to be considering, Tony Stewart, are there, or considering going. The dollars are there because of NASCAR's publicity mill. And air time. Personally, when they go to their "Car of Tomorrow" crap, I feel the series will sink, or soar. I'd rather watch re-runs of the run-offs, or the Paris-Dakar myself.

[rmackintosh]

Howdy,

I believe that most professional racers can perform well in any venue they set their minds to, if they're from NHRA, NASCAR, SCCA, SCORE, IRL, USAC, F1, etc. Regardless of their venue, they have all learned to control their vehicles. And I would think that that would go a long way in crossing over. That and a ton of humility, and patience. Just my .02 (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Yes, I'd agree.

I'd also add that I'd expect the venue that paid the best would likely be where the best talent would accumulate.

And last I checked, NASCAR paid the best of anyone else in the USA.

Mark

If what you guys say is true, then the road racers mentioned before.....most of them accomplished and ALL of them professional....would have been able to work their way into NASCAR. They don't BECAUSE of the reasons I mention above. Motorsports, like all sports, are becoming increasingly specialized. The guys who ACTUALLY have a shot at crossing over are FEW AND FAR BETWEEN. Problem is....NASCAR is so popular/competitive....that when a road racer trying to "extend his driving years" enters NASCAR he is rarely, if ever given the best opportunity/equipment/etc....so THAT combined with his/her learning curve dooms him/her.

Yes unfortunately NASCAR is "where the money is" and it CONTINUALLY sucks talented drivers away from other, IMHO complete, forms of racing. You think some of these drivers would even be in NASCAR if the $$$ weren't there????? Tony Stewart started in IRL, and early on made it clear he thought open wheel was for him and was more for a "driver's driver". He switched for the almighty dollar. I could name many, many more if I took the time to look into it. Boris Said is another example...as much as I love the guy...he has "changed himself" to try and get in on the NASCAR gravy train. Listening to him now in interviews, he has gone super politically correct, and become almost worshipful of the drivers and the sport....if you followed him you know that is not REALLY him....he used to basically call Paul Gentillozi a worthless hack and a goon in pre race interviews in Trans-AM, and then go bang the shit out of him on the track for an hour or so (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ....he is changing his style to fit in the NASCAR mold...and THAT is sad...only redemption is to go out and WIN! He has made good strides in only a few races with NO BIG help....

[Jeff97FST/A]

I was reading one of those 10-question interviews with Boris on NASCAR dot com. Instead of racing 45 weekends a year, with many overseas, he now has an office for his NASCAR team 2 minutes from his home, spends more time with his son.

10. What have you learned about yourself in the last year?

Said: Since my son was born, I think I've really re-prioritized my life. Before, the only thing that was important to me was trying to race, trying to race, trying to race -- as many races as I could.

And now, everything I do is more for my family. I try to earn more money and try to be better at racing, hopefully to give my son opportunities that I never had.

Can't blame the guy for going for the money.



As for JPM and Danica, NASCAR has a big push toward "diversity", one time headed my Magic Johnson (no kidding). That is probably sweetening the deal for these two as well.

[rmackintosh]

Can't blame the guy for going for the money.

Yes I can......and no I can't.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)

Like I have said before......I am SO VERY TIRED of hearing "you can't blame the guy for going for the money...."

You hear it when high school kids go pro in the NBA even though most of them aren't ready physically, mentally, emotionnally, etc......what has it done for the sport.....not much IMHO....I don't watch the NBA any more because it is full of guys more concerned about image and money than "the game".....every other sport has its own similar story....

That is why a once avid sports guy like me barely watches pro sports at all any more....I watch Hockey...and it is heading that way quickly.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ....and I watch college.....but we all know the crap that goes on there "in the name of money".....

Can I blame Boris....hell no....(his kid is cute by the way....a true mini-Boris)....but I don't like it......nor will I ever.....



















Of course, if NASCAR offered me 10% of what most of those guys make I would be putting on a drivers suit 24/7 like the biggest goof there and "talkin' the talk" real quick...... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

[Jeff97FST/A]

Only reason I say you can't blame Boris for taking the money is we all know he's paid his dues. Boris is getting his just reward.

What burns my *** is the kids like Kyle Busch (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)

Don't get me wrong. I completly agree with you Randy on the high school kids in the NBA - I don't even like when they leave college early. I'm sure if you were to talk to my wife you'd know how much that stuff bugs me (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[Rob Hood]

[quote]Tony Stewart started in IRL, and early on made it clear he thought open wheel was for him and was more for a "driver's driver". He switched for the almighty dollar. [/quote]

Stewart was in ovals long before NASCAR - so what's the difference? I smell bias...elitist... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/bs.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[quote] Boris Said is another example...as much as I love the guy...he has "changed himself" to try and get in on the NASCAR gravy train. Listening to him now in interviews, he has gone super politically correct, and become almost worshipful of the drivers and the sport....if you followed him you know that is not REALLY him....he used to basically call Paul Gentillozi a worthless hack and a goon in pre race interviews in Trans-AM, and then go bang the shit out of him on the track for an hour or so ....he is changing his style to fit in the NASCAR mold...and THAT is sad...only redemption is to go out and WIN! He has made good strides in only a few races with NO BIG help....[/quote]

So, Boris calls Gentillozi names, and then goes out and "bangs the s**t" out of him...thought that type of driving was for the "talentless" drivers in NASCAR... and what's wrong with being a nice guy? Bobby Labonte and Mark Martin (both accomplished road racers within the NASCAR venue) have been quite successful without using the "chrome horn." Beating and banging have gone on in nearly all forms of motorsports. NASCAR does not have the corner of the market on that. I've even seen PT do it in CART/Champ Car/whatever they call their series this week.

[/quote]Of course, if NASCAR offered me 10% of what most of those guys make I would be putting on a drivers suit 24/7 like the biggest goof there and "talkin' the talk" real quick...... [quote]

There have been plenty of "other" drivers in NASCAR ("other" meaning those who "ain't from 'round here"). Lorentzen, McGriff, to name a few. However, nobody "talks the talk" because it sounds so funny to hear "other" people try to sound (dare I say it) NORMAL. I don't hear "Southernese" out of Robby or Jeff Gordon, Ron Hornaday, Jimmie Johnson, or Kevin Harvick (all Californians I might add). (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (sorry, I had to "bow up" on that one (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) )

Dang Randy, I'm surprised you can see out your rear view mirror in the morning when you're backing up, because the CHIP on your shoulder is soooo big!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

NASCAR continues to prove PT Barnum right, every day (there's a sucker born every minute). NASCAR has been incredibly effective in marketing its product, which is entertainment first, racing second.

If you want to be upset at somebody for essentially handing NASCAR billions and billions of fan dollars, try Tony George. IMO, he destroyed open-wheel racing (oval and road) for EVERYONE. Something about wanting an American car (started with Olds 4.0 Aurora engine, now it's a HONDA...) because open-wheel racing beginning to look/sound/feel like F1 (too many road races/street races on the schedule...) http://www.netaxs.com/people/gg1/race/cartirl.htm

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a NASCAR cheerleader - in fact, I view them (NASCAR the sanctioning body) as the "enemy" since they are the ones who write the rules and the racers must attempt to "interpret" them when building the cars. I also really wish the cars were still "stock," or at least to a much greater extent than now (not at all...) That's why I like the Speedvision WC cars so much, even if they allow foreign makes. At least you can recognize the car without having to read the bumper (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rant.gif)

I'm not picking on you Randy, just trying to get you to see the light a little differently. I wished NASCAR had more road races without adding to the schedule, but they are a tough sell ticket-wise to watch from the stands on a frequent basis compared to the ovals (that's why Bruton Smith eliminated the Carousel from SP for the Cup races). Maybe one day they'll get a couple more on the schedule! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (Elkhart Lake and Road Atlanta come to mind..)

[rmackintosh]

Tony Stewart started in IRL, and early on made it clear he thought open wheel was for him and was more for a "driver's driver". He switched for the almighty dollar.

Stewart was in ovals long before NASCAR - so what's the difference? I smell bias...elitist... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/bs.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Boris Said is another example...as much as I love the guy...he has "changed himself" to try and get in on the NASCAR gravy train. Listening to him now in interviews, he has gone super politically correct, and become almost worshipful of the drivers and the sport....if you followed him you know that is not REALLY him....he used to basically call Paul Gentillozi a worthless hack and a goon in pre race interviews in Trans-AM, and then go bang the shit out of him on the track for an hour or so ....he is changing his style to fit in the NASCAR mold...and THAT is sad...only redemption is to go out and WIN! He has made good strides in only a few races with NO BIG help....

So, Boris calls Gentillozi names, and then goes out and "bangs the s**t" out of him...thought that type of driving was for the "talentless" drivers in NASCAR... and what's wrong with being a nice guy? Bobby Labonte and Mark Martin (both accomplished road racers within the NASCAR venue) have been quite successful without using the "chrome horn." Beating and banging have gone on in nearly all forms of motorsports. NASCAR does not have the corner of the market on that. I've even seen PT do it in CART/Champ Car/whatever they call their series this week.

Of course, if NASCAR offered me 10% of what most of those guys make I would be putting on a drivers suit 24/7 like the biggest goof there and "talkin' the talk" real quick......

There have been plenty of "other" drivers in NASCAR ("other" meaning those who "ain't from 'round here"). Lorentzen, McGriff, to name a few. However, nobody "talks the talk" because it sounds so funny to hear "other" people try to sound (dare I say it) NORMAL. I don't hear "Southernese" out of Robby or Jeff Gordon, Ron Hornaday, Jimmie Johnson, or Kevin Harvick (all Californians I might add). (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (sorry, I had to "bow up" on that one (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) )

Dang Randy, I'm surprised you can see out your rear view mirror in the morning when you're backing up, because the CHIP on your shoulder is soooo big!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

NASCAR continues to prove PT Barnum right, every day (there's a sucker born every minute). NASCAR has been incredibly effective in marketing its product, which is entertainment first, racing second.

If you want to be upset at somebody for essentially handing NASCAR billions and billions of fan dollars, try Tony George. IMO, he destroyed open-wheel racing (oval and road) for EVERYONE. Something about wanting an American car (started with Olds 4.0 Aurora engine, now it's a HONDA...) because open-wheel racing beginning to look/sound/feel like F1 (too many road races/street races on the schedule...) http://www.netaxs.com/people/gg1/race/cartirl.htm

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a NASCAR cheerleader - in fact, I view them (NASCAR the sanctioning body) as the "enemy" since they are the ones who write the rules and the racers must attempt to "interpret" them when building the cars. I also really wish the cars were still "stock," or at least to a much greater extent than now (not at all...) That's why I like the Speedvision WC cars so much, even if they allow foreign makes. At least you can recognize the car without having to read the bumper (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rant.gif)

I'm not picking on you Randy, just trying to get you to see the light a little differently. I wished NASCAR had more road races without adding to the schedule, but they are a tough sell ticket-wise to watch from the stands on a frequent basis compared to the ovals (that's why Bruton Smith eliminated the Carousel from SP for the Cup races). Maybe one day they'll get a couple more on the schedule! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (Elkhart Lake and Road Atlanta come to mind..)

...eh....you got all my "examples" a bit off, but I am tired of writing lots on this subject....

My Stewart reference was basically that one of the crown princes of NASCAR basically didn't even want to be in it until the $$$ got involved.....nothing more....

As for Said....he was a clean driver....maybe one of the cleanest....I was refering to his being "NASCARized" and becoming a "talking head" and changing, once again, of the almighty $$$$

If I have a chip on my shoulder for hating what comercialization has done for racing....typified by NASCAR and demonstrated in all sports to some degree....sorry.....I don't like my sports....ESPECIALLY RACING WHICH I TRULEY WILL ALWAYS LOVE....boiled down to a marketing "tactic" and bastardized to the point of entertaining the MOST BASIC fan! The 10 race shootout was the straw that broke the camels back for NASCAR for me.....puhleease!

And by talkin' the talk....I didn't mean to slam our southern brothers....I meant be a "talking head" for whatever corporation would pay me.....

As for NASCAR I will never see the light much differently....I will praise drivers for a skill in a motorsports event, but I will never call them world class drivers.....unless the category is "limited" to oval racing. They are heading SO FAR IN THE WRONG direction I can't even start....marketing over racing, driver focused vs. racing focused, and the MERE IDEA of the "Car of Tomorrow"......(Can I get a PUKE SMILEY please!!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) ).....


....and the chip just gets bigger..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

If you want to be upset at somebody for essentially handing NASCAR billions and billions of fan dollars, try Tony George. IMO, he destroyed open-wheel racing (oval and road) for EVERYONE. Something about wanting an American car (started with Olds 4.0 Aurora engine, now it's a HONDA...) because open-wheel racing beginning to look/sound/feel like F1 (too many road races/street races on the schedule...) http://www.netaxs.com/people/gg1/race/cartirl.htm

FINALLY....something we AGREE ON! Tony George should be taken out and shot....gimme the gun and I will do it myself!

But....the street racing I gotta disagree with ya on.....the coolest race I have been to was the Long Beach Grand Prix...used to go every year.....that place is like a circus....racing, car shows, music shows, parties, girls......oh my!!! I want to go the the SJGP in a few weeks....if I can get free tickets (I don't pay for spectating at races any more.....I find a free way or go with TV) Open wheel cars on ovals are MAYBE 5% more interesting than stock cars on ovals..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)

[Rob Hood]

I'm good with street races (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It was Tony George who didn't want to go road or street racing! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

So - where will JPM finish in his first oval race? 10th or better? Top 20? Seems his release is all but done from Mclaren, just waiting on when to turn him loose on the Cup circuit. Looks like he may debut at Michigan in August.

[rmackintosh]

So - where will JPM finish in his first oval race? 10th or better? Top 20? Seems his release is all but done from Mclaren, just waiting on when to turn him loose on the Cup circuit. Looks like he may debut at Michigan in August.

....oh I doubt very much JPM will do well in NASCAR at all....he seems to be VERY primadonna-ish....which will likely hurt him in several ways

1. He will try to do things "his way" rather than go with an open mind and blank page
2. "The boys" will likely take GREAT PLEASURE in knocking him down a peg because of this
3. Chip Ganassi is a man of little patience

He needs to be MORE like Boris....going in with an "aw shucks....hopefully them guys will lend a poor guy like me a hand.." and be all PC and stuff......not JPM style at all......

First race......he finishes 37th...... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[beuke23]

Damn Randy, don't hold back!

I would say he'd crash on his first race. But I believe he'd make good progress and do well (I hope, anyways. I've never been more excited to see a Nascar race, ever.).

Seems his release is all but done from Mclaren, just waiting on when to turn him loose on the Cup circuit. Looks like he may debut at Michigan in August.

According to Ron Dennis, JPM is still under McLAren's contract till the end of F1 season this year...conflicts with $ponsors and what not...

[rmackintosh]

Damn Randy, don't hold back!

NEVER! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Especially when it comes to my passion.....racing! I do have strong opinions sure.....I love it when NASCAR fans when all else fails calls the debater an "elitist"..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) .....I am FAR from that.....my opinion of F1 is right above NASCAR....barely....for many of the reasons guys have mentioned....the racing typically is poor.....I don't say sucks, because there ARE lots of "technical" racing stuff that is cool to watch....drivers abilities, pit strategies, car configurations, etc....but it is a fan poor series for sure....I just like good "driving"...I will WORK to see it....

I know many will say road courses suck for veiwing and ovals are better because of it....sure...but sometimes easy is not better.....I have hiked myself silly toting a beer cooler and food all over the hills of Sonoma and Monterey to get the PERFECT spot to watch a special turn and how the cars handle it....typically moving 3-4 times a race....it is a P.I.T.A......but WELL WORTH IT! JMNSHO... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[patred]

....oh I doubt very much JPM will do well in NASCAR at all....he seems to be VERY primadonna-ish....which will likely hurt him in several ways

What's the difference between Tony Stewart's personality and Juan Montoya's? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Pat

[rmackintosh]

....oh I doubt very much JPM will do well in NASCAR at all....he seems to be VERY primadonna-ish....which will likely hurt him in several ways

What's the difference between Tony Stewart's personality and Juan Montoya's? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Pat

Tony Stewart is an A$$HAT to the 10th order, no doubt, but at least he would condiscend to talk to you.....I think JPM thinks most people are so much dog crap on the bottom of his shoe......

His attitude is WAY worse than Stewart, and it won't play well with "the boyz" THAT is for sure... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif)

.....gotta admit....even I WANT to see this.....I hope it gives what the NASCAR head office NO DOUBT hopes it gives us.....ANOTHER WWE circus type of "entertainment" and takes the focus off "real" racing..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)