[conemark]

Take a look and see what's on the horizon:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/wp-content/plu...idg=1&idi=1

http://www.leftlanenews.com/wp-content/plu...idg=1&idi=2

http://www.leftlanenews.com/wp-content/plu...idg=1&idi=3

http://www.leftlanenews.com/wp-content/plu...idg=1&idi=4

http://www.leftlanenews.com/wp-content/plu...idg=1&idi=5

http://www.leftlanenews.com/wp-content/plu...idg=1&idi=6

[TrakCar]

Sweet! Looks alot like my next daily driver. (I don't think I'll order the Zebra paint though....lol)

[rmackintosh]

Nice catch.....hard for me to picture much of what the final product will look like from that tho.....seems a bit tall and too high...but that may just be all the garbage attached to it..........

CROSSINGFINGERSANDTOESNOW!

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/drink.gif)

[CMC #37]

Indeed Randy! Those must be the Eddie Van Halen versions! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[loudes13]

Do you guys really like the new Camaro? Seems too big and heavy to me. I'd rather buy a used GTO for less coin, and let someone else take the big depreciation hit.

[CMC #37]

Do you guys really like the new Camaro? Seems too big and heavy to me. I'd rather buy a used GTO for less coin, and let someone else take the big depreciation hit.

I'll like it depending on how it drives. The GTO waddles around like an old lady! Suspension too soft. Good power though, but that alone does not cut the mustard these days!

[00 Trans Ram]

The A-pillar looks large. Could be a sight impairment. The brakes look unchanged - I was really hoping for something either larger or with 4-6 pistons. It does look a bit jacked up, but then again most stock cars do.

I like the general lines, though.

[Teutonic Speedra...]

Doesn't look like something I'll plan to buy. Think I'd rather some used cars than this potentially heavy slug.

[roadracetransam]

I knew we won't be getting the big brakes. We never do.

[y5e06]

.....seems a bit tall and too high...

My guess is those driving pics (high w/ skinny tires) are of the base model V6 version. note the tire/rim size & design on the parked pictures. more along lines of expected Z28 type of styling.

[Blainefab]

Compared to 4th gen:

shorter overhangs front and rear - good for aero mods and PMI

probably longer wheelbase - good

smaller, lighter windshield - good

smaller, lighter hatch glass, unless the camo is covering an extension to the spoiler - maybe good

very short door window openings - bad for quick exit

roof appears deeper at top of door glass - good for tucking halo up there

[roadracetransam]

Compared to 4th gen:

shorter overhangs front and rear - good for aero mods and PMI

probably longer wheelbase - good

smaller, lighter windshield - good

smaller, lighter hatch glass, unless the camo is covering an extension to the spoiler - maybe good

very short door window openings - bad for quick exit

roof appears deeper at top of door glass - good for tucking halo up there

Never looked at it that way. Alan, you are the man! Thinking as a true fabricator!

[slowTA]

There are only a few cars that jump out and smack me as being the perfect looking car. However there are plenty that I find extremely ugly, and this is NOT one of them.

I'm going to have to wait for a test drive before I make any 'I love/hate it' comments. But based on the last pic next to the mustangs it doesn't look that big. The tires don't look like the performance size on the stupidly large 20"+ rims. Right now it is still in the running as my first new car and so is the G8. For that matter so is the new Malibu. At least I've been able to drive the Malibu!! When the time comes I'll have to see which one weighs the least (Camaro I hope), has the most power, is easier to repair, has cheaper tires, has readily available parts, easier to live with, and is optioned the way I want. It wont be an on the show room floor decision. The manual transmission G8 will probably be available in 2009, about the same as the Camaro.

[Rob Hood]

In pictures 3 and 4 the rear brakes appear to be as large as the fronts - maybe not as much swept area on the rear, but overall diameter looks close.

Picture 6 is great because it show ride height comparison to a Mustang. The Camaro sits much lower, but that appears to be a standard Mustang and may not be the best comparison. At least it helps to compare the size of both cars against each other.

All that said, I think the new Challenger is a much more faithful update of its original body than this attempt at reincarnating a 1969 Camaro. I'm on the fence until they come out with a flush-grille, hidden-headlight RS model. Wonder if they will also use a rear spoiler design similar to the 1991-2 Z28; at least that design would allow some rearward vision compared to an updated 1969 spoiler.

Also the greenhouse proportion to the rest of the body size is off. The "chop-top" doesn't look that good to me. Maybe that's because I see more headroom issues...

[patred]

Parked next to those newer Mustangs, it "looks" just a bit smaller, at least sits lower. Although who knows how much it will actually weigh.

It looks more like the latest generation of the Javelin. Not that that's a bad thing. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Pat

This post has been edited by patred: Dec 12 2007, 02:59 AM

[Mean Green Z28]

Yummy! I'm sure as hell gonna get one ... either that or a Z06 'Vette ... lol

[BigEnos]

Nothing I see has changed my opinion. I'm planning to get one after it's been out for a year or so. I have decided that I don't want to buy the first year of any GM product!

[marka]

Howdy,

Are there any real details yet as to expected performance?

Spring/wheel rates, weight, weight distribution, gearing, differentials, wheel options, etc. etc. etc. etc.?

The outside of the car looks nice.

Mark

[dailydriver]

Compared to 4th gen:

shorter overhangs front and rear - good for aero mods and PMI

probably longer wheelbase - good

smaller, lighter windshield - good

smaller, lighter hatch glass, unless the camo is covering an extension to the spoiler - maybe good

very short door window openings - bad for quick exit

roof appears deeper at top of door glass - good for tucking halo up there

How much weight do you figure could be pulled out of these things (not that it will help the F/Stockers out there any)??

[Racer X]

Much less camo in this one ...

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.p...mp;d=1197502270

[Rob Hood]

Hope they paint the mirrors...

[V6RSR]

How about no camoflague at all....

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show...52_162_full.jpg

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show...52_163_full.jpg

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show...52_164_full.jpg

This post has been edited by V6RSR: Dec 13 2007, 05:02 AM

[BigEnos]

Much less camo in this one ...

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.p...mp;d=1197502270

Someone is gonna burn for this one! Looks nice, though. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

[Blainefab]

Compared to 4th gen:

shorter overhangs front and rear - good for aero mods and PMI

probably longer wheelbase - good

smaller, lighter windshield - good

smaller, lighter hatch glass, unless the camo is covering an extension to the spoiler - maybe good

very short door window openings - bad for quick exit

roof appears deeper at top of door glass - good for tucking halo up there

How much weight do you figure could be pulled out of these things (not that it will help the F/Stockers out there any)??

My SWAG is the car will be 200-300# heavier than a 4th gen, maybe half of that increase in steel in the chassis for crashworthiness, and the other half in airbags, electronics and creature comforts. Steel stays, geegaws get tossed, race weight ends up 100-150# more than a 4th gen with similar rules. The smaller front/rear glass will mean less weight loss with Lexan. With a 400hp LS3, IRS and enough rubber it should come off the corners well, but give up some in braking and transitions to the lighter cars. Like I said, tho - just my SWAG.

I do expect the stamped steel IRS control arms to spawn a race in the aftermarket to get shiny powder coated tubular arms into the marketplace, but what we really need is a DIY aluminum forge ;-)

[Sam Strano]

FWIW.... and not sure it will come to anything, but:

I was contacted by GM after Solo Nationals with questions about what the car would need to be a competitive autocross car. Apparently the Mustang got their attention.

Hopefully the act on the information.

[991LE]

FWIW.... and not sure it will come to anything, but:

I was contacted by GM after Solo Nationals with questions about what the car would need to be a competitive autocross car. Apparently the Mustang got their attention.

Hopefully the act on the information.

I've often wondered if auto manufacturers contacted those, such as yourself, on issues like this with upcoming models. This pretty much confirms it...

Jeff

[dailydriver]

Compared to 4th gen:

shorter overhangs front and rear - good for aero mods and PMI

probably longer wheelbase - good

smaller, lighter windshield - good

smaller, lighter hatch glass, unless the camo is covering an extension to the spoiler - maybe good

very short door window openings - bad for quick exit

roof appears deeper at top of door glass - good for tucking halo up there

How much weight do you figure could be pulled out of these things (not that it will help the F/Stockers out there any)??

My SWAG is the car will be 200-300# heavier than a 4th gen, maybe half of that increase in steel in the chassis for crashworthiness, and the other half in airbags, electronics and creature comforts. Steel stays, geegaws get tossed, race weight ends up 100-150# more than a 4th gen with similar rules. The smaller front/rear glass will mean less weight loss with Lexan. With a 400hp LS3, IRS and enough rubber it should come off the corners well, but give up some in braking and transitions to the lighter cars. Like I said, tho - just my SWAG.

I do expect the stamped steel IRS control arms to spawn a race in the aftermarket to get shiny powder coated tubular arms into the marketplace, but what we really need is a DIY aluminum forge ;-)

COOL! Thanks for the educated speculation!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

[dailydriver]

FWIW.... and not sure it will come to anything, but:

I was contacted by GM after Solo Nationals with questions about what the car would need to be a competitive autocross car. Apparently the Mustang got their attention.

Hopefully they act on the information.

This kind of thing is really hopeful (hope giving?) information!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool2.gif)
Maybe we won't need those D.I.Y. aluminum alloy forges that Alan is talking about afterall?? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/gr_grin.gif)

[Crazy Canuck]

FWIW.... and not sure it will come to anything, but:

I was contacted by GM after Solo Nationals with questions about what the car would need to be a competitive autocross car. Apparently the Mustang got their attention.

Hopefully the act on the information.

hope you get involved in the suspension/damping choices

[BigEnos]

Sounds like GM Performance will be mounting a challenge to F-stock autocross in 2009 or 2010. Hope they don't try to pull the same crap they did with the Z0K GXP solstice in A-stock.

[poSSum]

FWIW.... and not sure it will come to anything, but:

I was contacted by GM after Solo Nationals with questions about what the car would need to be a competitive autocross car. Apparently the Mustang got their attention.

Hopefully the act on the information.

Seriously?!?!?!?!?! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif) After they blew me off for even suggesting they talk to you!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[prockbp]

FWIW.... and not sure it will come to anything, but:

I was contacted by GM after Solo Nationals with questions about what the car would need to be a competitive autocross car. Apparently the Mustang got their attention.

Hopefully the act on the information.

well... are you sworn to secrecy? hearing you say that makes me think that they are simply looking for a sales pitch, especially this late in development

[BigEnos]

FWIW.... and not sure it will come to anything, but:

I was contacted by GM after Solo Nationals with questions about what the car would need to be a competitive autocross car. Apparently the Mustang got their attention.

Hopefully the act on the information.

well... are you sworn to secrecy? hearing you say that makes me think that they are simply looking for a sales pitch, especially this late in development

Late in development? With still over a year until release, it seems like spring/shock/swaybar development (at a minimum) would still be open to change. Especially with the likelihood of multiple packages being available.

[slowTA]

Sam, I'm just hoping you mentioned something about race tires being really expensive for 18"+ rims. I can't imagine what a 22" R compound would cost!!

[prockbp]

FWIW.... and not sure it will come to anything, but:

I was contacted by GM after Solo Nationals with questions about what the car would need to be a competitive autocross car. Apparently the Mustang got their attention.

Hopefully the act on the information.

well... are you sworn to secrecy? hearing you say that makes me think that they are simply looking for a sales pitch, especially this late in development

Late in development? With still over a year until release, it seems like spring/shock/swaybar development (at a minimum) would still be open to change. Especially with the likelihood of multiple packages being available.

1 year before production begins is late to me. Think about the time it takes to create tooling for something like this. A "Strano Z28" with spring/shock/swaybar is exactly the kind of sales pitch I'm talking about... i don't doubt that Sam could set the car up to be faster, but i'm concered about other things....

that's why i ask if he's sworn to secrecy about what they discussed

[dailydriver]

Given the supposed 'portliness' of this thing, I hope that a real, FULL delete 1LE is offered on whatever is going to be the 'Z28' type model. Hopefully they will also offer the option of Konis with valving input from Sam (EVEN if they force one to take double adjustables, and only offer it as a 'trunk kit', along with the other suspension stuff).

BTW; are 'trunk kits' F/Stock legal (were they EVER?), or again was that ONLY legal in Showroom Stock???

This post has been edited by dailydriver: Dec 14 2007, 04:59 PM

[BigEnos]

Given the supposed 'portliness' of this thing, I hope that a real, FULL delete 1LE is offered on whatever is going to be the 'Z28' type model. Hopefully they will also offer the option of Konis with valving input from Sam (EVEN if they force one to take double adjustables, and only offer it as a 'trunk kit', along with the other suspension stuff).

BTW; are 'trunk kits' F/Stock legal (were they EVER?), or again was that ONLY legal in Showroom Stock???

Trunk kits are not solo legal in stock class and would be a disaster for us if that's the only way this stuff is offerred. I'd rather that the 1LE was not "Full Delete" meaning no A/C and other stuff. Make the suspension a line-item and let us choose the rest ourselves. I need to have a car I can drive every day as well as autocross and mandatory A/C delete makes that impossible.

[CMC #37]

I was speaking with a GM "deep throat" the other day and the weight numbers sounded much better than we were guessing here for racing apps. That's all I can say for now. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Rob Hood]

From a production perspective, it's probably more cost-effective for GM to just install upgraded springs/shocks/sway bars rather than remove weight through deleted options. We are a niche in the scheme of things, and niches don't pay the bills, mass-production does. Sad but true. If GM were to offer a low-weight model it would probably come with a higher price tag.

However, it would be nice if the Z28 or SS came with (at least) better shocks and sway bars right off the showroom floor as part of the standard package. I'm not sure how much spring rate GM could get away with and still provide mass- or near mass-production ride quality.

[Sam Strano]

FWIW.... and not sure it will come to anything, but:

I was contacted by GM after Solo Nationals with questions about what the car would need to be a competitive autocross car. Apparently the Mustang got their attention.

Hopefully the act on the information.

Seriously?!?!?!?!?! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif) After they blew me off for even suggesting they talk to you!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'm not sure it was an official call, but clearly someone wants to know and the number I called back was @ GM and it's someone working on the car.

[Sam Strano]

I'm not in a position to tell everyone what we discussed. But in basic terms they were curious what I thought it would take to make a competitive car, and if I'd come back and run one if it was (though I'm doubtful they'd give me one). (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

It was a basic "I'd like to see, this, this, and that". As well as some discussion of why the Mustang is a good autox car, and what the could have done better with the older cars.

[Crazy Canuck]

very interesting (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) too bad my cousin doesn't work there anymore... he used to work on the development of the C6 and C6-z06 chassis several years back.

[dailydriver]

Given the supposed 'portliness' of this thing, I hope that a real, FULL delete 1LE is offered on whatever is going to be the 'Z28' type model. Hopefully they will also offer the option of Konis with valving input from Sam (EVEN if they force one to take double adjustables, and only offer it as a 'trunk kit', along with the other suspension stuff).

BTW; are 'trunk kits' F/Stock legal (were they EVER?), or again was that ONLY legal in Showroom Stock???

Trunk kits are not solo legal in stock class and would be a disaster for us if that's the only way this stuff is offerred. I'd rather that the 1LE was not "Full Delete" meaning no A/C and other stuff. Make the suspension a line-item and let us choose the rest ourselves. I need to have a car I can drive every day as well as autocross and mandatory A/C delete makes that impossible.

Point(s) taken and understood. I was just going by all of the fear and loathing concerning the speculative mass of the 5th gens and thinking that every little bit helps. Hopefully, GM will up the power enough to cover the weight gains, but that will only help us 'left and righters' so much (launching off of apexes). I'm sure we would all rather have less mass, lower in the platform than more power to try and compensate for girth.
Yes, the trunk kits ARE a BAD idea!! Like you said let the good suspension be a separate line item. (EVEN stand alone from any 1LE package!)

Sadly, like Rob H. above has stated, we (especially both Showroom Stock wheel to wheelers, and F/Stock axers who would want a full delete/no options 1LE) are an extremely small niche segment of the total market. So yes, it would probably cost GM less to just bolt in different suspension items rather than to delete standard features for weight savings. They could offer a full delete 'club sport' option for a premium (a la the M3 Club Sports of years/generations past), but I doubt it.
Let's just hope one can still order a 1SC car.

[00 SS]

I'm not sure I'd want a 1SC car. Particularly if I planned to daily drive it. Power windows and locks don't weight much over manual units these days. Manual seats are obviously lighter, maybe they could just make those optional. Little things like fog lights and defrosters can't be more than a few pounds. Things like nav systems, heated seats, heated mirrors and more than 2 air bags would be too much for "stripper" model.

[marka]

Howdy,

Rear seat delete.

Manual sport seats.

Spring/bar/wheel package(s)... Imagine your choice of front spring rates with factory part #'s for springs every 50 in-lbs... :-)

Diff options.

Rear gear options.

Mark

(of course, if they do all that, you'd have most of an ESP car... and the car would be classed in AS. :-)

[Pony Exp.305]

Compared to 4th gen:

shorter overhangs front and rear - good for aero mods and PMI

probably longer wheelbase - good

smaller, lighter windshield - good

smaller, lighter hatch glass, unless the camo is covering an extension to the spoiler - maybe good

very short door window openings - bad for quick exit

roof appears deeper at top of door glass - good for tucking halo up there

Never looked at it that way. Alan, you are the man! Thinking as a true fabricator!

I second that...I have Not look at newer camaro.Interesting on A (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/drink.gif) lan's comment..

[conemark]

Start saving your pennies for big blingin' 20's:
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-chevy-...ts/555812/full/

Interior photos can be seen at:
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-chevy-...y-shots/555822/

as well as the rest at:
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-chevy-...y-shots/555819/

Don't these spy jockey's know we want them to get UNDER the car?

[rmackintosh]

Start saving your pennies for big blingin' 20's:
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-chevy-...ts/555812/full/

Interior photos can be seen at:
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-chevy-...y-shots/555822/

as well as the rest at:
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-chevy-...y-shots/555819/

Don't these spy jockey's know we want them to get UNDER the car?

I like the high tech disguise of duct tape on the wheels..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)

[BigEnos]

Isn't the underneath gonna be a lot like the G8 (but shorter)?

Man, that interior is pretty foul looking. I hope they improve that a bit.

[00 Trans Ram]

My perceptions:

- Interior is yuck; what's with the steering wheel? It looks like the wheel if offset to the top (top of wheel is farther away from column than the bottom). That'll be funky when doing quick steering inputs.
- The side roof may be nice for a roll cage, but that middle cluster (with the mirror attached) is going to be hell to design around! Either the top windshield bar will be bent, or it's going to impede vision out the windshield. (or, choice C - get rid of the pod or whatever it is)
- Only one of those Camaros has the 20s on it (the bottom one). The top one appears to have 18s or so. And, it looks like 17s would fit (check caliper clearance) if needed.

[Racer X]

As I said on another forum....

What the hell am I supposed to do with gauges down there?

[T.O.Dillinder]

The guage set up is a retro of the first gens.
I'll still take a body in white though.

[Racer X]

The guage set up is a retro of the first gens.

Had a first gen. I understand the aesthetic / sentimental reason for it.

Problem is they're useless down there.

[BigEnos]

The guage set up is a retro of the first gens.

Had a first gen. I understand the aesthetic / sentimental reason for it.

Problem is they're useless down there.

I imagine that the DIC will keep you informed of anything that gets stupid (low fuel, high temp, etc). It's certainly not the best place for them, but I think it's something I can deal with. I really don't like that dash, though. I hope the final product looks nicer.

[BigEnos]

Bob says "No more camo!"

http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2008/...the_camaro.html

[prockbp]

http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/2009-chevy...ts/555815/full/

is that an El Camino on the right?

[Rob Hood]

Throw the whole interior out and start over - NOW. That is the most unappealing dash/radio/HVAC combo I've seen. Whoever drew the Aztek apparently got promoted...

Hope they stay with the smooth-finished wheels (no rivets). Easier to keep clean.

Wonder if the ol' slapstick auto-shifter will make a comeback...are the auto shifters even mechanically connected to the transmissions anymore?

Still hoping for a flush grille hidden-headlight RS option too.

[marka]

Howdy,

The dash overall doesn't horrify me all that much, but I do think the "dash boobs" that (presumably) hold the tach/speedo look a little dorky. And the guages down in front of the shifter is certainly putting style over function. Can't say I like that much, though I think they look fine down there.

Mark

[nape]

http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/2009-chevy...ts/555815/full/

is that an El Camino on the right?

That's a Holden Ute.

[Todd]

unfortunately they let the US designers have control of the interior design. cheap and crude. its okay in my $1000 3rd gen, but not in a $30K car. guess thats why I bought a snaab, my money still sorta goes to GM. pretty much had to resort to saab to get a 4dr GM sedan with a manual too...but thats another rant.

[BigEnos]

unfortunately they let the US designers have control of the interior design. cheap and crude. its okay in my $1000 3rd gen, but not in a $30K car. guess thats why I bought a snaab, my money still sorta goes to GM. pretty much had to resort to saab to get a 4dr GM sedan with a manual too...but thats another rant.

I think the CTS's interior was designed by an American and it looks better than anything it competes with IMO. The Malibu, Aura, Solstice, Sky, and trucks all look great too. I think GM will ultimately put a nice interior in it, I'm not too hung up on a preproduction car.

[rmackintosh]

unfortunately they let the US designers have control of the interior design. cheap and crude. its okay in my $1000 3rd gen, but not in a $30K car. guess thats why I bought a snaab, my money still sorta goes to GM. pretty much had to resort to saab to get a 4dr GM sedan with a manual too...but thats another rant.

I think the CTS's interior was designed by an American and it looks better than anything it competes with IMO. The Malibu, Aura, Solstice, Sky, and trucks all look great too. I think GM will ultimately put a nice interior in it, I'm not too hung up on a preproduction car.

I agree. While the pics of that interior SCARE me with its ugliness.....I think the new stuff put out by GM is AMAZING! I went to the auto show and was stunned by the interior in the Malibu! I don't think I have EVER thought a GM car had a sweet interior before that car! "Serviceable" interiors yes, but NEVER impressive. If they follow suit in future cars, it will be a HUGE improvement.

[QUASAR]

unfortunately they let the US designers have control of the interior design. cheap and crude. its okay in my $1000 3rd gen, but not in a $30K car. guess thats why I bought a snaab, my money still sorta goes to GM. pretty much had to resort to saab to get a 4dr GM sedan with a manual too...but thats another rant.

I think the CTS's interior was designed by an American and it looks better than anything it competes with IMO. The Malibu, Aura, Solstice, Sky, and trucks all look great too. I think GM will ultimately put a nice interior in it, I'm not too hung up on a preproduction car.

We're what, a year or less away from production... theres no major changes happening. All the tooling is done. Thats what the interior will look like. Big ol dorky holes for tach and speedo. Not really a fan but ohwell. We'll see how it drives. I'll take an SS w/ SPS option code (strano performance suspension) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[BigEnos]

unfortunately they let the US designers have control of the interior design. cheap and crude. its okay in my $1000 3rd gen, but not in a $30K car. guess thats why I bought a snaab, my money still sorta goes to GM. pretty much had to resort to saab to get a 4dr GM sedan with a manual too...but thats another rant.

I think the CTS's interior was designed by an American and it looks better than anything it competes with IMO. The Malibu, Aura, Solstice, Sky, and trucks all look great too. I think GM will ultimately put a nice interior in it, I'm not too hung up on a preproduction car.

We're what, a year or less away from production... theres no major changes happening. All the tooling is done. Thats what the interior will look like. Big ol dorky holes for tach and speedo. Not really a fan but ohwell. We'll see how it drives. I'll take an SS w/ SPS option code (strano performance suspension) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Just because the "interior is done" doesn't mean this car has the "done interior". I'm not saying it won't be similar, but it's impossible to tell at what point in the development this mule received its interior.

[Todd]

unfortunately they let the US designers have control of the interior design. cheap and crude. its okay in my $1000 3rd gen, but not in a $30K car. guess thats why I bought a snaab, my money still sorta goes to GM. pretty much had to resort to saab to get a 4dr GM sedan with a manual too...but thats another rant.

I think the CTS's interior was designed by an American and it looks better than anything it competes with IMO. The Malibu, Aura, Solstice, Sky, and trucks all look great too. I think GM will ultimately put a nice interior in it, I'm not too hung up on a preproduction car.

I do like the CTS interior ...much of the components were taken directly from saab. Couldn't get over the exterior styling though. I did look at the Aura, what a change from what GM/Saturn normally offer. But look at the Pontiac G6 (same chassis) and the interior is cheap and nasty. The seats are comfy for long drives but they look like they belong in a Wrangler.

As for the 5th gen, I think the interior "look" is decided, maybe just not finalized. As usual GM is behind the 8-ball on getting to the car to market... ie the G8 (summer 07 availability), HHR SS (fall 07 availability), SSR (two years after projected date), and now the Camaro. As much as a die-hard GM guy I am, I can't overlook the consistent hesitation of GM to put a car into production quickly to capture the enthusiasm of the market.

my saab is the first non-real-GM car I've bought in 15 years. I wanted to wait until the 9-3 XWD came out...but I may trade up later. Any guesses on when the other cars on that chassis (Aura, G6, Malibu) will get AWD, a manual trans, or a turbo motor???

[BigEnos]

unfortunately they let the US designers have control of the interior design. cheap and crude. its okay in my $1000 3rd gen, but not in a $30K car. guess thats why I bought a snaab, my money still sorta goes to GM. pretty much had to resort to saab to get a 4dr GM sedan with a manual too...but thats another rant.

I think the CTS's interior was designed by an American and it looks better than anything it competes with IMO. The Malibu, Aura, Solstice, Sky, and trucks all look great too. I think GM will ultimately put a nice interior in it, I'm not too hung up on a preproduction car.

I do like the CTS interior ...much of the components were taken directly from saab. Couldn't get over the exterior styling though. I did look at the Aura, what a change from what GM/Saturn normally offer. But look at the Pontiac G6 (same chassis) and the interior is cheap and nasty. The seats are comfy for long drives but they look like they belong in a Wrangler.

As for the 5th gen, I think the interior "look" is decided, maybe just not finalized. As usual GM is behind the 8-ball on getting to the car to market... ie the G8 (summer 07 availability), HHR SS (fall 07 availability), SSR (two years after projected date), and now the Camaro. As much as a die-hard GM guy I am, I can't overlook the consistent hesitation of GM to put a car into production quickly to capture the enthusiasm of the market.

my saab is the first non-real-GM car I've bought in 15 years. I wanted to wait until the 9-3 XWD came out...but I may trade up later. Any guesses on when the other cars on that chassis (Aura, G6, Malibu) will get AWD, a manual trans, or a turbo motor???

The G6 and the new Malibu do not have the same chassis. That's the older car you are thinking of. The '08 Malibu is on the same platform as the Aura.

I also do not think the '08 CTS shares anything at all with any Saab.

I agree that the Camaro development seems to be at a glacial pace. Maybe it's just because I want one, kinda like Christmas when you're a kid. The new 9-3 (new for '08 I think) which also shares the Aura/'08 Malibu chassis has a turbo V6. I don't think any of the other cars on that line will get a turbo, though. I haven't heard anything about AWD.

This post has been edited by BigEnos: Jan 7 2008, 04:51 PM

[pknowles]

I agree that the Camaro development seems to be at a glacial pace. Maybe it's just because I want one, kinda like Christmas when you're a kid. The new 9-3 (new for '08 I think) which also shares the Aura/'08 Malibu chassis has a turbo V6. I don't think any of the other cars on that line will get a turbo, though. I haven't heard anything about AWD.

It just takes a long time to design something as complex as a car. I'm assuming that GM took notice of the 05 Mustang success and from that point on decided to design the 5th gen. So even if they started in the beginning of 05, if we see the car this summer that is only 3.5 years from brainstorm to product. That is fast!

[Todd]

I agree that the Camaro development seems to be at a glacial pace. Maybe it's just because I want one, kinda like Christmas when you're a kid. The new 9-3 (new for '08 I think) which also shares the Aura/'08 Malibu chassis has a turbo V6. I don't think any of the other cars on that line will get a turbo, though. I haven't heard anything about AWD.

It just takes a long time to design something as complex as a car. I'm assuming that GM took notice of the 05 Mustang success and from that point on decided to design the 5th gen. So even if they started in the beginning of 05, if we see the car this summer that is only 3.5 years from brainstorm to product. That is fast!

I concur that is fast...but have the GM marketing folks had their heads in the sand for the last few years?? It wasn't like Ford just went POOF!! and made a retro Mustang appear! Besides, there have been other successful retro cars before that...how many years was the PT Cruiser out before the HHR came out? I think that GM is so afraid to bring out a vehicle for fear it flops, and for that, they lose their edge. When they decided to kill the 4th gen without having a thought of a 5th gen, they put themselves behind the game...

I know that the 9-3X, Aura, and "new" malibu all share the same chassis...guess the G6 is still on the old chassis. You can bet no one other than Saab will have a manual trans car, and the AWD most likely won't make it to other brands either. Its really sad to have to go euro to get a "performance sedan" with a manual.

[z28jeff]

Anyone go to the Detroit auto show this year? I've gone in the past, but skipped it this year. A friend of mine that I usually go with , went and had nothing good to say about GM's pitiful excuse for a Camaro display. You would think at this stage, they would have a production-like model on the floor for everyone to see up close. Even if they kept the doors locked it could've been viewed up close and underneath. But instead, it was up on a stage 50 ft away from where people could stand. Some of his pics...
http://autoxphotos.com/gallery.asp?action=...x=&shownew=
http://autoxphotos.com/gallery.asp?action=...x=&shownew=
He also noticed with his zoom lens thingy (I'm not a camara guy, can you tell?) that the wiper arms, and door handles weren't even real! There was even some weather stripping falling off the side! Come on GM!
http://autoxphotos.com/gallery.asp?action=...x=&shownew=
http://autoxphotos.com/gallery.asp?action=...x=&shownew=
The second largest car show in the nation, and this was all they had to bring to the table. He said people were walking past it like wallpaper, not even noticing. Again, had it been on the floor where people could take a close look at it, it would have gotten more attention. I was there 2 years ago when they unveiled the original concept, it was the most talked about car there. Now people are so tired of waiting, they aren't even paying attention anymore. Meanwhile there were like 20 different versions of the Mustang there (including the Bullit), all of which had people standing around them.

An example of why this frustrates me is this...
http://autoxphotos.com/gallery.asp?action=...x=&shownew=
http://autoxphotos.com/gallery.asp?action=...x=&shownew=
That's the Honda CRZ concept. A new version of the old CRX. It's already rumored to start production in Sept 08. If that happens, it will have gone from concept to production in under a year! People are excited about that car. People will still be excited about it in Sept. And that is why they will sell tons of them.
I'm just afraid the Camaro will flop before it can get off the ground, due to this taking so long that people are losing intrest.

[sgarnett]

The wipers might be real. there are several variations of those spring bar wipers available now, and I use them. Those do look like they were just milled form a block of wood or plastic, though.

The "weatherstripping" is definitely not real. It's just strips of rubber (almost) held on with double-side tape.

[killer_bluebird]

If that was Bumblebee then a lot of parts are non fuctional. They had it on display at Summit Racings store for a week and you could get a lot closer than that. The plaque explained that this wasn't a real Camaro at all as the platform that was used was a modified GTO chassis if I remember correctly.

I agree that they should have had at least a pre-production test car on display, been that they are supposedly so close to production.

[1meanZ]

If that was Bumblebee then a lot of parts are non fuctional. They had it on display at Summit Racings store for a week and you could get a lot closer than that. The plaque explained that this wasn't a real Camaro at all as the platform that was used was a modified GTO chassis if I remember correctly.

I agree that they should have had at least a pre-production test car on display, been that they are supposedly so close to production.

I must say that I'll be amazed if the new Camaro does very well. I don't really like the nose and tail that much, and the interior is overdone. Plus in classic GM fashion, you wont be able to get a stripped one for under $30k, they will all probably be $36k and up. The new Challanger will be the same way, I'm told there are only 2 options on that car, 5.7 or 6.1 and the optional sunroof. What a crock. There is a reason that Neon SRT-4, Civic Si, Subaru WRX, Lancer Evo, sell reasonably well. You can get one for cheap, especially the neon, they were $19k when they came out. I think you should be able to get a base V8/stick Camaro with few options for under $25k. It they arent cheap, they'll never sell.

[vanwyk4257]

I couldn't agree more on the price issue. For those of us in the midwest where we can only drive a car like this for 6 months out of the year practically speaking not many people are going to want to pony up $35-$40K for one.

I'm not a huge fan of the design so I would rather buy a used C5 Z06 anyway...

[pknowles]

Anyone go to the Detroit auto show this year? I've gone in the past, but skipped it this year. A friend of mine that I usually go with , went and had nothing good to say about GM's pitiful excuse for a Camaro display. You would think at this stage, they would have a production-like model on the floor for everyone to see up close. Even if they kept the doors locked it could've been viewed up close and underneath. But instead, it was up on a stage 50 ft away from where people could stand.

At least the concept was at the Detroit auto show. My wife and I went to the DC autoshow last night and the Camaro (concept or otherwise) was no where to be seen. I was disappointed. But they had a couple cobalts. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/brick.gif)

GM also had only 1 HD truck and it was an ext cab short bed, while they had 6 1500's in all shapes and sizes. Dodge didn't have any 3/4 ton or 1 ton trucks there except for a stakebody. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/bs.gif) We went to the autoshow to look at trucks from the Big 3 side by side because I'll be making a new truck purchase at the end of this year. Ford had 3 Superduties and my wife loved the Harley Davidson F250. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rant2.gif)

[BigEnos]

Anyone go to the Detroit auto show this year? I've gone in the past, but skipped it this year. A friend of mine that I usually go with , went and had nothing good to say about GM's pitiful excuse for a Camaro display. You would think at this stage, they would have a production-like model on the floor for everyone to see up close. Even if they kept the doors locked it could've been viewed up close and underneath. But instead, it was up on a stage 50 ft away from where people could stand.

At least the concept was at the Detroit auto show. My wife and I went to the DC autoshow last night and the Camaro (concept or otherwise) was no where to be seen. I was disappointed. But they had a couple cobalts. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/brick.gif)

GM also had only 1 HD truck and it was an ext cab short bed, while they had 6 1500's in all shapes and sizes. Dodge didn't have any 3/4 ton or 1 ton trucks there except for a stakebody. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/bs.gif) We went to the autoshow to look at trucks from the Big 3 side by side because I'll be making a new truck purchase at the end of this year. Ford had 3 Superduties and my wife loved the Harley Davidson F250. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rant2.gif)

FWIW I heard they are mostly keeping the 5th gen away from auto shows. They know that we of the "coverted" will stalk the car and have an instatiable appetite for news and images. But they are trying to keep the general public from getting sick of it before it is even released.