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 Jul 6 2008, 06:39 PM
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#1
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Member  Group: Advanced Members Posts: 222 Joined: 5-July 08 From: Virginia Beach Member No.: 2,237  |
Hey guys,
Name is Kyle and live in Va beach. New to the F-body scene but not to road racing. Spent a lot of time running volvos, miatas, and bimmers, your basic momentum cars. So fter a while thought it was time for something else. Found a nice 2000 Trans Am WS6 in the area and took the plunge. I'm all signed up and ready to go with NASA at VIR in July. Really excited and stoked about learning a whole new car and driving style. I'm glad to see that the road racing support is there for these F-bodies and that I'm not crazy when I thought this car would make a fun track car. I'll be leaving the car stock for this outting to just get an over all feel for the car. I do however have some SS lines, good pads and sticky tires for her. I'm thinking of getting some chassis braces from UMI as well. But only if you guys think thats a good idea. Any other easy tips and tricks or just stuff to look out for would be great. So I'll be throwing as much of my knowledge about roadracing and F-bodies (as I learn them) out there as I can. And hopefully I'll run into a few of you guys at the track. Thanks Kyle P.S. If for some crazy reason any of you need some tips or help with Volvo 240s, don't hesitate to ask. I have a lot of time under the hood and on track with 240 Volvos and would love to help however I can. |
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Jul 6 2008, 07:20 PM
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Grumpy Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,722 Joined: 1-January 04 From: Bakersfield CA Member No.: 81 |
WELCOME!
The stock allignment just blows, check the allignment sticky. It's going to lean alot! LOL And watch that power steering, use some Redline and/or run it a tad low. That should get you through the first weekend, but do a search to get the low down. Check the front hubs to. |
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Jul 6 2008, 07:46 PM
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#3
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Engine and Tools Moderator Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,859 Joined: 23-December 03 From: Lebanon TN Member No.: 6 |
Hello Kyle, and welcome!
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Jul 6 2008, 08:14 PM
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Senior Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,226 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Danville, CA, USA Member No.: 27 |
Welcome and enjoy! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
I too went from "momentum" cars to the Camaro in 2003. It has been a blast! I drove a Datsun 510 for 9 years before that.....the transition was "interesting" in many ways. You will have a lot of fun! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool2.gif) |
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Jul 6 2008, 08:15 PM
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#5
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Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 174 Joined: 25-January 08 From: Red Bluff Ca. Member No.: 2,094 |
Yes, Yes, (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) WELCOME hope you have a great time on the first outting. Please give us a report afterwords. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/gr_driving3.gif)
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Jul 6 2008, 08:54 PM
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Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 222 Joined: 5-July 08 From: Virginia Beach Member No.: 2,237 |
Very cool, thanks everyone.
I did look into the allignment sticky. So I take it this can all be done on a stock vehicle ( ie- no camber caster plates) To be honest I haven't had much time to look at the car. I bought the car then had to fly up to Jersey the day after. So here I am in Jersey now and wont be home untill July 15th. The event is the 26th-27th, so I wont have much time to tinker with it. Oh well have to make the money to get to play right?? |
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Jul 6 2008, 08:58 PM
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Nitto Destroyer! Group: Advanced Members Posts: 248 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Rochester NY Member No.: 29 |
A hearty Welcome from Upstate New York!!!
The f-body can be alot of fun............however it's is heavy and pushes like a "pig". ....the car is a blast on the track, has some "old" school to it. HAVE FUN! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif) |
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Jul 6 2008, 10:08 PM
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Advanced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 471 Joined: 13-December 05 From: North Olmsted, OH Member No.: 1,010 |
QUOTE (Spruill242 @ Jul 6 2008, 02:54 PM)  Very cool, thanks everyone. I did look into the allignment sticky. So I take it this can all be done on a stock vehicle ( ie- no camber caster plates) Yeah you can just max the negative camber (probably around -.7 to -.9), max the caster and do 0 toe or just a little bit. Do the the brake fluid and if you have time do change the pads. My first track day on stock pads they lasted me 3 laps and after that they got real soft and I wished I had changed the pads before hand. |
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Jul 6 2008, 10:19 PM
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#9
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CMCer Group: Moderators Posts: 2,932 Joined: 12-February 04 From: the sticks near VIR Member No.: 194 |
Welcome! I have been running a 4th gen in CMC and now in CMC2 (allows some performance upgrades, including LS1 cars). Before that it was a 3rd gen CMC car. What are your goals with the car, just some HPDE or you you want to go racing? Then we can recommend better. With CMC there is a strict rule set you have to go by and many performance upgrades like UMI k members are not legal.
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Jul 6 2008, 11:28 PM
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Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 209 Joined: 6-August 05 From: Cumberland, Md Member No.: 841 |
240's are fun...my first experience was the oh so common fuel pump relay failure...easy fix.
Second was a little more involved, crank pulley keyway sheared off. But who can argue with 300K |
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Jul 7 2008, 12:24 AM
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#11
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Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 222 Joined: 5-July 08 From: Virginia Beach Member No.: 2,237 |
Yeah I knew someone would have some volvo tales... Yeah you really can't beat 300k. And now we are getting them into the 500 horsepower class. Theres a 242 in MD running 11.3 in the 1/4. Fun stuff.
I plan on keeping it an HPDE car. As well as Time trials when I get to that point. As far as full blown racing, probably not. Thats what the Volvo is getting rebuilt for right now. I'm just looking to make it fun and keep it street legal so I can drive it to and from the track. |
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Jul 7 2008, 01:26 AM
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#12
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Seeking round tuits Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,522 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Kentucky Member No.: 33 |
QUOTE (Spruill242 @ Jul 6 2008, 04:54 PM) I did look into the allignment sticky. So I take it this can all be done on a stock vehicle ( ie- no camber caster plates) To be honest I haven't had much time to look at the car. I bought the car then had to fly up to Jersey the day after. So here I am in Jersey now and wont be home untill July 15th. The event is the 26th-27th, so I wont have much time to tinker with it. Oh well have to make the money to get to play right?? Camber plates are not applicable to the 4th gen front suspension (SLA).Stock, you won't be able to get enough camber. Some people apparently have trouble getting much caster, but my car was a caster freak until the pot-canyon bent something. Anyway, you won't get enough of either, but you can still do a lot better than the factory specs. |
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Jul 7 2008, 02:02 AM
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Experienced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,086 Joined: 16-January 04 From: Chandler AZ Member No.: 130 |
Welcome! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Get an alignment, bleed or flush (recommended) the brakes, change pads if you can (looks like you may already have them), and change the coolant if you don't know its age. Also flush PS fluid. You will need a cooler eventually (OE or aftermarket). You should eventually change the trans/diff fluids too. Your brand preference, but something synthetic is best. Hold off on the SFCs until you figure out which class you want. Doesn't really matter in HPDE for just starting out, but can affect you in autocrossing classification. Try to get an instructor who is familiar with these types of cars (e.g., camaro/bird, mustang). Sounds like you have good prior experience so it may not matter, but never hurts. |
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Jul 7 2008, 02:07 AM
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CMCer Group: Moderators Posts: 2,932 Joined: 12-February 04 From: the sticks near VIR Member No.: 194 |
I'd get some aftermarket brake pads for the track only, folks here like Carbotechs mainly for HPDE use. Get some good brake fluid, lots of folks I know who race (and myself) run Motul, it is good bang for the buck and I have no complaints about it ever. You can spend a lot more if you like! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Then you got some good advice about the Redline PS fluid, that is a must for your first time out. Expect it to seep a little, that is normal. Then some bigger wheels and stickier than stock tires and you will get a very big improvement. I'd drive it in the near stock form though my first time out so you can see how all these mods work.
Have fun, looking forward to hearing about it! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Jul 7 2008, 04:00 AM
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#15
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FRRAX Owner/Admin Group: Admin Posts: 15,432 Joined: 13-February 04 From: Ohio Member No.: 196 |
Other than the above listed upgrades to make it through the track day (these cars are pretty fast and very heavy), a 35mm front sway bar will do wonders (with the alignment). But stock will get you started as well.
Welcome aboard! |
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Jul 7 2008, 12:39 PM
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#16
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Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 222 Joined: 5-July 08 From: Virginia Beach Member No.: 2,237 |
Thanks everyone you guys are great.
It is amazing how much easier it is to find aftermarket stuff for these cars than it was the Volvo. I can actually have fun shopping for car parts for the first time in my life... I'll be sure to let you guys know how everything goes. I'll also try to take as many pics as possible. |
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Jul 7 2008, 02:27 PM
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#17
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Seeking round tuits Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,522 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Kentucky Member No.: 33 |
As mentioned, the PS fluid (and sometimes the brake fluid) will weep a little around the cap at high temp. The "scrunchy mod" will help contain the drips. Raid your significant other's stash of hair scrunchies (the fluffy elastic pony tail holders), and place them around the filler necks.
BTW, it's common for LS1s to use some oil (even new), and they don't do a great job of keeping the oil where it belongs in the turns. A lot goes through the PCV system, but blowby can also be an issue with the low-tension rings. The factory capacity spec is 5.5 quarts, including the filter. I normally use 6 quarts for a routine oil change, and (per the past advice of others here) ran 6.5 quarts for a recent HPDE (which puts the level between "T" and "G" in "operating" on the dipstick. The factory oil spec is 10W-30. I've been running Redline 10W-40 for a long time because it reduced my oil consumption. While I was prepping for the track, my local sponsor was out of 10W-40 so I tried the Redline 5W-40. It sat in the cab of my truck in the sun for a few hours before use, and it poured in "like water". I was a bit concerned, but I checked the specs and at 100C it's actually slightly thicker than the 10W-40. On the whole trip of almost 500 highway miles pulling a large, heavy, enclosed tire/tool trailer and enough track time to burn around 20 gallons of fuel, I only used about 3/4 quart, which was less than I expected. The highly scientific oil analysis lab in my nose also suspects that blowby may have been reduced too, compared to the 10W-40. Time will tell, but so far so good. This post has been edited by sgarnett: Jul 7 2008, 02:50 PM |
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Jul 7 2008, 04:29 PM
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#18
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Advanced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 934 Joined: 7-March 06 Member No.: 1,113 |
QUOTE (CMC #37 @ Jul 6 2008, 10:07 PM) I'd get some aftermarket brake pads for the track only, folks here like Carbotechs mainly for HPDE use. Get some good brake fluid, lots of folks I know who race (and myself) run Motul, it is good bang for the buck and I have no complaints about it ever. You can spend a lot more if you like! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Then you got some good advice about the Redline PS fluid, that is a must for your first time out. Expect it to seep a little, that is normal. Then some bigger wheels and stickier than stock tires and you will get a very big improvement. I'd drive it in the near stock form though my first time out so you can see how all these mods work. Have fun, looking forward to hearing about it! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I had to laugh a little bit when Julie recommended Motul as a good bang for the buck. She is right depending on your perspective...and you can spend a whole lot more. But I have never thought of Motul as a bargain, but compared to other items we spend our dough on, I guess it really is. If you bleed your brakes often like most of us do, I would start out with ATE Super Blue. It is approximately 1/2 the price of the Motul with similar specs (check Amazon for deals). It sounds like you've been doing this before so you may already have your own favorite brands. Bock (Motul is a step up for me) Folken |
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Jul 7 2008, 04:41 PM
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#19
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Grumpy Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,722 Joined: 1-January 04 From: Bakersfield CA Member No.: 81 |
QUOTE (sgarnett @ Jul 7 2008, 07:27 AM) As mentioned, the PS fluid (and sometimes the brake fluid) will weep a little around the cap at high temp. The "scrunchy mod" will help contain the drips. Raid your significant other's stash of hair scrunchies (the fluffy elastic pony tail holders), and place them around the filler necks. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) And here I was thinking I was the only one doing this (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif) |
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Jul 7 2008, 05:14 PM
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#20
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CMCer Group: Moderators Posts: 2,932 Joined: 12-February 04 From: the sticks near VIR Member No.: 194 |
QUOTE (firehawkclone @ Jul 7 2008, 11:41 AM) QUOTE (sgarnett @ Jul 7 2008, 07:27 AM) As mentioned, the PS fluid (and sometimes the brake fluid) will weep a little around the cap at high temp. The "scrunchy mod" will help contain the drips. Raid your significant other's stash of hair scrunchies (the fluffy elastic pony tail holders), and place them around the filler necks. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) And here I was thinking I was the only one doing this (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif) Alan put one of these on my car with a fancy zip tie. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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Jul 7 2008, 05:46 PM
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#21
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Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 222 Joined: 5-July 08 From: Virginia Beach Member No.: 2,237 |
Man you guys are a riot.... The hair scrunchy tip is the kind of stuff I like to hear. You guys drive these things enough and start to find problems then come up with very "grassmotorsports" ways to solve them. My kind of crowd...
Again thanks everyone... Hopefully I will have some knowledge to pass on in the near future. |
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Jul 7 2008, 06:04 PM
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#22
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North of the border Group: Admin Posts: 2,307 Joined: 4-February 04 From: Montreal, CANADA Member No.: 177 |
welcome aboard... the crowd is great... hope you love it (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Also, surprised no one mentioned that stock shocks suck... lol |
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Jul 7 2008, 08:05 PM
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#23
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Experienced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,086 Joined: 16-January 04 From: Chandler AZ Member No.: 130 |
QUOTE (sgarnett @ Jul 7 2008, 07:27 AM) As mentioned, the PS fluid (and sometimes the brake fluid) will weep a little around the cap at high temp. The "scrunchy mod" will help contain the drips. Raid your significant other's stash of hair scrunchies (the fluffy elastic pony tail holders), and place them around the filler necks. BTW, it's common for LS1s to use some oil (even new), and they don't do a great job of keeping the oil where it belongs in the turns. A lot goes through the PCV system, but blowby can also be an issue with the low-tension rings. The factory capacity spec is 5.5 quarts, including the filter. I normally use 6 quarts for a routine oil change, and (per the past advice of others here) ran 6.5 quarts for a recent HPDE (which puts the level between "T" and "G" in "operating" on the dipstick. The factory oil spec is 10W-30. I've been running Redline 10W-40 for a long time because it reduced my oil consumption. While I was prepping for the track, my local sponsor was out of 10W-40 so I tried the Redline 5W-40. It sat in the cab of my truck in the sun for a few hours before use, and it poured in "like water". I was a bit concerned, but I checked the specs and at 100C it's actually slightly thicker than the 10W-40. On the whole trip of almost 500 highway miles pulling a large, heavy, enclosed tire/tool trailer and enough track time to burn around 20 gallons of fuel, I only used about 3/4 quart, which was less than I expected. The highly scientific oil analysis lab in my nose also suspects that blowby may have been reduced too, compared to the 10W-40. Time will tell, but so far so good. I thought the factory oil spec was 5w-30? That's what is called for in my 99Z and 01HD. I would concur that a thicker weight should be run in competition situations though. IIRC Bondurant runs 15w-50 in their school cars after several engine failures using the 5w-30. Whatever weight oil you run, the 6.5 (or a whole 7) is very cheap insurance for the lower end. And yes, replacing the shocks should move very high on your list of upgrades. Most here run Koni's or Bilstein's in various configurations. |
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Jul 7 2008, 08:37 PM
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#24
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CMCer Group: Moderators Posts: 2,932 Joined: 12-February 04 From: the sticks near VIR Member No.: 194 |
Just trying to not overwhelm! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Jul 7 2008, 10:12 PM
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#25
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Advanced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 689 Joined: 8-May 06 From: Charlotte, NC Member No.: 1,201 |
QUOTE (Rob Hood @ Jul 7 2008, 01:05 PM) Whatever weight oil you run, the 6.5 (or a whole 7) is very cheap insurance for the lower end. Or run an oil baffle from the site sponsor........... test results comming soon... |
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Jul 7 2008, 11:36 PM
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#26
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Experienced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,086 Joined: 16-January 04 From: Chandler AZ Member No.: 130 |
QUOTE (roadracetransam @ Jul 7 2008, 03:12 PM) QUOTE (Rob Hood @ Jul 7 2008, 01:05 PM) Whatever weight oil you run, the 6.5 (or a whole 7) is very cheap insurance for the lower end. Or run an oil baffle from the site sponsor........... test results comming soon... True and please post ASAP! |
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Jul 7 2008, 11:52 PM
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#27
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Seeking round tuits Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,522 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Kentucky Member No.: 33 |
Well, I think the first post mentioned leaving the car stock for the first outing, so most of the tips have been in that spirit.
However, Eugenio is right, the stock shocks suck. After the first outing you will probably want to upgrade the shocks and swaybars soon. My point regarding the Redline, is that there's more to it than just the viscosity grade. Some grades within the same product line may be better than others due to base stock differences, not just thicker or thinner. Within the Mobil One product line, the 0W-40 grade is reputed to be very good, while other grades are not. |
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Jul 8 2008, 12:04 AM
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#28
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FRRAX Owner/Admin Group: Admin Posts: 15,432 Joined: 13-February 04 From: Ohio Member No.: 196 |
And the front sway bar (35mm Suspension Techniques) can usually be had for under $150 and will greatly improve front tire wear by limiting body roll and camber loss. It's a cheap mod with real benefits. That's the only reason I suggested it.
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Jul 8 2008, 12:36 AM
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#29
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Advanced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 919 Joined: 30-December 03 From: Northern NY Member No.: 66 |
Comon guys keep it simple SEAT TIME, SEAT TIME and more seat time. Then work on the mods. Never thought I'd say that. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/222val.gif)
Kyle welcome aboard. Were all tight group of friends here. Ask a question and get an answer without all the BS. Hang around a bit you'll figure out what you need and not need. John |
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Jul 8 2008, 01:33 AM
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#30
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Seeking round tuits Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,522 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Kentucky Member No.: 33 |
QUOTE (Ojustracing @ Jul 7 2008, 08:36 PM) Comon guys keep it simple SEAT TIME, SEAT TIME and more seat time. Then work on the mods. Yeah, but he's not new to road racing. Besides, even if he was a novice, I think the time honored mantra needs a bit of tweaking: 1) Basics for safety and reliability 2) Seat time 3) Go fast goodies There's certainly nothing major mentioned in this thread. Most of it is just the basics to help the car survive. The alignment will greatly improve the tire wear, which quickly pays for itself. The same could be said for swaybars. I'll even argue for a further subdivision: 1) Basics for safety and reliability - fluids, pads, alignment 2) Initial seat time to set the hook 3) Basics to improve tire wear and predictable handling - swaybars and shocks 4) Lots and lots of seat time 5) Go fast goodies I really don't think sending a novice out to take their chances in a car lacking even basic prep is such a good idea. |
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Jul 8 2008, 09:16 AM
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#31
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I build race cars Group: Advanced Members Posts: 4,748 Joined: 31-August 05 From: Central coast, CA Member No.: 874 |
QUOTE (sgarnett @ Jul 6 2008, 06:26 PM) QUOTE (Spruill242 @ Jul 6 2008, 04:54 PM) I did look into the allignment sticky. So I take it this can all be done on a stock vehicle ( ie- no camber caster plates) Camber plates are not applicable to the 4th gen front suspension (SLA).Stock, you won't be able to get enough camber. You can elongate the holes in the Kmember for the camber bolts - extend the slot about 3/16" outward and you can get about -2 camber. Check the rule book for any class you think the car might end up in before doing this, tho. |
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Jul 12 2008, 03:11 PM
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#32
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Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 222 Joined: 5-July 08 From: Virginia Beach Member No.: 2,237 |
Yeah I'm no newbie to road racing, just F-bodies. I've got some LCBs coming in so I can get a better feel of how good/bad this suspension is stock. It's hard to feel when you can't tell if it's chassis flex or not. As far as classing, I'm not worried about that,the volvo is the "real" racecar. I really don't like autox/orange cone avoidance, so it'll be strictly road course duty.
So I've done the "basics" for my driving level, pads, rotors, shocks, braces, tires. We shall see how this goes.I'm really excited and ready to let 'er rip... Thanks everyone for your input and advice. I'll be sure to get pics and let you guys know how the event at VIR goes. This post has been edited by Spruill242: Jul 12 2008, 03:14 PM |
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