[Curmudgeon]

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) WARNING

I would suggest that you read all the forum rules or be ready to be roasted.

I would suggest you lurk for awhile before stepping in. It is one of the best tech site out there that I know of, but the sites admin. Does not tolerate violations of there rules.

[CMC #37]

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Reminds me of some of the snobby clubs the Beverly Hills set belongs to out here in CA!

[rmackintosh]

....what rule did you violate.....

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[KeithO]

....what rule did you violate.....

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Rules? THey have rules? Best I can tell, the only rules that they have is that you must put the work "f---" in each post and you have to call someone an a$$clown...

[NataSS Inc]

He is probably saw my first post there. It looked like a pack of dogs on a 3 legged cat. I managed to get banned w/ my first thread. Lewis gave me a reprive and unbanned me though

[rmackintosh]

....what rule did you violate.....

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Rules? THey have rules? Best I can tell, the only rules that they have is that you must put the work "f---" in each post and you have to call someone an a$$clown...

...must be a bunch of NON-RACERS then......or some REAL FAKE WANNA BE racers.....

....because I have met VERY FEW actual racers who weren't SUPER NICE and willing to help fellow racers with anything....

HELL....I lost a championship by 4 points when I told the guy right behind me to back his car off the trailer I would change his transmission for him, since he had barely the mechanical skills to put air in the tires..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

STILL HATE MYSELF FOR THAT!

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[trackbird]

He is probably saw my first post there.  It looked like a pack of dogs on a 3 legged cat.  I managed to get banned w/ my first thread.  Lewis gave me a reprive and unbanned me though

I figured you'd lurked around long enough to know the ins and outs over there. Not that you expect to be treated that way, but they have a reputation to uphold, or so it seems. I posted results to show that you do compete and are not a "highway warrior" or a "domestic ricer". They were hung up on that Billet Katech tensioner (I guess billet means bling) though.

[prockbp]

my impression of parenting from a CornerCarvers.com member:


child: daddy, what is five times six?

cc.com parent: you stupid bastard, get out of my life.

[Jon A]

...must be a bunch of NON-RACERS then......or some REAL FAKE WANNA BE racers.....

You should really check the board out before saying that, Randy. You couldn't be farther off. Yes, racers do what they can to help other racers and I know of no other place on the net where this happens more.

The attitude over there comes from racers not wanting to waste their time answering the same damn questions over and over again asked by street poseurs who want to know which billet shift knob will make their car, "Handle good on the offramps without messing up their 1/4 mile time." From not wanting the tech to be deluted with LS1.com/Corral-type "just because he says 2+2=5 doesn't mean you should be mean to him, everybody is entitled to their own opinion..." type crap.

[rmackintosh]

...must be a bunch of NON-RACERS then......or some REAL FAKE WANNA BE racers.....

You should really check the board out before saying that, Randy. You couldn't be farther off. Yes, racers do what they can to help other racers and I know of no other place on the net where this happens more.

The attitude over there comes from racers not wanting to waste their time answering the same damn questions over and over again asked by street poseurs who want to know which billet shift knob will make their car, "Handle good on the offramps without messing up their 1/4 mile time." From not wanting the tech to be deluted with LS1.com/Corral-type "just because he says 2+2=5 doesn't mean you should be mean to him, everybody is entitled to their own opinion..." type crap.

Jon....

I am aware of the site....and have used it....by lurking before....

My biggest pet peeve in the world however is people with attitude.....CAN'T STAND IT...and in EVERY thread there someone takes a shot at someone for something....

...I understand not wanting to cater to the infantile crowd....but do they have to ACT infantile to keep their little domain safe?????

...sorry, there would be an butt whooping from me to most of the "supreme beings" that get up on their pulpit over there.... :leaving:

[trackbird]

There are some very sharp minds over there. And, no doubt, more than a few talented drivers with well sorted cars. And, as Jon said, they are much more strict about avoiding the equivalent of the "which air lid is best" question every 3 days. They are trying to protect their home, just as we'd hope to do. The difference is that they have 8,000 members, we are under 500. I suspect that we will see a slight change in post content as our membership increases. However, I don't think we'll try the cc.com approach to preventing that change. Then again, maybe we'll stay small and it will never happen, though that seems unrealistic. And, everyone is welcome here. Many of us are happy to teach and guide, at least when we have a willing student, and share our knowledge freely. I don't think that will ever change. I enjoy explaining something and "seeing the lightbulb come on" when they get the concept. We are just a little more "paddock-like" in our approach. That's the way I like it.

I recommend cruising CC.com, but read the wiki site and "tread lightly" when you start. I've never had a problem, even from my first post, over there. But, I merged into traffic, provided concise information and left it at that.

[Absolut Speed]

I just lurk there occasionally, but it does appear to be, as Jon, notes, a self-defense mechanism to keep the riff raff, the unteachable and the street queens away.

Make sure your next thread's subject reads:
"Upgrade stang breaks for road course for under $500?"
That ought to start a scene similar to something you might see on "Shark Week."

[trackbird]

I just lurk there occasionally, but it does appear to be, as Jon, notes, a self-defense mechanism to keep the riff raff, the unteachable and the street queens away.

Make sure your next thread's subject reads:
"Upgrade stang breaks for road course for under $500?"
That ought to start a scene similar to something you might see on "Shark Week."

They love 'Stang over there, and use "breaks" for brakes.... A swift beating will ensue.

[rmackintosh]

There are some very sharp minds over there. And, no doubt, more than a few talented drivers with well sorted cars.

...I don't doubt that there are some sharp guys over there...it's just that from what I have seen is there are the SHARP ONES, then there is a drop off after a "few" knowledgable to a more "average" base of members...just like ANY board of this type...even this one...

Just don't get the "let's be MAJOR A$$CLOWNS to any potential A$$CLOWNS to keep them away strategy"....rubs me the wrong way entirely....

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

....besides....I would have to lose my "creative" punctuation and spelling techniques over there....AND....would not be able to let my TRUE feelings for the STANG be known....

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[trackbird]

Yea, they are there for their own amusement on occasion. They seem to have a different sense of humor than we do. And, I like to use creative punctuation more than the next guy. I agree that I don't always understand the attitude, nor do I agree with it. But, since they've not yet asked me, I don't think they care. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

That is why we are as laid back as we are, if you treat people with respect you usually get it in return. That helps to eliminate the "jabs" that appear between the same folks in every post, or at least reduce it.

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif)

[Jon A]

would not be able to let my TRUE feelings for the STANG be known....

Sure you could. Mustang owners have been saying worse things about it than you could ever think of over there for years. That's how the whole site got started. Being technically correct is what's important--not sugarcoating things.

EVERY thread has people taking shots at each other? Come on, go make a count in the tech areas right now--the percentage is much lower than you guys make it out to be. When it does happen, it's usually because somebody deserved it--like Boyce did in his first thread (even though it wasn't in a tech area). Look at the response Boyce has gotten from his second thread as an example. No shots, assclown calling, no "f-word" just good info from people like Scott Whitehead, Cris Griswold, Scott Griffith (and of course Kevin (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ). Some of you might recognize those names....

[rmackintosh]

would not be able to let my TRUE feelings for the STANG be known....

Sure you could. Mustang owners have been saying worse things about it than you could ever think of over there for years. That's how the whole site got started. Being technically correct is what's important--not sugarcoating things.

EVERY thread has people taking shots at each other? Come on, go make a count in the tech areas right now--the percentage is much lower than you guys make it out to be. When it does happen, it's usually because somebody deserved it--like Boyce did in his first thread (even though it wasn't in a tech area). Look at the response Boyce has gotten from his second thread as an example. No shots, assclown calling, no "f-word" just good info from people like Scott Whitehead, Cris Griswold, Scott Griffith (and of course Kevin (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ). Some of you might recognize those names....

....like I said...attitude....however slight is my weakness..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

....you know...there are ways to treat people EVEN WHEN they are wrong... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) ...EVEN if they "deserve" it....whatever THAT means.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Besides....I just rely on you as my personal car developer/test bed Jon.....YOU KNOW THAT! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Get me some data will you??? I have torn up poly lower control arm bushings....after 7 races....gonna make some changes.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif)

[trackbird]

I never meant to imply that it was "every thread". It is only in the threads that certain people post in. It seems to follow a select few over there. Once they post an answer, all bets are off on getting the thread back on track (in many cases) and it turns to open season on "insert member here". Quikag comes to mind. Every time he says anything, it becomes a thrash-fest on him. I don't know the guy, or know what he did that was so bad, but he usually gets a beating. With that said, there are many excellent technical posts over there and that is why I am an occasional contributor. On the rare occasion I have something of merit to add to a conversation (I'll stick to firearms threads on that board.....we did quite well there). I think most of these boards have their place and CC.com has a niche as well. Just don't make general statements over there. They will ask you for examples and facts. Of that you can be sure.

[bruecksteve]

Sorry, just don't like their elitist attitude. They can keep their site FWIW.

[Soma07]

I am far from the most technical person but I've never had any problems posting there. The general discussion area can get a little rough sometimes but the tech areas are solid (albeit Mustang centric).

All you have to do is follow the rules, don't ask stupid questions, and do a little research yourself before asking for help. Do that and you'll be fine. Don't and you'll get banned, very simple.

[trackbird]

It's sad when the most popular thread on the board, is a thread about another board.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif)

There are about 5 people viewing this thread right now.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

We need to change the topic of this thread to "CC tech"...... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)

Don't take that as a negative, I was just making an observation that I found funny.

[Crazy Canuck]

my impression is that they're a bunch of snobs with blown heads.
Ironically, I find that good racers will seek humility.
Rather not waste time with jerks... just mho, fwiw.
They don't even give a chance for a newbie... it's bashtime right away (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
So I'll concentrate in the :drive: while they concentrate on the (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif)

[ESPCamaro]

my impression of parenting from a CornerCarvers.com member:


child: daddy, what is five times six?

cc.com parent: you stupid bastard, get out of my life.

I have never laughed so hard at something written. And haven't laughed so hard period since I saw Anchorman. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)

[Dewey316]

it's bashtime right away (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Not always. I post over there, and we were all newbies at one point. If you just slip in, unoticed, there is no bashing. The thing is, everyone notices when they DO bash someone, no one notices the other 10 newbies who they don't bash.

but, at the end of the day, i spend a lot more time at frrax, than i do at C-C.

edit...adding.

ESP, i think it would be something more like this . . .

cc.com parent: Read the f-ing wiki, and do a search, i am sick of answering the same stupid multiplication question, you stupid bastard, get a life. And trumps huffs rod.

[Jon A]

Before I offend too many people, let me say the below is not directed at anyone specific in this thread or on this board--but toward the vast majority of F-Body owners who like to turn corners in general.

[Begin Rant]

Most want to learn, or at least they say they do. While picking up a book or two can work wonders, most are too damn lazy to do it. These days most will learn everything from the internet. Message boards. Most only read a couple specific to their make and model as if it's the only information in existence. I've got news for you, it isn't.

A car is a car. While the techniques used to apply them may differ from car to car, the laws are all the same. In the end, it's four tires on the pavement, nothing more. If you think reading what (many times, clueless) people say about your particular car is all there is to learn about it, you're kidding yourselves.

Frrax.com is wonderful, and I'm so glad it's here. But it has only been here for a few months. Before that, we had the AutoX/RR forums on various F-Body boards. If that's where you spent all your time, yes, you have missed out. While they did get a little better over the last couple of years, overall they still sucked. I did my best to try and make them better, but I was fighting a losing battle. Much too often I got the same frustration with them that the people who started CC.com got with the Mustang boards. I would stop reading and posting for a while. I wouldn't answer the questions I knew the answer to because I had already answered them a million times!!!

Technical discussions regarding suspension design, overall vehicle dynamics, etc? Pathetic (what little there was). No, the signal was drowned out by the noise. Explaining for the bazillionth time that poly/poly LCA's weren't the best idea. Even if they come powdercoated yellow. Where it's "mean" to tell somebody he is wrong. Even if he is.

So, for all of you who won't "lower yourselves" to reading posts with attitude, I'm happy for you. Maybe if you had spent a tenth of the time you spent on F-Body boards lurking on CC.com, things like what a motion ratio is, what a roll center is, what tire efficiency is, how and why weight transfer happens, etc wouldn't be such foreign concepts to you. Maybe you'd start to understand some of those things in that book you stopped reading because it all went over your head when you hear them explained and examples given in numerous discussions. This is basic stuff, kids. In "other words" you might know your butt from a hole in the ground.

Oh, but they're so mean! That's weak. Really. Just an excuse. I've heard it all before. You guys think you're saying anything new? You sound exactly like the crybabies on the Corral have sounded for years after getting a good tech smackdown. Exactly! But you know what? Many of those same people who said those things, really did want to learn. After learning the difference between their asses and a hole in the ground, they see just how wrong they really were and why they were smacked down in the first place. They become members of CC.com. Eventually, some even have something to contribute. Some even become moderators there! The ones who don't? Well, nobody at CC.com misses them. We don't need 1000 new members a day showing up to tell us 2+2=5.

Just a Mustang site? Go ahead and keep thinking that. Your loss.

And for anybody who has a problem with what I said above, I've got two words for you. Yes, you guessed them. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


SUCK IT!


[End Rant]

[rmackintosh]

Before I offend too many people, let me say the below is not directed at anyone specific in this thread or on this board--but toward the vast majority of F-Body owners who like to turn corners in general.

[Begin Rant]

Most want to learn, or at least they say they do. While picking up a book or two can work wonders, most are too damn lazy to do it. These days most will learn everything from the internet. Message boards. Most only read a couple specific to their make and model as if it's the only information in existence. I've got news for you, it isn't.

A car is a car. While the techniques used to apply them may differ from car to car, the laws are all the same. In the end, it's four tires on the pavement, nothing more. If you think reading what (many times, clueless) people say about your particular car is all there is to learn about it, you're kidding yourselves.

Frrax.com is wonderful, and I'm so glad it's here. But it has only been here for a few months. Before that, we had the AutoX/RR forums on various F-Body boards. If that's where you spent all your time, yes, you have missed out. While they did get a little better over the last couple of years, overall they still sucked. I did my best to try and make them better, but I was fighting a losing battle. Much too often I got the same frustration with them that the people who started CC.com got with the Mustang boards. I would stop reading and posting for a while. I wouldn't answer the questions I knew the answer to because I had already answered them a million times!!!

Technical discussions regarding suspension design, overall vehicle dynamics, etc? Pathetic (what little there was). No, the signal was drowned out by the noise. Explaining for the bazillionth time that poly/poly LCA's weren't the best idea. Even if they come powdercoated yellow. Where it's "mean" to tell somebody he is wrong. Even if he is.

So, for all of you who won't "lower yourselves" to reading posts with attitude, I'm happy for you. Maybe if you had spent a tenth of the time you spent on F-Body boards lurking on CC.com, things like what a motion ratio is, what a roll center is, what tire efficiency is, how and why weight transfer happens, etc wouldn't be such foreign concepts to you. Maybe you'd start to understand some of those things in that book you stopped reading because it all went over your head when you hear them explained and examples given in numerous discussions. This is basic stuff, kids. In "other words" you might know your butt from a hole in the ground.

Oh, but they're so mean! That's weak. Really. Just an excuse. I've heard it all before. You guys think you're saying anything new? You sound exactly like the crybabies on the Corral have sounded for years after getting a good tech smackdown. Exactly! But you know what? Many of those same people who said those things, really did want to learn. After learning the difference between their asses and a hole in the ground, they see just how wrong they really were and why they were smacked down in the first place. They become members of CC.com. Eventually, some even have something to contribute. Some even become moderators there! The ones who don't? Well, nobody at CC.com misses them. We don't need 1000 new members a day showing up to tell us 2+2=5.

Just a Mustang site? Go ahead and keep thinking that. Your loss.

And for anybody who has a problem with what I said above, I've got two words for you. Yes, you guessed them. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


SUCK IT!


[End Rant]

WOW Jon.....don't quite know what to say to that......well, actually I do, but I will tone down the attitude for ya (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

A few points.

1. NOT all of us are engineers. It is NICE that analytical types have a place to go that fits your/their needs. Some of us are just out to make our cars the best WE can, and drive the hell out of them. And us DRIVERS have an opinion/experience/insight that can be useful as well. I have seen some of the "experts" lap times on that site, and I would be a winner in that group......can't read it ALL in a book my friend. I may not be able to explain through calculus roll centers, weight transfers, etc.....but guess what.....with the LITTLE knowledge I DO have I can ask the right questions and get a professional to set my car up to work pretty damn well.
2. LAZY....don't know about you bud, but lazy is NOT IN MY FREAKIN VOCABULARY! My wife and I BOTH work our asses off to support our family and manage to raise two kids the BEST THAT WE CAN! F-body owners like me, work 30 hours a day just to get the kids to school and home again, and manage to give them some quality time. If I had the time of day to pick up and study all the things I SHOULD know "to know my butt from a hole in the ground"....I SURE AS HELL WOULDN'T BE READING THAT STUFF....I would be doing something I enjoy like taking my kids to a ballgame, or hell, just READING FOR PLEASURE....which I haven't done since God knows when. If I can save myself 5 MINUTES by picking the brain of someone who has "done it before me" I will be all over that. If I need to go to a suspension shop and get the thing dialed in to a baseline so I can go out and play with it, I HAVE TO DO THIS....there isn't enough time in the day to spend on this hobby....cause, at the end of the day, that is what we are talking about here.....a hobby THAT ALREADY takes up ENTIRELY TOO MUCH TIME compared to the time my family deserves!
3. FRRAX is NOT perfect....and believe it or not neither is CC.com. It is a COMMUNITY of people who are "trying to learn"......and meet each other and learn in a CIVIL environment.....IS THAT TOO FUCKING MUCH TO ASK?????? Granted some of us are "too lazy" to do it YOUR WAY....some for my family reasons above, some for various other reasons....CANNOT devote countless hours to studying how to engineer a car from the ground up! I paid GM to do that for me, and I pay other companies to design and build systems that will work to improve that car. I am SMART ENOUGH to know I am "LAZY", and need others to assist me in picking systems that work well, and together to make me faster than I otherwise would be.
4. And this is just me here...if answering the same shit over and over gets to you so much.....don't bother! (I am sure there are guys cursing my name now, but WTF?) I myself skip over the "poly on poly" shit all the time.....but I don't go into the thread and call the newbie an ASSCLOWN and to GET A FUCKIN LIFE, or he will be banned either! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/dunno.gif) I was raised to be curteous to others......if you don't got nothin' nice to say....don't say it! With the internet....people lose that concept all the time...WORST PART OF THE DAMN THING IMHO...would they act that way to a person's face????? I don't think so.....
5. Crybabies = weak? Probably, but what is JUST AS WEAK are people who don't know how to socialize in a constructive manner.

...don't know if you had a bad day at work or something today.....maybe the slide rule broke or something.....but man, you need to relax and understand the purpose of this site, and others for that matter........

Oh, and it was a REAL high note you ended on there.....might want to consider how that would play talking FACE TO FACE with someone.....

:leaving:

[derf'96SS]

in 8 months this is the first bullshit thread I've read here

[rmackintosh]

in 8 months this is the first bullshit thread I've read here

...not the first, but one of the VERY few....

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif)

[bruecksteve]

WOW!!!! Live on the east coast and look at what you miss while you're sleeping!!!

I'm sorta with Randy here.

I understand that people get tired of answering the same questions over and over. Message forums are a great way to get information but not always the easy way to find it. But regardless, being rude and demeaning and for that matter, condoning that, is not the attitude most uf us had when we originally got together up here on this site. Like I said, if that's the way they want to be, they can have their site. I don't have time to wade through all the name calling and bickering, I'm trying to find out stuff about my car and maybe help someone else out that might be doing the same. We were all new to this at some point and we all asked stuid questions. More reason for us to take the time and come up with a FAQ section.

And like Randy, I don't have the time to spend (not that I wouldn't like to) devoting my life to understanding roll centers etc. I've read the books (I've had a lot more years to do it than most of you (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) ) and even talked to some of the greats of our sport, but let's face it, the science behind what we do and how it works is still black art and witchcraft. If I go change my roll center will I feel the difference? Maybe, maybe not. If I use a 295 vs 315 will I feel the difference, will I go faster? Maybe, maybe not. The point is, without the major money to test everything we can try, all we can do is ask "stupid" questions and hope we can use our tiny brains and come to some conclusion that will make us go faster and that we can afford.

But there is no reason to be hateful and degrading when responding to a "newbie" and I'm sure the administration of THIS board will not allow that to happen.

We will now return to your regularly scheduled program... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/drink.gif)

[Curmudgeon]

Well I agree with Jon CC.com is a great tech site. Tech is tech, and were I find it does not matter to me. Now when and if I have something to contribute to a forum I try to.

Now if one is objective and reads cc.com and then goes to LS1.com, LS1tech or the Corral one would see that CC.COM is a techie forum.

Now all sites have issues, but sifting though the trash on most forums to find useful tech is not an issue on CC.COM.

Now at times I have asked tech questions on this forum that have gone unanswered they would not on CC.COM.

If I had my wish there would be a tech forum with lots of engineers, race team guys, factory guys and techies that would post technical stuff and answer tech questions that had not been addressed before in that forum. I don’t need to see “what is the best cam” five times in the same day. I don’t need unsupported opinions. CC.COM is the closest forum to this ideal I have found.

By the way Jon I have enjoyed your Camaro related stuff. I have read it all and am still trying to take it all in.

[trackbird]

CC.Com has some great tech. They offer a great depth of information on many topics that are complicated, to say the least. They offer a wealth of valuable information and can be an excellent resource. I read alot and post little on there (I'm still under 100 posts on that board and I've been a member a year or two). If you need information on complicated subjects, they are a good source for it in most cases.

However, love them or hate them, they are not going away. They can go from "0 to attitude" in nothing flat when their rules are broken (light flywheel?). That is a fact of life around there. They've not asked for my opinion of that approach, nor would they car what I had to say about it. So, there is no point in anyone getting worked up about it, it will not change, no matter what we do or say. If you like the tech and want to cruise CC.com, by all means, I suggest you do so (I often do). If you don't like their attitude or the approach they use, I'd suggest avoiding them. There is no right or wrong answer here, it is personal choice. It's a big internet out there, explore.

We have been laying the groundwork for a FAQ section and/or a installation page with explanations. The thought here is that by offering a "course" in whatever it is a person is going to ask about, we can get them "up to speed" and answer most of their questions before they get asked. This is designed to help those who need mechanical guidance and to help reduce repeat questions on the board (not that we won't answer them and not that we have had any). We are going to try to help educate someone new and let them ask about what they have learned. I hope this will prove to be a valuable resource for our current and future members. If anyone has pics and a write up on "how to" do something on an F-body, drop me a line, I'm always open to assistance.

I have a feeling that an arguement about cc.com can run for days and accomplish nothing. Or, we can all agree to disagree (or agree, either one). It's your call.

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Jon A]

Randy, just a couple points:

I have seen some of the "experts" lap times on that site, and I would be a winner in that group......can't read it ALL in a book my friend. 

Thanks for reminding me how out of date that page is. Most of the times there are about 3 or 4 years old...before there even was an American Iron. If you want to check laptimes, look at AI/AIX results from around the country like this:

http://www.nasaproracing.com/results.html

http://www.racenasa.com/results_2004.htm

Most of the fastest guys are members of CC.com....

If I had the time of day to pick up and study all the things I SHOULD know "to know my butt from a hole in the ground"....I SURE AS HELL WOULDN'T BE READING THAT STUFF....

Don't even give me the time thing. Remember, I can't even leave the house on weekends being "Mr. Mom." If you have the time to post to this board over a thousand times in 8 months, you certainly have the time to flip to a books glossary and turn to a subject while reading a thread here that you'd like to understand better. You choose not to. And that's fine.

3.  FRRAX is NOT perfect....and believe it or not neither is CC.com.  It is a COMMUNITY of people who are "trying to learn"......

I made it pretty clear I wasn't talking about FRRAX.com but the other boards before this one came into being. If nobody agrees they sucked, then why is everybody here? I have high hopes for this place.

Oh, and it was a REAL high note you ended on there.....might want to consider how that would play talking FACE TO FACE with someone.....

Maybe you wouldn't miss the (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) face to face. Would you like a sticker of the logo? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Anyway, everybody is entitled to their own opinion on matters like this. If F-Body people want to call those guys arrogant assholes who waste all their time reading about worthless stuff that's so "complicated" and choose not to do it themselves, that's just fine. But then, many believe F-Bodies simply can't compete in AI or AIX.... Gee, I wonder why? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[Curmudgeon]

I also have hi hopes for this forum.

Tech is not easy, one must read and discuss the topic at hand to get the most out of it. I hope this forum can provide good tech.

With poeple like Jon and Trackbird we might get there.

By the way Jon appears to be the only guy that post on going base with tech.

[rmackintosh]

If I had the time of day to pick up and study all the things I SHOULD know "to know my butt from a hole in the ground"....I SURE AS HELL WOULDN'T BE READING THAT STUFF....

Don't even give me the time thing. Remember, I can't even leave the house on weekends being "Mr. Mom." If you have the time to post to this board over a thousand times in 8 months, you certainly have the time to flip to a books glossary and turn to a subject while reading a thread here that you'd like to understand better. You choose not to. And that's fine.

....unfortunately...you are wrong about my time....I am "lucky" enough to sit a computer all day long.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ....and I always have a window open in the back ground with "fun stuff" like this site.....once an hour or so, I pop over to it fire off a few lines and pop the window back to the background....keeps me sane... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif)

I doubt VERY MUCH, my boss would like to see me....feet up on the desk....reading a "How to win" book! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

At home, the puter is on with pages open so I can check them on "bathroom breaks" from the fambly....I AM SURE you know how hard it is to do ANYTHING remotely for yourself, when you are "Mr. Mom"... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

EVEN SO....I probably spend more time on "the car" than 95% of those hear....prepping the damn thing for a race is DAMN TIME CONSUMING to do it right, and THAT is the only way I do things... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Sorry the [begin RANT] [end RANT] feature must have killed the (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) you were conveying... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I respect your knowledge of the engineering side of a vehicle very much.....my only point was that CAR GUYS ARE CAR GUYS...just because some of us aren't GENIOUSES, doesn't mean we aren't just as serious as others in our passion...everyone approaches this hobby from a different perspective, but WE ALL love the same thing.

Besides, if there were no geniouses out there, how would I be able to improve my car??? I LIVE for you testing my future suspension.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ...maybe someday I can repay the favor on my general knowledge on how to build/prep a race car.....PEACE!

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[beuke23]

I feel the love, I feeel the love! (Kev, we need that eye-blinkin'-love-thingy icon back!).

My take on cc.com is, treat it like going to a lounge full of unioned engineers. There's a bunch of sharp minds there. My own personal experience with engineers is that, they express themselves well. They get to the point, no fluff, no beating around the bush. They hate repeating themselves. If I want to ask a question, I better word it right and know that I've tried every other options.

I'm lucky to work with one of the best audio tech person in the nation that I can rely on. He's not exactly Mr. Nice Guy, though he's a little less fiesty now that he's in his 50's and have 2 kids. The guy is very systematic and concise, and that's how we have to deal with him. Lots of time he'd tell the guys to RTFM (read the f------' manual). He may sound like an arse, but he's actually a cool guy. He's just very efficient and hates wasting time.

And that's my personal take on cc.com, and indirectly Jon A, Sean G, Mike T, (almost sounds like the Beasties!), and the rest of the engineers/technical peoples. Not to say these guys aren't friendly and act above it all! I respect them alot, and feel lucky to have them around. And I feel this way to everyone on this board, too! We have a collection of cool people here.


Oh, as far as frrax.com, I liken it to having BBQ with a bunch of knowledgable car guys, shooting the $hit, having brewskies, and looking at girls every now and then (except Mitch, cos he's waaay too old... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) ).

This post has been edited by beuke23: Jul 31 2004, 12:03 AM

[Jon A]

If I go change my roll center will I feel the difference? Maybe, maybe not.

No maybe about it. You will. Trust me. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I LIVE for you testing my future suspension....

I'm workin' on it.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[rmackintosh]

I LIVE for you testing my future suspension....

I'm workin' on it.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

...THAT is what I am afraid of.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) ....put the book down and get it IN PRODUCTION damnit....I am gaining on you!

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/whip.gif)

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[trackbird]

I feel the love, I feeel the love! (Kev, we need that eye-blinkin'-love-thingy icon back!).

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

That one?

Hell, now I have to find one for :grouphug:

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif)

[beuke23]

Hehe, you're the man! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif)

[Jon A]

....put the book down and get it IN PRODUCTION damnit....I am gaining on you!

Well, I too, do have a life, you know! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Anyway, I'll be putting together my birthday present tonight...a welder! Depending upon how long it takes me to remember how to weld, I should have the PHB brackets on shortly. I'll be testing them out the 23rd. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[94bird]

Damn Randy, you always have a computer on and you still can't catch me? I don't even have internet access at work and I've been on the forums only every other day or so recently. So much potential, so little action . . . (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

I have to admit, as I've posted before, my desire to become a suspension guru has lessened over the past few years. I've realized that engines are my passion and there is so much to learn about them that I've resigned myself to learn from others for my suspension help. I understand the basics, but I'm not near Sean's or Jon's level and don't plan to be. That pretty much makes me a browser at cc.com in the Suspension areas. That's OK. When I have time I go there, especially after AI races, since the results are generally posted there first.

Coolest news I got today was our new engine we're doing at work dynoed within 2 HP of the historic 426 Hemi with both using the old 60's musclecar rating system (no accessories, open headers, no induction, cold intake temp). We're quite a few cubic inches short of them too. That's where my passion is. Give me exhaust roar any day over roll center calculations. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif)

Hey Kevin, where's a cool emoticon of an engine blowing flames out open headers?

[Judd]

4. And this is just me here...if answering the same shit over and over gets to you so much.....don't bother! (I am sure there are guys cursing my name now, but WTF?) I myself skip over the "poly on poly" shit all the time.....but I don't go into the thread and call the newbie an ASSCLOWN and to GET A f------ LIFE, or he will be banned either! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/dunno.gif) I was raised to be curteous to others......if you don't got nothin' nice to say....don't say it! With the internet....people lose that concept all the time...WORST PART OF THE DAMN THING IMHO...would they act that way to a person's face????? I don't think so.....
5. Crybabies = weak? Probably, but what is JUST AS WEAK are people who don't know how to socialize in a constructive manner.

...don't know if you had a bad day at work or something today.....maybe the slide rule broke or something.....but man, you need to relax and understand the purpose of this site, and others for that matter........

Oh, and it was a REAL high note you ended on there.....might want to consider how that would play talking FACE TO FACE with someone.....

:leaving: QUOTE]

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on CC. com.. As you said, if a person makes a stupid post, a post in the wrong area, miss-spells a word { big whoop-de-do} or mistakenly posts something that has already been discussed at length,,,,, there are better ways to deal with it.

IGNOREING them is one way of letting them know that they could use the search feature. I think that most folks do deserve at least a modicum of respect. I do believe that most folks do deserve a couple of chances before a "smack-down" from twenty people ranting and raveing cursing for all they are worth. If they were so worried about "shitting up the site" as they say they are, they would just ignore the post or delete it.

On the other hand, if the poster is just trying to start trouble {which happens alot on that site because of the way people get treated}, then by all means,,,,, bust their chops and bust them well.

BTW, the site {by and large} is a bit hypocritical. When one of the "Big-wigs of the Grand Poo-bas" makes a small {or sometime no so small} mistake {that would get a Newbie Retard cussed out to no end},,,, they are sometimes "let off the hook".

Saying all that.
CC.com is a good tech. site though {hopefully, this site will end up being their equal in the future}, when they aren't busting someones arse for accidentally miss-spelling a word or posting some sort of previously posted information. It is their site and they can run it the way they want. I just keep my mouth shut and and read the stuff I need.

[rmackintosh]

....put the book down and get it IN PRODUCTION damnit....I am gaining on you!

Well, I too, do have a life, you know! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Anyway, I'll be putting together my birthday present tonight...a welder! Depending upon how long it takes me to remember how to weld, I should have the PHB brackets on shortly. I'll be testing them out the 23rd. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

ahhhhhhh....NOW YOU'RE TALKIN'......a WELDER.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

...unfortunately...you are looking at ANOTHER area where I tend to be lazy... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ...my fab buddy welds better and nicer than most any I have seen....AND I HAVE LOOKED AT A BOATLOAD of cages, suspensions, etc....that and I spent much of the 80's.....when I was a pup.....helping him build Trans-Am and GT-1 type cars "after school"... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

welding is another...."wish I knew how to do it better" thingy, but this guy welds like an artist, so I figure....what the hell.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Should be a fun toy though....learn GOOD before those brackets....I have heard from Jason and others that STRONG welds are critical in that system....

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[KeithO]

Coolest news I got today was our new engine we're doing at work dynoed within 2 HP of the historic 426 Hemi with both using the old 60's musclecar rating system (no accessories, open headers, no induction, cold intake temp). We're quite a few cubic inches short of them too. That's where my passion is. Give me exhaust roar any day over roll center calculations. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif)

When am I going to see the new Charger announced? Since NASCAR just approved it for the Intrepid's replacement, I have to believe that the *real* street car can't be far behind... Could this be the cradle for this new, mystery engine?

[mitchntx]

In racing, the age old addage is that "there is always someone faster".

Taking that to the next level and applying it to CC.com ...

"Someone will always have more attitude".

Jon's points concerning repetitive answering of easily searched questions is a valid one. It does get a little frustrating and old. And people, by and large, want to be spoon fed. Call it lazy ... I call expedited learning. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Where I think CC.com goes a little beyond just being a bunch of frustrated, very intelligent racers is when someone gets hammered for simple typos.

All of a sudden a huge population has the time and energy to post up flame and rhetoric ... but not add content to post. If the typos were so bad it made it unreadable, then maybe ...

I think this place is quickly becoming the best of both worlds. It is beginning to amass the tech data for search and the techies for the answers. And it also has a laid back feel to it.

It's gonna be up to us, the users (not admin or mod staff) to keep the focus. You can call some out for NOT using the search tool ... and it can be done in such a way that it won't start a flamefest, resulting in bannishment.

Flaming or ranting on someone because they failed is just a little too much like Jr. High.

JMHO

[ESPCamaro]

[quote=Jon A,Jul 29 2004, 12:42 PM] [quote=rmackintosh,Jul 29 2004, 10:50 AM] ...must be a bunch of NON-RACERS then......or some REAL FAKE WANNA BE racers..... [/quote]
You should really check the board out before saying that, Randy. You couldn't be farther off. Yes, racers do what they can to help other racers and I know of no other place on the net where this happens more.

The attitude over there comes from racers not wanting to waste their time answering the same damn questions over and over again asked by street poseurs who want to know which billet shift knob will make their car, "Handle good on the offramps without messing up their 1/4 mile time." From not wanting the tech to be deluted with LS1.com/Corral-type "just because he says 2+2=5 doesn't mean you should be mean to him, everybody is entitled to their own opinion..." type crap. [/quote]
ABSOLUTELY.

Without question the racers help the other racers.

And I completely agree that the same old tech questions are pretty boring. EVEN IF It is a question about something rarely discussed.

I have seen it on this board already. There will be a topic in the S/C forum, with a bunch of replies, and then someone will ask the same question. Or VERY similar.

Also, I agree with DG about the kind of tech we are talking about, that happens at CC.com.
I think he pulls made up/false numbers out of his butt, HOWEVER, if you are not up to speed with everyone else, start busting your butt, and get up to speed.

Here is a perfect example. I have discussed with another board mod about the level in which we are willing to help others who we compete with.

I've been working on something that is generally pretty damn simple. BUT, I have put HOUR UPON HOUR of research into it. Maybe it's just me but in this instance, for others to catch up, they need to bust butt, not have the info given away by me.

(I MAY OR MAY NOT GET TO THE FACT THAT I'M NOT THE JERK THIS MAY MAKE ME SEEM LIKE TO SOME)

Look at it this way. Say you have a direct work partner. And your busting butt all day, while joe shmoe bs's and generally slacks off all day. Most people sure as hell wouldn't want to let that guy take credit for what we accomplished in that day.

HOWEVER, I think that with some effort (see even they need to put forth more effort) WE here at FRRAX.com can avoid the exact same things that they want to avoid, WITHOUT being rude jerks.

With easily searchable database as well as a 'required reading section' that answers most questions before even posting.

About the only thing I would be all for, that portrays a 'we are to good for you attitude' here on FRRAX, is deleting what is the best PHR, LCA's, SFC's etc.


I STILL THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD TO SEE MORE TECHNICAL QUESTIONS HERE ON FRRAX. I don't see the NEED to go to CC.com. We can simply buckle down as a team, and find out what we need to.

My guess is that my thread about suspension modeling will eventually have alot of good info in it. If anyone showed interest. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

In the meantime maybe I'll do a simple text write up about simple terms that can be looked up. Maybe a sticky for now, and eventually in the tech section archive that Kevin spoke of.


The tech is good at CC.com. The attitude is PISS POOR. There is no reason why, with effort, that we at FRRAX.com, can't have the best of both worlds. Great tech and good people.




[quote=rmackintosh,Jul 30 2004, 04:37 PM] (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[/quote]


And here I agree with Randy.

NO WAY IN HELL is it EVEN CLOSE to fair or IMO accurate to stereotype F-body owners as lazy.


I HAVE GOT TO THINK that Rand, and I ARE NOT the only ones who feel this way. AND I DO KNOW that we are not the only ones practicing the same way.


I already know what some of you think, and could give a shit...To PROPERLY, AND METICULASLY prep EVEN AN AUTOX car takes A TON of time.

Now this isn't always the case. I've really stepped up car prep/development in the past year. And there IS a big difference between 'just doing' it' and doing the things you need to do THE RIGHT WAY.


IMO NOT ONE OF US, is as lazy as your rant seems to imply. If that were the case we wouldn't be racing F-bodies, and we would be paying someone else to DO EVERYTHING. I just can't, for the most part, consider enthusiasts lazy. At least not at a wholesale level.



[quote=rmackintosh,Jul 31 2004, 12:27 AM-->

Should be a fun toy though....learn GOOD before those brackets....I have heard from Jason and others that STRONG welds are critical in that system....

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) [/quote]
Sorry to go off topic but I'll keep it short.

Good welds are mandatory. Stressing GOOD, not pretty.

I have had TWO failures. One I'm not willing to bet was weld related. And would bet otherwise. The bracket bought from Lane Automotive, just simply ripped apart. Flawed designe wasn't braced at the most stressed point. MY BAD.

#2 WAS MY FAULT. In my defence I was using an unfamiler welder. But the stock PHR bracket that I welded to ripped apart near the welds, BUT NOT AT THE WELDS.
Again MY BAD. This one required a new housing.

Dammit didn't I say I would keep it short. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)



One other thing. Jon are you ignoring my thread about modeling because I'm so damn dumb and lazy? :stupid:



Tell you what, and I ask this to benefit many and possibly including YOU...
I really want to KNOW what is going on with the different geometries of the suspensions both front and rear. In my current position I can do the work, but I CAN'T afford the software, especially with future plans for the car/racing budget...

I would still like to double check the measurements. NOT, REPEAT NOT beacause I don't trust your measurements, because I KNOW your the type of guys to take accurate measurments. BUT, because of my own piece of mind, and because eventually I would like to purchase my own software, (Probably Autoware, or Bill Mitchell)

What do you think of taking our measurements, and making say 20 different printouts in various states of rolls, steering angles, bumps, and maybe plug in any different changes we had in mind.

All for a fee, that would be a good bit cheaper than buying our own software, but still worthwhile to you. Possibly putting some money in your pocket if enough guys took advantage of it. (which plenty SHOULD)


What do you think????

[rmackintosh]

Here is a perfect example. I have discussed with another board mod about the level in which we are willing to help others who we compete with.

I've been working on something that is generally pretty damn simple. BUT, I have put HOUR UPON HOUR of research into it. Maybe it's just me but in this instance, for others to catch up, they need to bust butt, not have the info given away by me.

(I MAY OR MAY NOT GET TO THE FACT THAT I'M NOT THE JERK THIS MAY MAKE ME SEEM LIKE TO SOME)


What do you think????

Lonnie...

I TOTALLY agree with you. If a competitor came up to me and asked my help with fixing something on his car.....all over that.....THAT TRAIT COST ME A CHAMPIONSHIP...but I would still do it. If they came up and asked "...how do you like X......" or "...how does Y work on your car..." I would ALSO answer honestly and accurately about such things.

HOWEVER, if I had come up with a super trick idea that put me ahead of my ITE competitors by a second or two all of a sudden, I CERTAINLY wouldn't GIVE IT AWAY to them. If it was something simple like "Hey Randy, I noticed since you bolted on the Hoosiers, you are 2 seconds a lap faster....what do you think?" I would probably say, "hey, you are right....I think Hoosiers are the ticket and if you can swing 'em, I'ld do it..."

But if I spent time and effort building a better mousetrap be it suspension/engine/etc that was the ticket for me....I would SURELY downplay it and not give it to them...might say "....yeah, I did some motor work in the offseason..." and NOT let him know about the trick heads or supercharger I bolted on....there is a difference between helping your competitors out and giving them the info to beat you. Now since I "gave away" my championship....I am OBVIOUSLY (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif) ...on the more GIVING side of things than I should be, but there is a line of where helping is nothing other than giving away comp secrets that YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO...

...don't worry...you're no jerk.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

[ESPCamaro]

I remember the middle of last month at the Toledo Pro Sam's car had a set of bum bushings.

Now I'm not a Sam quality driver, but if not for my right side redlight I would have been ALOT closer. Which was a big deal to me, since it would have been my best showing EVER.

In this case it was different because he had done the same for me the month before, but I helped him swap front LCA's and that just made him kick our butt even more.

A little different because I felt I owed him. In this case I'll help.
I think this aspect of what we do you and I Randy are EXACTLY alike. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[mitchntx]

Here is a perfect example. I have discussed with another board mod about the level in which we are willing to help others who we compete with.

I TOTALLY agree with you. If a competitor came up to me and asked my help with fixing something on his car.....all over that.....THAT TRAIT COST ME A CHAMPIONSHIP...but I would still do it.

To put it all in perspective of what this topic was originally about ...
I quoted Randy and Lonnie ... but this is just for general consumption ...

If the same competitor came up to either you and, with a speech impediment, called the part he needed a "wha-wha-wha- what's-it" instead of it's proper name, a "whose-it" ...

would you

1) still help him because he's still a racer and we are all brothers in some form or fashion

or

2) verbally berate him in the middle of the pits for being an a_s_s-clown? Afterall, he should know how to communicate and know the name of the part he needs, right?

[rmackintosh]

...well, I think we all know my answer to that!

CALL HIM AN ASSCLOWN! :leaving:

Just Kidding....

Hey, I know a VERY FAST guy who has such an impediment....GUY IS LIGHTNING on wheels...I try and ASK HIM all I can......

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

...and I tried to keep up with him on the track.....ONCE..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) ......let us just say...he used the asphalt as a MERE SUGGESTION of where to put the car....

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

gots TONS of track records though...

[mitchntx]

...well, I think we all know my answer to that!

CALL HIM AN ASSCLOWN! :leaving:

Just Kidding....

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

And I figure most everyone's answer would be the same.

I guess what I don't understand is how when face to face some folks have one personality and when behind the monitor, they take on a totally different persona.

Everyone that knows me, knows that I'm a jerk, regardless ...

[GlennCMC70]

WERE IS THAT DAMN POPCORN SMILEY?!?!
(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Jon A]

3) Call you guys Assclowns.

Because:

A) Somebody with a speech impediment, can't help it. Those with legitimate language problems are cut some slack.

B ) Once something comes out of your mouth, it's too late. It's done, over. It either came out correctly or not. Nobody puts a gun to your head to make you hit the "submit" button without even looking at it first. You don't have to hit it until you decide people can read it. If you can type at all, there's no physical disablility that makes it impossible for you to hit the shift key. If you're too dumb to figure out how to use a spell checker, you're too dumb to be posting there.

A more accurate analogy would be you're the guy who needs help at the track. You walk over to a HUGE trailer of one of the biggest racing teams there. A team with a staff of mechanics and every tool in the world. Do you:

1) Say, "Excuse me sir, but I believe I'm having X problem with my car. I was wondering if I could borrow Y tool.... Does doing Z to the car sound like it's the right way to fix X problem?"

2) Say, "dude could U fix my car . what wrong? helll if i no. u firgure it out. u got al da the mekaniks"

CC.com has the most mechanics and biggest toolbox. If you want some help, you can put forth some effort in the way you ask for it. It's really the least one can do.

[94bird]

Very good point Mitch. I think the different personality that can be brought out by being isolated behind a computer monitor goes both ways.

On the receiving end of a question, you can say what you want. The guy can't punch you, right? As long as your virus and malware protection is up to date, you can do what you want. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
When I'm at a track I have very rarely been asked the same question more than once so it's also less likely I'll become irritated at the person asking the question. I also know they have no search function to spend a few minutes checking for themselves before asking me.

On the asking end of a question, computers make it so much easier to bang out a quick question and then be on your way to other fun links. You just sit back and wait for other people to do the work that way. However, computer forums also have pretty good search functions, and I do consider it irresponsible for a forum user to just ask a question without even attempting to do a search first. I don't get mad at them and call them an assclown, but many times I'll do the search myself and then send them a link. That's a subtle hint to try a search the next time.

[prockbp]

you can justify being an asshole a hundred different ways... but justification is only needed if you don't want the reputation of being an asshole.... but that's not the case... there is a certain amount of pride about cc.com attitude.. so why try and justify it?

just admit the facts.. "we're assholes" or "yah, some of us are assholes"

and then let the thread die... we could do hypotheticals till the end of time...

one thing though.. when people respect you, they follow you, so it's important to know how to lead... leadership is not a quality that assholes have

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif)

[rmackintosh]

Everyone that knows me, knows that I'm a jerk, regardless ...

....true...true...

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)

[rmackintosh]

2)  Say, "dude  could U  fix my car .  what wrong?  helll if i no.  u firgure it out.  u got al da the mekaniks"

...scary part is.....I UNDERSTAND THAT PERFECTLY.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)

CC.com has the most mechanics and biggest toolbox.  If you want some help, you can put forth some effort in the way you ask for it.  It's really the least one can do.

Problem is.....typically I am the guy with the biggest tool box and supplies at the track......sometimes I almost feel used....snif, snif.....

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Jon A]

there is a certain amount of pride about cc.com attitude..

You don't say. Is the sky blue, too? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[mitchntx]

I am the guy with the biggest tool box and supplies at the track

Randy, I'm your new best friend.

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

[mitchntx]

Jon I do not disagree with your points. We have similar frustrations with answering the silly questions. There are too many of them ...

I guess I would advocate ignoring the lazy questioner as opposed to a public humiliation. It takes as much time and effort to dress someone down as it does to just answer the question.

JMHO

[robz71lm7]

I'll try and be concise.

I like both CC and FRRAX. What I don't like about FRRAX is the lack of technical posts that CC contains. However, I also do not care for the excessive use of the F word and avatars over at CC-hey I like to read the forums at work between projects. I've read (and UNDERSTAND) the drive to win, how to make your car handle, and tune to win and more than once too. I'm hoping to get through Engineer to Win and the Milliken books this winter. I'm also planning on purchasing suspension trends analyzer this fall-maybe we can turn up the tech here. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I'm a mechanical engineering major so I love this stuff.

And yes Jon you're right the fundamentals are the same regardless of the make. I feel as if we miss some of the bigger picture by only reading what's here.

[mitchntx]

What I don't like about FRRAX is the lack of technical posts ...

I think it will come over time ...

[ESPCamaro]

Rob, I want to get the software to.

Maybe we could go in together so the cost isn't so damn expensive.

If your interested give me a shout.

[ESPCamaro]

And yes Jon you're right the fundamentals are the same regardless of the make. I feel as if we miss some of the bigger picture by only reading what's here.

The only difference is, Rob, (and Jon HAS agreed many times) that alot of the tech just doesn't apply to us. For the most part. In looking at some of the discussions about our suspension, those guys are working REALLY HARD to get close to us in stock form. Our geometry is just that much better.

Problem is alot of F-body owners don't understand WHY. And that is where/how some folks struggle to find room for improvements.




I already got the smack down for multi posting so...sorry.

[mongoosez]

I have been lurking in this thread, laughing as happily as anyone.
Being a friend of Mitch (can I say that Mitch? No one here really knows me, so it shouldn't mar your following), I can honestly say that the guys I have met at the track have been top notch people, that I would fight the battles of hell for. I dropped all my old friends for my new track buddies, and haven't missed them at all.

But I have one response to the lack of technical threads.

START ONE!
Or be an A$$CLOWN like the rest...... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[rmackintosh]

I am the guy with the biggest tool box and supplies at the track

Randy, I'm your new best friend.

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

....I am sure that is true....but FIRST....you will have to start racing at Sears Point, Laguna, and Thunderhill.....

NOW THAT IS A TOW!!! :leaving:

[Crazy Canuck]

What I don't like about FRRAX is the lack of technical posts ... 

I think it will come over time ...

If you build it, it will come.
Well... it's built... now it's just a matter of waiting till it comes. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif)

[CamaroFS34]

My two cents....

I've been a member of CC.com for a long time... I've never received a "smackdown." Why not? Because, I stay out of the political discussions in GD, and I search for answers before asking questions in the technical forums. It was quite a while before they even discovered the fact that I'm female. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Don't get me wrong; I can layeth the smack down with the best of them if you rub me the wrong way, but basically, think of CC.com as the internet version of a hardcore biker bar -- you aren't just going to waltz in and say, "hi." You are either going to act like you belong right off, or you will get your butt handed to you.

From my perspective, those who feel that CC.com is about nothing more than overuse of the "f" word and calling everyone an "assclown" is not even looking at the tech on that site. General Discussion is where most of the "attitude" and attacks occur. But then again, you've got just shy of 4000 members, most of whom are all alpha male personalities. Of course it's going to be a bunch of head butting, and if you can't take it, well, so be it. I know a lot of the guys on their personally, and, well, yeah, they will say the exact same things to your face. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

In conclusion, if you don't like it, well, you know what's coming next.....
(IMG:http://www.xecu.net/kiirenza/picture/dctour/CCsticker.jpg)

Karen
(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool2.gif)