[Absolut Speed]

Went autocrossing today as I often do. Some kid's Dad rolls over my t-top in the paddock area (the t-tops were flanked by my red tool box and a red and white cooler and a red helmet bag) He says sorry, gives me a phone # and leaves me with the mess. After he left I found the glass ripped the embroidery in the Firehawk floor mat it was resting on. My wife, who was feeling more reasoned, called him tonight. He won't order a t-top for me unless his insurance company says it was his fault. He said, "How was I supposed to see it?" Dunno, dark top top flanked by three red items on light colored concrete, seems difficult, I know. When my wife called back a 2nd time 15 minutes later (at 9:45pm) to mention the floor mat, he didn't answer the phone.

So now, I may have to order my own and Lord knows, could well end up in small claims court. The bad part is the 10th annual Firehawk Rally is this weekend in Ohio and I have no T-top.

(IMG:http://63.164.215.74/posts/ttop/1.jpg)

(IMG:http://63.164.215.74/posts/ttop/2.jpg)

(IMG:http://63.164.215.74/posts/ttop/3.jpg)

I'm ticked, so you'll see this on a few boards.

[prockbp]

what a jerk..

[Matt]

I'm really disappointed Scott!

I'm hoping you find one/get one ordered in time to make Friday mornings stop. If not, see if somone has one you can borrow (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Guy was a complete butt for doing that and walking away. I would make sure to rat him out to all his club mates so he pays.

Matt

[trackbird]

I had one fly off on the interstate last year (which did $1800 in damage to the car it landed on). I found a used one from Tripplet ASAP autoparts for $225.

Call these guys.

http://www.triplettasap.com/

800-822-5555

I'm not sure if they will ship one, but it can't hurt to ask.

I did see the same thing happen to the T-tops of an MR2 at an event this year. But he didn't stop, someone had to go get him (they did). I always leave mine in the trunk, I refuse to set them on the ground for that reason. Though, I didn't expect to see/hear of 2 incidents in a year.

Good luck!

[Jabberwocky]

Wow, bad day huh. I keep my T-tops and valuables hidden any in the car ever since someone rolled over my air tank. The tops I fasten in the back and the other stuff I hide under the passenger seat. I know it's against the rule, but I'm evil (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rant2.gif)

You'd be hard press to get a top that quickly. I once met a road racer who essentially built his own top out of sheet aluminum. Maybe you can do that as a bandaid fix. It wouldn't be too hard to fasten them so that they won't fly off.

[trackbird]

Triplett asap had me one in 2 days as I remember. They shipped it in to the local warehouse from wisconsin. I bet they can get you something. The dealer wants $700+ for the "glass kit" as I remember.

[Absolut Speed]

I'm not going to get too worried about the price, because I intend to make him pay for it (and the floor mat) one way or the other.


Here's the setup I remember, I don't know what was parked further down the aisles. (The Hesselman vehicle ran over the t-top.

(IMG:http://63.164.215.74/posts/ttop/4.jpg)

[kgkern01]

Where is the Firehawk rally at in Ohio? Is it the weekend of the 6th? Sorry to hear about your t-top.

[Absolut Speed]

Where is the Firehawk rally at in Ohio? Is it the weekend of the 6th? Sorry to hear about your t-top.

It's held in conjunction with the Pontiac Nationals Aug 7&8 at Norwalk Drag Park in Norwalk, OH

[shortbus]

That sucks man!

Geeze the nerve of the guy! He knows it was his fault. He drove over it!! I'd let your insurance company deal with the guy.

Property damage is still property damage.

When I was at the WOR SCCA Adam Brun drove over my stuff. Same thing.. cooler, gear, CHAIR, etc... My wifes sun screen spayed all over Waynes car. Typical Mustang driver.

Does not compare to your TTop but man I feel for you.

Some people just don't pay attention. I hope you can get this guy to pay up!

[slowTA]

Last year the guys from Red Bull came to an autocross promoting and handing out cans of Red Bull. Of course they ran over my stuff on the way out. My compressor got crushed and the guy left his name and number. Fortunately he was cool about it and sent me a check, much less than your t-top but still the same idea.

If you club has a forum like this and he starts to give you trouble, I would let everyone know how he is trying to screw you over. I wouldn't feel that great about bad mouthing someone like that, but the right thing to do is pay you.

[sgarnett]

You need to file an accident report with the police NOW. He has already passed on trying to handle the incident himself and keep it off the books.

Then you need to contact his insurance company and send them a copy of the report so you can file a claim with them directly. If he won't tell you who he's insured with, he can tell the police.

I'm all for handling things nicely if possible, but he's already chosen hardball. If you don't get things rolling quickly, your interior will end up being ruined by water damage, or at least you can't drive it out of the garage until it's fixed. That means rental car (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) You may not want the rental car, but you could settle for PROMPT settling of the claim to get your car back on the road.

[Absolut Speed]

Does a police report matter? It was on a private parking lot, and in the county no less.

And to clarify, the guy isn't a racer, he was watching his kid.

Edit: Police report doesn't matter because they won't take it. P.D. advised me to go to small claims if I can't work it out on my own.

[robz71lm7]

I would also notify the track officials of what happened and give them the names of the son and father. That's all I can add to what everyone else already said. Sounds like a real asshole-I wouldn't plan on this being easy. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif)

[mustbnutz]

Would the Club insurance for the event take care of the property damage? I wouldn't think it would be much different than if he had damaged the site itself.

[Absolut Speed]

Someone in the club also wondered if SCCA ins would cover it. The RE is filing the report with the division.

He called my wife today and asked if he could go 50/50 on replacing the glass. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rant2.gif)

So now I have to wait until his agent calls me, and maybe not until tomorrow. Apparently his agent said they wouldn't pay it. My agent says it should be entirely up to him and his insurance.

[slowTA]

I would hate to call an agent and tell them why my t-tops were laying on the ground. I hope your insurance doesn't have anything bad to say about autocrossing!

[trackbird]

When my T-top flew off and hit another vehicle. I was informed that it was considered an accident since part of my car struck another vehicle. If it had hit the ground, it would have been comprehensive. With that in mind, he hit part of your vehicle. That may qualify this as an accident and that may change things slightly. Just thinking out loud as I'm not a lawyer, I don't play one on the internet and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[Cal]

I had one fly off on the interstate last year (which did $1800 in damage to the car it landed on).

I had one fly off also!!! I was going 75 mph and it scared the crap out of me! I thought it might hit another car in the windshield and kill somebody. I was very lucky because it didn't hit another car, in fact the T-top was hardly damaged, just a few scratches! After watching it in the miror tumble down the freeway I thought it would be trashed, but it wasn't. This was on the way home from an autox, and I had been distracted by someone talking to me while putting them back in and forgot to latch it. After this experiance I felt like the most lucky dumb-a$$ in the world.

As for T-tops being ran over, I know it has happened in my club also. One of our sites has some islands with small trees on them, and that's where I put my tops, standing on edge leaning against the tree. I've wondered before if they could be stolen though, with as much as they cost.

[trackbird]

http://frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=1890

I think they will interchange. But check me on that.

Mike has a set for sale. $200.

[1997Z4CSS]

I had one fly off on the interstate last year (which did $1800 in damage to the car it landed on).

I had one fly off also!!! I was going 75 mph and it scared the crap out of me! I thought it might hit another car in the windshield and kill somebody. I was very lucky because it didn't hit another car, in fact the T-top was hardly damaged, just a few scratches! After watching it in the miror tumble down the freeway I thought it would be trashed, but it wasn't. This was on the way home from an autox, and I had been distracted by someone talking to me while putting them back in and forgot to latch it. After this experiance I felt like the most lucky dumb-a$$ in the world.

Your not the only lucky dumb butt here. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) :drive: I smoked my T-roof back in April. Same kinda thing. I was taking pictures inside the dash and interior then got distracted before I could latch it in...3 hours later I went for a cruise and decided to hit the hwy. I hit it alright, smashed into a gazillion pieces. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) I'm glad no other car got nailed with it. Freaked me right out (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[trackbird]

The lady that hit mine (the only car behind me within 400 yards, and I had just passed her) said she thought it was a floor mat (so you let it hit you at 75 mph????). I bet that looked interesting from her seat. It hit the front edge of her hood. I was 1/4 mile away from it when it came down. At 80mph, it just peeled off the car and was gone. I just kept looking in the mirror to see where it would land and I saw it drop into view and onto her hood. BOOM!!!

My insurance paid it, no problem. But, I've never had an accident and they counted that as my "free one" (9 years with state farm, accident free, you get a "free" screw up). I hated to waste it on something minor like that. Figured I should get my moneys worth.....

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[Absolut Speed]

I received a letter today notifying me that Mr. X's insurance has denied the claim.

"Our insured cannot be held liable for the T-top he ran over as he did not have knowledge the T-top was in his lane of traffic. I am sure if he had known he would of avoided hitting it. Therefore, I am sorry, we are unable to make a payment to you for the damage to your T-top."

Does anyone have experience with successfully suing someone for property damage in the paddock area?

[slowTA]

Man that sucks. Were other people keeping their stuff on the ground like you? If that was the case I would let his insurance know about it, try and let them know that you weren't in the minority and common sense would tell that guy to keep his eyes open. I would also question them about that lane of traffic comment... it was a parking space, not the middle of a lane, as if to say you left it where people were regualry driving. I'm thinking thats just some technicality they're using to get out of it. Ask them if they would cover the damage if he hit the rest of your car, or a lamp post, or a mail box... Did you send them your diagram?! It would be great if someone had a picture of the paddock so they could see what the true story is.

I got lucky when my air compressor was run over, they guy sent me a check by the end of the week.

[Formula WS6]

change T top to car in that statement see if it sounds ok then. thats lame. i hope it works out for you

[Absolut Speed]

Both of you brought up the two points that stuck in my head (after the grammatical error). 1) Since when is pulling through a parking spot into another considered a "lane of traffic?" 2) What if it was my wife or the entire car in the spot that he didn't see due to inattentiveness. Does that also absolve him of responsibility?

[Jabberwocky]

I don't think the insurance company grasps that fact that there was no lane of traffic. This is a pretty clear property damage case. Your property was on private property, he damaged an item on private property with his car. Make it clear that although this is normally a public parking lot. On that day, SCCA had full and exclusive use to it, hence rendering essentially a private lot.

Also, it sound as if the other person might have failed to tell his insurance that this was an autocross. Obviously he may have good reasons to since that might void his insurance. But since he won't own up damaging your stuff. Go right ahead and make sure to explain it clearly to his insurance company.

[CMC #37]

OMG! I have not been to many autoxes, however, I have seen this a couple of times! One time I was doing a school with some of the usual Southern California suspects on this board and saw someone run over a person's entire pit area, chairs and all! I think the proper and prudent thing to do would be to pay up immediately and not mention a thing to the ins. company. You never know how that will zing you in the future if you do, trust me! Read on......

I found out recently selling my house that ins. companies are all networked through computers and information sharing is instantaneous. A few years back I had a water main break under my driveway, most likely caused by the City I lived in installing a water meter on that pipe three mos previous. We made a claim to our ins. co and they paid us a measly $248 for some water damage to the driveway. The fix was about $3000.00 and involved rerouting around the driveway, a (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rant.gif) place to put a water main pipe anyway!

We wanted to recoup some of our costs, make sense, right? WRONG! Somehow, this got entered as "water damage" to the HOUSE, and the buyers of our house were denied homeowner's insurance by all ins. companies! Apparently if you make a claim on water damage in your house, you have to wait about five years before anyone will insure you again! All this for a measly $248, it was not worth this hassle. To complete the sale of our home, we had to call the ins. co and had them specify where the damage actually occured, on the driveway. They almost would not do that for us. Apparently exterior of the house water damage escapes the cursed water damage policy.

The bottom line is, if you can avoid making a claim, AVOID IT!

[jraskell]

as he did not have knowledge the T-top was in his lane of traffic. I am sure if he had known he would of avoided hitting it.

Sorry, but this is ABSOLUTE BS!!! He did not have knowledge of the T-top in his lane of traffic? It's our duty to have knowledge of everything in our lane of traffic. You mean to tell me that if I run over somebody while driving down the road I just have to claim that I didn't have knowledge the person was in my lane of traffic, and I'm off the hook? Ridiculous. This is nothing more than the Insurance Company making an excuse to deny the claim in the hopes you'll give up and they won't have to pay. It's a perfectly valid claim, but they're obviously going to make you fight for it. Thing is, your insurance company should be helping you here. That's the whole point of having full coverage insurance. They help you when you screw up AND they help you when somebody screws you up. Press back on your own Insurance fo assistance here. At least try to get your agent to call the other company and call their BS.

On another note, I'll also chime in on the flying T-top club. Not even a week after I bought my car (purchased used, last summer), washed it, detailed it, cleaned the inside. An hour later, take it for a cruise, jump on the highway, rip up to 90+mph. No warning, just WOOSH! I look up, my driver side T-top had to be some 80ft up in the air, at the snap of a finger. Landed in the ditch though. A few minor scratches along the interior plastic of the T-top, but it also put a small put noticable scratch on my roof section (the area between the T-tops and rear hatch) Still, I'm glad I didn't have to buy another, and I double and triple check my latches and locks whenever I take the tops off.

When I finally do go to an AutoX, I just won't leave my T-tops laying anywhere, period. I've worried about this and/or theft, or anything bad happening in general. I've been assured anything detrimental is highly unlikely, but I"m not even going to risk highly unlikely. The only way those tops will be left off my car at an AutoX is if I get written guarantee from appropriately authorized personel taking responsibility for any possible problems that could arise. In other words, they're just never going to leave my car (cause I know that sort of written notice will also never happen). If it's an issue, fine, I'll just go home. I'm stubborn like that.

[bruecksteve]

I've lost one too. I also have one for sell. Driver side.

[trackbird]

Do you have comprehensive? They would cover it if you dropped it (I'm quite certain). I know that comp claims don't affect my rates and don't count as accidents. I'd get it fixed and then go to small claims court. Take the receipt and sue him for principal. It's almost not worth the time for a few hundred bucks, which is why I'd do it. Make him take the day off, drive to the court house, etc. I think my replacement T-top was cheaper than a days pay. So, increase the nusiance factor (and sue for court costs) and file it. Get your witnesses (you'll need at least one if you have one) and where you got his name and number (the paper, etc). Get the time and date (before you forget), take pics, your diagram, etc. Just be prepared and you will have a good chance of getting it resolved. And, you can piss him off in the process. Don't forget the floormat!

[Absolut Speed]

I have comprehensive, but
1) My agent advised me, as I suspected it would, that my rates would increase
2) My deduct is $500 and total damage is just over $900
3) I already bought a new one. I took the car to the Pontiac Nationals last weekend (grabbed 1st out of 26 2002 Firehawks) and needed the t-top then. I keep the car in very nice shape, so I didn't want any ole used t-top that didn't match (color) or wasn't pristine.
4) Court is where I'm going unless my agent hear's different from my ins co. examiner. My agent acted like my ins wouldn't put up a fight. The only eye-witness is the guy's son who told him to back up. (so I'm told)
5) Unfortunately, court is 65 miles from me. Fortunately, it's about 75 from him.

[trackbird]

Ouch.

Comp claims don't raise my rates, or they never have. I broke 3 windshields in 2 years in a 2000 VW GTI VR6 (retail, $1450 each, State Farm paid almost $800 each) and I never saw an increase. I carry 0 deductible though.

[Absolut Speed]

Well, I'm feeling the love from my insurance company. No, they're not willing to fight this for me. Yes, they're happy to pay the claim after I pay the deductable, and yes they'll raise my rates if I do. (insert the love/heart smiley Kevin deleted here). But hey, if it's any consolation, they don't think it's my fault. Aww, how endearing.

So now I really am stuck with small claims as my last resort unless this guy develops a sudden change of heart.

[Absolut Speed]

We have an attorney on staff that did me a favor and wrote a letter to the other guy's insurance company informing him of our intent to sue if they did not pay up.

They still won't pay. My attorney doesn't practice in Iowa though, so he's trying to see if he can get a favor for me from someone he knows.

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rant.gif)

[sgarnett]

Are you going to sue the insurance company or the driver? I assume the driver - getting his insurance to pay is HIS problem.

[Rob Hood]

I would spend the money on a billboard near his work. Say something "nice"....like "joe xxxx destroyed my personal property and has refused to pay for it!!! Call Joe xxxx at (insert ph number here) and let him know what a bum he is!!"

Justice in this case may cost too much. Satisfaction will cost less. Just my two cents. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Rob

[Rob Hood]

What about complaining to the sanctioning body, perhaps in an effort to get the bum banned from entering any further events until he makes right? Arent they (sanctioning body) responsible for the safe conduct of an event both for participants and spectators?

Rob