[TOO Z MAXX]

Heres the story. Someone emailed the pictures to LS1Tech and they went ahead and posted them up for all to see. GM got wind of this and was not happy. Sounds like someone is going to lose their job over this.
Anyhow if you guys like the 1st gen, you will love this car. If you look hard enough you will find it on the net somewhere.

[marka]

Howdy,

http://forums.streetfire.net/showthread.ph...59&page=1&pp=10

is one...

Mark

[trackbird]

So far, I hate it. Guess I'll keep planning on a Corvette for the next car.

edit to explain that I like that drawing, I hate the version that was in the pictures.

[Chris 96 WS6]

Howdy,

http://forums.streetfire.net/showthread.ph...59&page=1&pp=10

is one...

Mark

That's NOT it. These were actual pics of a clay mock up at GM's headquarters.

That pic you posted is a Chris Horton rendering that is 2 yrs old.

[TOO Z MAXX]

Nope thats not it, but real close

[trackbird]

Nope thats not it, but real close

I saw the others, and I don't think it's even close. I'd buy that one (the drawing in the link above)....

[y5e06]

the above link is blocked so I don't know these are the same or not
Corner Carvers' Link

[Chris 96 WS6]

Yeah, that's them. wonder how long those will be up...

[axoid]

It's obvious a concept car not a ready for production model, but I kind of like it. I definitely like it better than the 4th gen. It has some reminders of the 1st gen, but doesn't seem blatantly retro.

I really like the amount of tire that's under it, no big wheeled skinnies on this one.

[prockbp]

that reminds me of a '70s mach1 mustang...

oh well.. if the drivetrain and price are right, i'll buy one

[trackbird]

I didn't like the 4th gen either. I'm not sure that I do yet. I bought it because of what it does/can do, and not how it looks. It's grown on me though (I'd still rather have a 3rd gen). I'm not sure either of those would grow on me though. The big blingy wheels (at least they are reasonably wide) irritate me (like the new 19" wheels on the Corvette....why?). And, I'm getting pretty tired of retro already....

Of course, if they bring back an F-body at all, it's a good start.

[Chris 96 WS6]

Well please remember these concept cars are often exaggerated in proportions and usually the final product won't have the monster wheels/tires and zero fender gap, etc.

[colonboy14]

Well, seems as though everyone has taken the pictures down, so if anyone has saved them, could you email them to me?

colonboy@ufl.edu

[Absolut Speed]

Well, seems as though everyone has taken the pictures down, so if anyone has saved them, could you email them to me?

colonboy@ufl.edu

I'm not above asking for an email of the pics either. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

sshumard@essex1.com

[y5e06]

done & done.

[rmackintosh]

Well, seems as though everyone has taken the pictures down, so if anyone has saved them, could you email them to me?

colonboy@ufl.edu

I'm not above asking for an email of the pics either. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

sshumard@essex1.com

...can I see too please???

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

rmackintosh@comcast.net

[mitchntx]

Well, I'd like to see them as well ...

mitchntx@charter.net

[Teutonic Speedra...]

Me too! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

teutonic_speedracer AT yahoo.com

[rmackintosh]

Thanks for sending the pix!

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

However, I MUST say that if GM builds ANYTHING remotely resembling THAT car....expect the company to go out of business!

THAT IS ONE UGLY MF'er!

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[nape]

http://community.webshots.com/album/518973697aeGssB

Not my page, but a help to those who want to check it out.

[CMC #37]

Eeeeew! Looks like a Musturd!

[rmackintosh]

Eeeeew! Looks like a Musturd!

....unfortunately.....it makes the Musturd LOOK GOOD!

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[trackbird]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who hates it......

[rmackintosh]

The drawing that guy did....I would buy the car in a second....

The car in the photos...I would'nt sell my worst enemy!

[AdrianTA]

Why don't the bumper lines in the front middle line up at all?

[Formula WS6]

nope not a fan of either one of those or actually of any of the renderings that are popular amoung the people. retro sucks. if you want to incorporate the past thats fine. the last style mustang had a grill design similar to the original. that was a good idea. a retro car though. no don't like it.

[35th_Anniversary...]

please send me pics as well underachiever@stny.rr.com

[CMC #37]

Indeed, retro sucks! What happened to going a new direction yet keeping the basic lines? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rant.gif)

[35th_Anniversary...]

looks kinda like a mustang....

I'm not impressed, but next vehicle i will buy won't be for 4 years and it will be a tow vehicle.

[BigEnos]

You guys are nuts, but everyone loves to hate I guess (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) . If they build that I'll buy it. Big if though. Stuff tends to get watered down when it goes from concept to production. Not as bad as it used to. We'll see.

This post has been edited by BigEnos: Dec 8 2005, 03:02 AM

[Absolut Speed]

looks kinda like a mustang....

That's exactly what I thought! Looks like a crossbreed of the current and last mustang on the sides and front. I'd rather have a removable hard top redline Sky (if they make one).

[Absolut Speed]

The big blingy wheels (at least they are reasonably wide) irritate me (like the new 19" wheels on the Corvette....why?).

As well, what's with only offering 18's on the Solstice Sky? Overdone styling trends more important than performance/replacement costs I guess.

[Lucas Black]

Why don't the bumper lines in the front middle line up at all?

if you look closely the lines don't meet up all the way down the car from front bumper to rear. the car is designed slightly different from side to side to somewhat have two car designs in one model. they can look at the car from opposing sides and sorta be looking at two different models....

[Teutonic Speedra...]

That thing is Fugly!!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) I don't like the interior or the exterior. I like the kid's drawing also....that looks cool!

[Bald54]

The rear quarters remind me of an early 70's Cuda.

[Rob Hood]

I'll pass, if that's their idea of bringing back the Camaro.

The orange car in the drawing is better, even though I don't like the recessed grille/lights, and I'm still not too keen on an overall retro concept, at least a first gen version. I would prefer a 1970-73 RS-style nose (look at some new Mercedes C class front ends).

However, if I can't see ALL eight cylinders when I pop the hood, I will not buy it. They CAN build a car that will live up to all of the previous generations' heritage and performance and keep the engine inside the engine compartment too, they just have to do it.

Whatever they do, please keep the Cadillac designers away from it. Anyone who can fold and crease a piece of paper could have drawn the current Caddys.

Now that the Solstice is out, along with the GTO, the only thing remains is pricing, which hopefully will be somewhere in between those two. If the Camaro's price is too close to either of those cars then sales will suffer for both vehicles.

[roy]

When you squint at the front view, it certainly looks as if there's a pony on the grille badge (instead of a bowtie).
That's not a computer model, it's a real clay mockup with a Dynoc skin over it. You can see that the model is assymetrical (that way you can cheaply evaluate 2 designs against each other) and it is standing on jackstands on an outside turnstile (so that you can rotate the model and evaluate it from a distance). It is still early stages when you go thru that process. When you get closer to reality then things like that slinky outside mirror will turn into something big & ugly. If the car is slated for 2009 then I am not so sure that the nose (as shown there) will comply with the 2010 "lower leg impact law, stage 2".
That chassis plan certainly has an IRS rear suspension.
The dash is plainly awful. usually when you have no creative design then you hit that retro sh*t

As quoted from a design engineer from Ingostadt.
I concur

[trackbird]

Whatever they do, please keep the Cadillac designers away from it.  Anyone who can fold and crease a piece of paper could have drawn the current Caddys.

I absolutely dislike the new Caddys. They look like they were chopped out of a block of something or another with an axe. Maybe I'm not completely alone after all.....

Wish list:

GM needs to give us 17" wheels, not 18's, no 19's and stay away from the 20's. Make them about 10" wide, put decent rubber on them, fill them with C5 brake parts this time (or similar), ditch the retro, make the LS7 optional in it (yea, right) and keep the solid axle (what did I say???) and make it a version of the 8.5" 10 bolt that was in the Grand National (or something stronger....bring back the 12 bolt?). We've had pretty good performance from a solid axle over the years and it's a bit of a tradition. Maybe I'm nuts, but I just don't want to deal with an IRS (wheel hop, broken/fragile half shafts, etc). Give us a real dash with real gauges. Make a trans temp gauge optional (the Corvette has one, doesn't it?) and maybe a rear end temp gauge (put it in the new 1LE package....), add an oil temp gauge and package it all in something nice to look at.....

[Chris 96 WS6]

Lots of enthusiasts are clamoring for a solid axle, but we have to be realistic.

1) this car will share its chassis with at least a couple other RWD coupe/sedans, some of which will be upscale. The IRS will be shared across all of them and it could cost MORE to have a Camaro only solid axle in the mix.

2) Enthusiasts make up maybe 5% of buyers...this car has to appeal to the masses, and the refinement of IRS, whether actual or just perceived, is important to hooking new buyers as well as getting women buyers, who make up 60% of Mustang sales and who walked away from V6 4th gens in droves.

The car's going to have IRS at this point and its going to be retro at this point. Wishing for anything else now is a waste of time. The time for all the input was really 2-3 years ago. With the success of the retro Mustang I think GM's course of action was cemented.

[marka]

Howdy,

I'm fine with retro, but that car still looks like a Mach 1 that smashed into a '99-'04 Mustang.

The other drawing was cool.

Someone needs to visit GM and remind them that round corners are still possible.

Mark

[KeithO]

I don't care what the car looks like. I don't car if it is solid axle or IRS, though I would prefer solid axle.

What I do care about is:
1) Price - the V8 version needs to be around $25k
2) Weight - it needs to weigh less than 3,400

If they get either of these wrong, we just have another GTO. The GTO blew it in both categories above.

[trackbird]

Lots of enthusiasts are clamoring for a solid axle, but we have to be realistic.

I'm realistic, that's why I titled that "wish list"..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

It's sad that Ford had such good luck with the Mustang that GM feels compelled to show up 4 years late with their version (I mean, hey, the just finally knocked off the PT cruiser....how many years did it take?). Again, I think it's great that they are considering bringing back an F-body. I just wish they were not 4 years behind the trend when they do it. It's a bit of a GM tradition to be "too little, too late" when they do things. It's unfortunate that they keep following what works for everyone else, but by the time they do it, people are getting over that trend. GM keeps boarding up the windows after the hurricane has already hit the beach.....

....this car has to appeal to the masses, and the refinement of IRS, whether actual or just perceived, is important to hooking new buyers as well as getting women buyers, who make up 60% of Mustang sales and who walked away from V6 4th gens in droves.

We need female buyers. I think Karen said it's pretty tough to get out of one of the current cars in a skirt/dress. To fix that, the new car will need to be taller, like a Mustang, and packaged in a more upright sedan chassis (not my choice, but that's the way things are). It needs room for groceries/shopping bags.

Gee, it needs to be a Mustang..... Didn't something like this happen in 1964 1/2?

.....and its going to be retro at this point.

True, but we don't have to buy it (which will promptly kill it again....possibly for good). I refuse to buy a car that I seriously dislike in the name of the "greater good". I'll buy a Corvette (and I've already been looking, I've been considering turning my Camaro into a C5 Z06 or a C6 Z51 car and if it wasn't for the stupid 19" wheels, I'd possibly already own a C6 Z51).

[conemark]

In a word, I'm not too much of a fan of the "retro" theme. In all honesty, I was hoping for a bit more third and fourth generation influence on the design.

Thing I like:
Independent Rear Suspension - Sorry quarter miler's, but that IRS should do wonders to associate the words 'Camaro' and 'sophistication' together. Here's hoping that it's at least decently thought out though.

Seating renditions - In all honesty though, will the "new" F-body see seats as 'wingy' as those?

Also, does anyone think the more upright form may make living with this car a little easier on a day to day basis?


All in all, I can't wait to see what will materialize at the Detroit Auto Show.

[ws6transam]

I'm planning on attending the auto show to check it out in person. I'm thinking that I may even begin stashing a couple hundred bucks away each month until fall of '08 "just in case". I've averaged $250 / mo. for the last six years on mods for the third gen anyway and I'm almost at the bottom of the wish list.

Time to start a new list. Now, what will it be? New Camaro? New Challenger? I'm liking the spy photos for the Challenger more than these clay models. one this is for sure, RWD domestics are not dead yet!

[robz71lm7]

It looks incredibly ghey, IMO. I was sick of the '05 mustang after a month. Retro is dying in my opinon. I predict an overpriced 4K lb car with IRS.

GM is dead.

If they want to make the 4th gen more appealing they need shorter doors and a taller roof line so the car is easier to get in and out of and so people like me can sit upright. IRS? If we get it it would most likely be botched, but it would be nice and is needed if you want it to sell well. Unfotunately nobody will realize that a well engineered solid axle rear suspension is better than a mediocre IRS, so it'll need to be IRS. Remember the guys on LS1Tech that think the reason their car handles poorly is the solid rear axle and not the decarbon's? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[trackbird]

I can save GM a fortune on this thing.

Just re-skin the GTO.

Why? I don't think it's going to sell anyway (without signifigant changes), so why put a fortune into building another GTO (which is where I think they are headed....heavy, bloated, sedan). Just reskin the pig they have and when it doesn't sell, they can kill it off again (and nobody will miss it after going out on such a poor note...or almost nobody).

Not that I have a negative opinion or anything..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)

[Chris 96 WS6]

I think the hot rumor is that it IS going to share a chassis with the next GTO. The GTO will be a little larger/longer though.

The concept may very well ride on a current GTO chassis just for the sake of convenience.

[Rob Hood]

Yeesh?!?!? A larger GTO??? That's not good at all!

OTOH, maybe GM could "morph" the existing GTO chassis to accept a lower-slung bodystyle that will allow the engine to remain COMPLETELY visible in the engine compartment.

I'd be OK with an IRS as long as it will withstand LS7-level HP. Otherwise, a real rearend would be better, at least an 8.5" 10-bolt with 30 or 31-spline axles.

And the 1LE package should be ready to win right off the showroom floor. If you're going to a gunfight, don't show up with a knife. Koni DAs, LOTS of spring rate, rear gear options, lots of deleted items, coupe only, killer brakes (w/o going to 18 or 19 inch wheels), etc. The 1LE should be able to run 12.6 or 12.7 off the floor and absolutely destroy the Mustang on the road course. And for that matter, a WRX or Evo as well.

[rmackintosh]

...don't know why all you guys are complainin' about being able to SEE THE ENTIRE ENGINE of your cars.....I CAN...












.....of course that required cutting off about 7 inches off of the cowl.....I LOVE IT NOW.....I can reach AND touch the back of the motor with my hands now.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) :leaving:

[Absolut Speed]

I'm realistic, that's why I titled that "wish list".....

That whole post is dead on Kevin.