[fireball25f500]

Anyone interested in coming out to Waterford Hills for the first open track day of 2006? All experience levels welcome. I will have my T2 car there. Should also be a nice group of 3rd gen AS Camaros. Contact me for more details.

Jeff
fireball25f500@yahoo.com

http://www.waterfordhills.com/otd106.pdf

(IMG:http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e230/fireball25f500/T2/MAY_0783.jpg)

[QUASAR]

Anyone interested in coming out to Waterford Hills for the first open track day of 2006? All experience levels welcome. I will have my T2 car there. Should also be a nice group of 3rd gen AS Camaros. Contact me for more details.

Jeff
fireball25f500@yahoo.com

http://www.waterfordhills.com/otd106.pdf

(IMG:http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e230/fireball25f500/T2/MAY_0783.jpg)

If the weather looks to be nice I will come out. Care to take a few laps with a newbie?? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[fireball25f500]

If the weather looks to be nice I will come out. Care to take a few laps with a newbie?? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Sure I will run a few laps with you. I am going to watch the weather myself. If it is nice I will definately be there.

I saw your other post about a drag car set up. If you are looking for tires, look here. Approximately 1/2 price.
https://www.hoosiertire.com/discontinuedtires.htm

Jeff

[QUASAR]

If the weather looks to be nice I will come out. Care to take a few laps with a newbie?? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Sure I will run a few laps with you. I am going to watch the weather myself. If it is nice I will definately be there.

I saw your other post about a drag car set up. If you are looking for tires, look here. Approximately 1/2 price.
https://www.hoosiertire.com/discontinuedtires.htm

Jeff

Excellent! I wouldn't mind someone who knows the track riding along for a little bit so I can get used to it. Even better that you are an Fbody guy. I appreciate it.

Thanks for the link. I plan on running nitto nt555r-II's all the way around eventually, seeing as its not an all out race car. If I make it out on Sunday it will have the R-II's in front, and the 555r drag radials in back. Same tread, different sidewall. Would you reccomend any of the hoosier road race tires, one over another? and how big of a difference would I see in a 16" racing tire vs. a 17"? I have my stock 16" formula/TA wheels that I could put race only tires on. What do you think? (for road race events I will switch to a agressive race brake pad if that matters)


Should be a good weekend. Drag racing on Saturday, Road Racing on Sunday. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by QUASAR: May 22 2006, 07:16 PM

[fireball25f500]

Excellent! I wouldn't mind someone who knows the track riding along for a little bit so I can get used to it. Even better that you are an Fbody guy. I appreciate it.

Thanks for the link. I plan on running nitto nt555r-II's all the way around eventually, seeing as its not an all out race car. If I make it out on Sunday it will have the R-II's in front, and the 555r drag radials in back. Same tread, different sidewall. Would you reccomend any of the hoosier road race tires, one over another? and how big of a difference would I see in a 16" racing tire vs. a 17"? I have my stock 16" formula/TA wheels that I could put race only tires on. What do you think? (for road race events I will switch to a agressive race brake pad if that matters)


Should be a good weekend. Drag racing on Saturday, Road Racing on Sunday. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

If you are buying tires, I would put 16" R (not A) compound tires on the car. You won't believe the difference. You could expect 4 seconds a lap, but more important will be the way the tire feels. I don't think a drag radial would have the sidewall strength for repeated track use. I would get them off the car if you have the money to. Look at the P255/50R16.

T2 cars have to run stock brake systems. A good combination is a set of road race front pads and stock rear pads. I run Carbotech linings. Performance friction 01 pads work well also. I don't like Hawk, but other have had success. Race fronts, stock rears can also help the balance that causes hop under braking.

See you there, and glad to offer the instruction.
Jeff

[QUASAR]

If you are buying tires, I would put 16" R (not A) compound tires on the car. You won't believe the difference. You could expect 4 seconds a lap, but more important will be the way the tire feels. I don't think a drag radial would have the sidewall strength for repeated track use. I would get them off the car if you have the money to. Look at the P255/50R16.

T2 cars have to run stock brake systems. A good combination is a set of road race front pads and stock rear pads. I run Carbotech linings. Performance friction 01 pads work well also. I don't like Hawk, but other have had success. Race fronts, stock rears can also help the balance that causes hop under braking.

See you there, and glad to offer the instruction.
Jeff

Judging by the picture, you are running stock 16" camaro wheels? Are those class rules? Would you gain anything from going to a 17"? You think 4 of those 16" hoosiers would be better than 4 R compound nittos? (probably, since the nittos are a street/track tire and the hoosiers are a race tire, just asking though)

I am running Carbotech XP12 front pads/new stock rotors, and Bobcat rear pads/new rotors. They worked nicely at Grattan, and that was in the wet.

[fireball25f500]

Judging by the picture, you are running stock 16" camaro wheels? Are those class rules? Would you gain anything from going to a 17"? You think 4 of those 16" hoosiers would be better than 4 R compound nittos? (probably, since the nittos are a street/track tire and the hoosiers are a race tire, just asking though)

I am running Carbotech XP12 front pads/new stock rotors, and Bobcat rear pads/new rotors. They worked nicely at Grattan, and that was in the wet.

Yes, SCCA T2 rules for Camaro/Firebirds require a 16x8.

I think a P275/40R17 road race tire would be better on the car. But it sounds like you have a spare set of 16s sitting around. I will start by saying I don't know the Nitto. In general a 16" road race tire (Hoosier, Kuhmo, Goodyear) will always be better on track than a street tire. This is regardless of the fact that it is a 17" tire. They are designed for that specific application. I recommend the Hoosier because it is about $150 each. That is a great price, if you have the money. The fear I have about your tires is the cornering compliance of the drag radial. I would expect the tire is designed to maximize longitudinal traction at the expense of lateral grip. If I am correct, the balance of the car is going to be very nonlinear.

Brake wise, you are fine. I would bleed the system before the event.

Have fun and see you there

[QUASAR]

Jeff, where can I get some of the Valvoline synthetiic 500 degree brake fluid? Is it the one thats on the shelf at any local autoparts store? RIght now i'm using the Prestone synthetic. The fluid is fresh.

I'm also looking for a full synthetic power steering fluid, and can only find the syn-blend valvoline.

Thanks
John

[fireball25f500]

Jeff, where can I get some of the Valvoline synthetiic 500 degree brake fluid? Is it the one thats on the shelf at any local autoparts store? RIght now i'm using the Prestone synthetic. The fluid is fresh.

I'm also looking for a full synthetic power steering fluid, and can only find the syn-blend valvoline.

Thanks
John

Murray's discount auto carries the Valvoline SynPower locally.
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail....rpartnumber=059

It isn't my first choice, but it is better than stock.

These guys have a lot of fluids. The Wilwood 570 is the same price as the SynPower and has better temp capabilities. The AP and Castrol are really good, but getting more expensive.
http://www.raceshopper.com/brake_fluid.shtml

Synthetic power steering fluid? I don't use it but go with the RedLine. I probably should. Racerwholesale will have it to the door in a couple days if it is in stock. They are local to the midwest. I have had really good experiences with them in the past.
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/

Sorry for the non-sponsor plugs, just people that I have had luck with.

This post has been edited by fireball25f500: May 23 2006, 01:39 PM

[QUASAR]

It doesn't say anything about the Willwood being DOT3 compatible. What fluid do you use?

[trackbird]

I usually order my Redline PS fluid from Stranoparts and he can get you ATE Superblue brake fluid as well (it's great stuff, I've been using it for years). It's better than the synpower and not expensive. I usually buy my ATE at Summit Point Raceway when I'm there every year, but Sam carries it as well which lets you combine shipping on one order (if you can't find it elsewhere).

[fireball25f500]

It doesn't say anything about the Willwood being DOT3 compatible. What fluid do you use?

I have 570 Fluid from Keith Averill. Keith is in Madison Heights.
http://www.racing-stuff.com/fluids.htm

[QUASAR]

I will give them a call. They are on my way home from work.

I saw on another site that the Wilwood stuff is DOT3. I just rather get everything from one place so i'll search around a bit.

[killer_bluebird]

That sounds like fun! Maybe I can convince my wifey to go on a road trip. My wife suffers from Fibromyalgia so traveling long distances is a bit of a challenge. It's about 4hrs from me. So leave Sat. stay at a hotel that night and Sunday night, Go home Labor day evening. My car needs tires (my front right is about to cord), that why I haven't been to the track yet + plus all the freaking rain. If I can't get a new set by then I'll have to use 2 of my WS6 rims with some spares skins in front. Oddly enough I still have decent amount of tread in the rear tires I guess I neet to catch up on my burnouts (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif) . Put me on as a maybe.

If all else fails BeaveRun is having a "Flat Out Friday" on the 26th. They are 2hrs away. I'm having racing withdrawals.

This post has been edited by killer_bluebird: May 24 2006, 09:04 AM

[QUASAR]

I have 570 Fluid from Keith Averill. Keith is in Madison Heights.
http://www.racing-stuff.com/fluids.htm

Stopped there today after work. He is a nice guy. Thanks for the suggestion. Got both the brake and P/S fluid I needed.

Thanks

This post has been edited by QUASAR: May 24 2006, 07:22 AM

[killer_bluebird]

It looks like a go barring we get hotel reservations done. But other than that it looks like we'll be there, I'll Look you guys up. Hey Jeff how do you pre-register? and What is/wasthe deadline? I mean saving $25 is an extra $25 for Gas.

This post has been edited by killer_bluebird: May 24 2006, 09:11 AM

[fireball25f500]

Registration information can be found online.

http://www.waterfordhills.com/otd106reg.pdf

I sent mine in this morning. Hope to see you guys there. Looks like some nice weather.

This post has been edited by fireball25f500: May 24 2006, 01:52 PM

[QUASAR]

It said that entries must be sent in by the 24th. I will call the track today and see if I can pay over the phone. If not I'll just arrive early and register there. Hopefully its not full.

[killer_bluebird]

Ok, Hotel reservations are a go, Registrations were sent, Tires ordered hopefully they get here by friday so I can get them mounted and then I'll have the car's alignment checked. I'm Really looking forward meeting you guys! See you in a few days.

[QUASAR]

Ok, Hotel reservations are a go, Registrations were sent, Tires ordered hopefully they get here by friday so I can get them mounted and then I'll have the car's alignment checked. I'm Really looking forward meeting you guys! See you in a few days.

What tires did you end up going with?

I will be flushing my brake fluid, p/s, and transmission in the next day or so to get ready.


Jeff, what motor oil do the LS1 guys run? Before Grattan 2 weeks ago I put in some synthetic 10w-40 because I thought the 5-30 might be too thin at high oil temps over a sustained period of time.

[fireball25f500]

Jeff, what motor oil do the LS1 guys run? Before Grattan 2 weeks ago I put in some synthetic 10w-40 because I thought the 5-30 might be too thin at high oil temps over a sustained period of time.

Can't speak for everyone, but for me Mobil 1 5w-30 is the ticket.

See you guys there.

[killer_bluebird]

What tires did you end up going with?

I will be flushing my brake fluid, p/s, and transmission in the next day or so to get ready.


Jeff, what motor oil do the LS1 guys run? Before Grattan 2 weeks ago I put in some synthetic 10w-40 because I thought the 5-30 might be too thin at high oil temps over a sustained period of time.

I went with Avon Tech M550 A/S (this is for my street rims) I was going to get Kumho ECSTA MX's but after reading reviews and seing Tire Rack's comparison the Avons sounded like they are going to work better for me. They seem to have just as good as dry traction as the Kumho's and have better hydroplaning resistance and noise qualities. I have a spare set of rims that I want to use with some R compound tires on, but until I get more seat time I figure it would be a waste. Plus I needed street tires as my Goodyear Eagle F1 GS are shot.

As far as oil goes I too use Mobil 1 5w30 and have had no problems (be sure to add an additional quart in so you don't starve the engine doing high speed turns at the track)

[QUASAR]

Ah, street tires. I have never heard of those I will have to check them out. Since I already have 2 of the nitto R-II's in the front I think I will get a set for the back pretty soon.

[killer_bluebird]

Ah, street tires. I have never heard of those I will have to check them out. Since I already have 2 of the nitto R-II's in the front I think I will get a set for the back pretty soon.

When I ran across them at Tire Rack it was the first time I read about them. They seem to be a good year around tire, they seem to better than the Goodyears Eagle F1 GS that they are replacing at least according to Tire Rack and they also seem to compare really well against summer only tires. The price is not to shaby either at $116 for 245/45wr17 and $155 for 275/40wr18 they seem worth a try. My car is daily driven (at least 2 years of the last 3) and have seen 2 winters. I ordered them yesterday and was surprised to find them today in front porch! Way to go to one of this site's sponsors!!! I'll have pleanty of different conditions to test them as I will be driving on them to the even and at the track so I should be able to get a good feel on how they do compared to my old tires.

On another note, How big is this place it looks like it is about 2 miles at least. The website doesn't mention any real track information in the "Track information" area. I was curious on how long and how much change in elevation. Anyone here has a track video of it?

[fireball25f500]

On another note, How big is this place it looks like it is about 2 miles at least. The website doesn't mention any real track information in the "Track information" area. I was curious on how long and how much change in elevation. Anyone here has a track video of it?

The track is 1.5 miles long. It is not a horsepower track, but it is a technical and challenging track to get correct. There are also a lot of elevation changes. Entry to turn 2 is blind and so is turn 4. Here is a link to some video from a Porsche 924.
http://www.vaughanscott.com/videos.htm

This post has been edited by fireball25f500: May 26 2006, 11:26 AM

[QUASAR]

Jeff, what gearing do you have in your car? 3.42? I am running a 4.10 and trying to get an idea of if i'm going to have to use 5th on the straightaways or not, and what gear i'll have to use in most of the infield.

[fireball25f500]

Jeff, what gearing do you have in your car? 3.42? I am running a 4.10 and trying to get an idea of if i'm going to have to use 5th on the straightaways or not, and what gear i'll have to use in most of the infield.

I doubt you will use 5th. I you will probably wind out 4th on the back straight and run 3rd most of the track. You might have to grab 4th again on the front straight and back to 3rd for turn 1. There will be a lot of time on track to figure it out.

My car is a 3.42. I can run 3rd most of the lap. It pops the rev limiter in 3rd if I get a really good run out of turn 5. 2nd in turn 3, 4th on the back straight for a very short period. Still playing with it to find the best combination. That is why I am running on Sunday.

[QUASAR]

At 6000 in 4th I think that puts me ~ 118mph. I don't want to rev past that, my cam is too large.

What is your rev limit set at? And what year is your car?

[fireball25f500]

At 6000 in 4th I think that puts me ~ 118mph. I don't want to rev past that, my cam is too large.

What is your rev limit set at? And what year is your car?

118 in 4th, you will be fine. Having never been there you will be spending more time trying to get a good run out of turn 5. The backstraight wall looks close to the edge of the track the first couple times around. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Completely stock 2002 Z28, for now.

[QUASAR]

Yea I've seen some photos, and that wall around the outside of the track looks a little intimidating. I'm definitely not gonna try to be a hero or anything haha.

If I can get a USB/serial cable in time, I will be bringing my laptop and tuning software with me. I could turn your rev limit up if you like.

[killer_bluebird]

The track is 1.5 miles long. It is not a horsepower track, but it is a technical and challenging track to get correct. There are also a lot of elevation changes. Entry to turn 2 is blind and so is turn 4. Here is a link to some video from a Porsche 924.
http://www.vaughanscott.com/videos.htm

Thanks, for the video. I'll check it out later tonite. Looking at the layout I figured it would be more techical than fast. In that site the guy mentions his best lap been 1:20. On my first time out at Nelson Ledges I ran a sloppy 1:21.9 and it is 2 miles. I didn't take video last time I was there so I don't know what times I was running but my line was a lot better and was alot smoother so I know I ran faster, there was a mostly stock Z06 that was running 1:16 times (the driver practically lives there (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ). Right now my main concern is seat time on different tracks and smoothness. Good times will follow.

This post has been edited by killer_bluebird: May 26 2006, 06:32 PM

[killer_bluebird]

Hey Jeff, I just want to thank you for letting me hang with you guys on Sunday. I learned a lot on the track and off. I was dissapointed that the brakes took a dump after the 4 or so lap. This pads where aweful (I had them laying around and I though the would at least be compareable to other street pads. I think these where axxis metalmasters) So I think I'm going to go with Carbotech Panther Plus for street and XP9 for the track. But overall inspite the problems we had with the hotel and getting there because all of the construction, it was a real blast. I'll post some video clips later on this week and include some of the more interesting moments where I made a complete ass of my self.

BTW, John what ended up hapening with you?

This post has been edited by killer_bluebird: May 30 2006, 07:43 PM

[QUASAR]

Hey Jeff, I just want to thank you for letting me hang with you guys on Sunday. I learned a lot on the track and off. I was dissapointed that the brakes took a dump after the 4 or so lap. This pads where aweful (I had them laying around and I though the would at least be compareable to other street pads. I think these where axxis metalmasters) So I think I'm going to go with Carbotech Panther Plus for street and XP9 for the track. But overall inspite the problems we had with the hotel and getting there because all of the construction, it was a real blast. I'll post some video clips later on this week and include some of the more interesting moments where I made a complete ass of my self.

BTW, John what ended up hapening with you?

Glad to see you had a good time. Sunday was HOTT!

I got back from Milan dragway mid afternoon saturday, and put the car on jacks to give it a once over and flush the brake fluid. Flushed out all the auto parts store stuff in favor of the Cartel 570 fluid that Jeff recommended. Got that done and flushed the P/S to redline synthetic. That was reaal messy, but turned out okay. I drove the car to dinner that evening and the brakes didn't feel right to me. Almost like there was air in the system somewhere. I was too exhausted to put the car up again, take all the wheels off and re-bleed so I decided to throw in the towel. Turns out the car stops fine when the brakes get a little hot, but kind of crappy cold. The fluid change made the pedal feel very wierd when cold and I wansn't used to it so I didn't want to chance it.

There is another track day there in early July, and that should give me the time I need to get rid of these drag radials and get 2 more RR tires. I also need to pull the valve covers and give the valvetrain a once over.

I would like to see some of those video clips!

John

[killer_bluebird]

Fun it was but yes it was very hot. Sorry to hear about your car. My brakes where very soft after the first few laps so I'm going to bleed them change the pads and see if that brings them back. I'm digitizing the video tonite so I'll probably posted it tomorrow after I edit it a bit.