[wannafbody]

saw a segment on the news about the 2012 requirent for vehicles to have anti-rollover potection. The technology uses braking and steering control to reduce the chance of rollover. do you think this will kill autocrossing?

[BigEnos]

I instructed at a M-Benz track day for AMG cars (basically people were invited to pay to drive all the cars around a racetrack and I got to ride with them/drive them (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) ). At the end we got some track time for just us and I drove an S55 around (was the only thing left). The ESP system is not completely defeatable or at least it wasn't on these cars. Well, the S55 didn't like me trying to save it in a skid because it started tank-slapping. Being a big car it just doesn't do anything very fast, and my reactions were either before or corresponding with the ESP system's actions. So I started to think about what was happenning (while it was happenning, like I said lots of time with a whale of car like that) and once I had scrubbed a bunch of speed off it settled down. The next time it started to slide I just punched it and pointed the steering wheel where I wanted to go and it just did it. It was tough to not try and save it, but the computer did a fine job and didn't nanny me too much.

And, this winter I got to test out my 330xi in the snow. Holy cow was it horrid with the DSC enabled! I began to accelerate across an intersection and it detected slip and just completely took control of the throttle. I was dead in the water doing about 5mph and absolutely not response from the throttle. Very scary. After that I disabled the DSC, I'd rather use my skills to keep myself out of trouble than lose my ability to control a car.

That said, for most people, traction/stability control is probably a positive thing. WRT rollover protection I don't see the need on most normal cars. They just don't roll over very easily. Big vans, 'utes, and overly tall econoboxes sure, but I just don't see the point on most regular cars.

[poSSum]

That said, for most people, traction/stability control is probably a positive thing. WRT rollover protection I don't see the need on most normal cars.

Are stability control and rollover protection not essentially the same thing said in different ways?

[BigEnos]

That said, for most people, traction/stability control is probably a positive thing. WRT rollover protection I don't see the need on most normal cars.

Are stability control and rollover protection not essentially the same thing said in different ways?

It can be, I don't know that stability control as it is usually applied to cars now implements sensors to monitor and correct for a rollover event or the precursor symptoms of such an event. From what I know of it as an "informed consumer", right now they monitor steering angle, yaw rate, and wheel speed and possibly 2D or 3D accelerometers (from which the yaw rate is inferred I guess). I know GM's stabilitrak implementation on Express vans employs anti-rollover, but on that vehicle it is desirable IMHO.

My worry would be that such a system in the future would sense a high lateral G-load and translate that into something that will lead to a rollover. Automakers are already looking at non-connected steering systems or systems (like on the Lexus that parks itself) that can actually turn the steering wheel for you. How long before they use legislation to forcefully implement "active steering" that can make "corrections" for you. I have heard that CTS-V drivers have had their cars go into a limp-home mode due to high cornering G's experienced at a racetrack and they've had to have the On-star folks clear it (after they called and asked if the drivers had been in an accident). Not good.

So yes, the sensors and controls are there, but the programming as it is now may not implement anti-rollover as one of its "situations" (vs. the garden-variety slide, push, or loss of traction under acceleration or braking).