[wannafbody]

saw a segment on the news about the 2012 requirent for vehicles to have anti-rollover potection. The technology uses braking and steering control to reduce the chance of rollover. do you think this will kill autocrossing?

[BigEnos]

I instructed at a M-Benz track day for AMG cars (basically people were invited to pay to drive all the cars around a racetrack and I got to ride with them/drive them (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) ). At the end we got some track time for just us and I drove an S55 around (was the only thing left). The ESP system is not completely defeatable or at least it wasn't on these cars. Well, the S55 didn't like me trying to save it in a skid because it started tank-slapping. Being a big car it just doesn't do anything very fast, and my reactions were either before or corresponding with the ESP system's actions. So I started to think about what was happenning (while it was happenning, like I said lots of time with a whale of car like that) and once I had scrubbed a bunch of speed off it settled down. The next time it started to slide I just punched it and pointed the steering wheel where I wanted to go and it just did it. It was tough to not try and save it, but the computer did a fine job and didn't nanny me too much.

And, this winter I got to test out my 330xi in the snow. Holy cow was it horrid with the DSC enabled! I began to accelerate across an intersection and it detected slip and just completely took control of the throttle. I was dead in the water doing about 5mph and absolutely not response from the throttle. Very scary. After that I disabled the DSC, I'd rather use my skills to keep myself out of trouble than lose my ability to control a car.

That said, for most people, traction/stability control is probably a positive thing. WRT rollover protection I don't see the need on most normal cars. They just don't roll over very easily. Big vans, 'utes, and overly tall econoboxes sure, but I just don't see the point on most regular cars.

[trackbird]

And, this winter I got to test out my 330xi in the snow. Holy cow was it horrid with the DSC enabled! I began to accelerate across an intersection and it detected slip and just completely took control of the throttle. I was dead in the water doing about 5mph and absolutely not response from the throttle. Very scary. After that I disabled the DSC, I'd rather use my skills to keep myself out of trouble than lose my ability to control a car.

The TCS and ASR in our Mazdaspeed 6 doesn't have that problem. In the snow, I can take off across a parking lot sideways (45 degree angle) with all 4 wheels spinning and throwing snow off in a big way. It lets me have about 5 seconds of sideways fun, then it just settles the car, pulls power back and straightens it out. It was pretty decent. When I tried to dump the clutch and clean a pair of tracks up the driveway, it killed my fun right away. It seems smart enough to avoid pulling off power in a serious slide, it gives you time and then just fixes things.