[ReEntryRacer]

I dropped into Laguna Seca a few days ago while I was heading back to Canada after a vacation in AZ. We watched the Audi bunch having so much fun that I have convinced my wife to support me in a long haul back down there this season with my SCCA-legal GT1 car. Its just production-based and nowhere near as fast as purpose-built tube-frame 'real' GT1 cars, but I want to try that track before I get much older/fatter/slower. I have joined SCCA-SF Region in preparation, and see three SCCA events listed, one in early May, another in late June and another in early Oct. I could REALLY use some advice as I prep the car and plan the long trip down from British Columbia. Is there anyone on here that intends to compete in one or more of these weekends? This old 'newbie' could use all the local information he can get! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
Larry

[rmackintosh]

I dropped into Laguna Seca a few days ago while I was heading back to Canada after a vacation in AZ. We watched the Audi bunch having so much fun that I have convinced my wife to support me in a long haul back down there this season with my SCCA-legal GT1 car. Its just production-based and nowhere near as fast as purpose-built tube-frame 'real' GT1 cars, but I want to try that track before I get much older/fatter/slower. I have joined SCCA-SF Region in preparation, and see three SCCA events listed, one in early May, another in late June and another in early Oct. I could REALLY use some advice as I prep the car and plan the long trip down from British Columbia. Is there anyone on here that intends to compete in one or more of these weekends? This old 'newbie' could use all the local information he can get! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
Larry

Likely I will be at all three of those events.

Pending my car getting done, and me finding a new job..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE I CAN INSTILL ON YOU IF YOU ARE GONNA HAUL ALL THE WAY DOWN HERE FOR LAGUNA IS........MAKE SURE YOUR CAR WILL PASS SOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Laguna is sound NAZI's and they have park rangers roaming around with sound meters nailing people......I see it all the time, folks towing for miles and they turn 4 laps all weekend because they can't get the car to pass sound.

This is assuming your car is sorted in all the "normal" areas and is fairly reliable.....

IT IS THE BEST TRACK TO DRIVE ON PERIOD, so I think you should come on down! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool2.gif)

[ReEntryRacer]

Thanks for the encouragement Randy. I see from your website that you had a big one at the last race in Laguna.
I hope you can recover from that severe damage in time to run the whole season.

About the noise issue; can you tell me the dB limit(s) for big bore cars? I play around with those fast GT1 cars here at home and we have to meet 95 dB taken at 50' from the track edge at an acceleration zone. I never quite get to 95 so I hope that will work down there. You have experience with SCCA GT and IT so maybe you can tell me how SCCA will want my car placed. I know its not IT-legal due to its age, and I'm not sure how they will view my underpowered car (~340 RWHP) in GT1. We have a run-what-ya-brung type of GT group here that allows any year of car as long as it meets all CACC/SCCA safety preparation rules. As well as CACC/SCCA GTS 1-4 classes, we have a GT-O (over 4000cc) class for odd-ball cars with rotary engines in Fieros and Datsun 510's etc. What run group do you think I'd be best in?

[rmackintosh]

Thanks for the encouragement Randy. I see from your website that you had a big one at the last race in Laguna.
I hope you can recover from that severe damage in time to run the whole season.

About the noise issue; can you tell me the dB limit(s) for big bore cars? I play around with those fast GT1 cars here at home and we have to meet 95 dB taken at 50' from the track edge at an acceleration zone. I never quite get to 95 so I hope that will work down there. You have experience with SCCA GT and IT so maybe you can tell me how SCCA will want my car placed. I know its not IT-legal due to its age, and I'm not sure how they will view my underpowered car (~340 RWHP) in GT1. We have a run-what-ya-brung type of GT group here that allows any year of car as long as it meets all CACC/SCCA safety preparation rules. As well as CACC/SCCA GTS 1-4 classes, we have a GT-O (over 4000cc) class for odd-ball cars with rotary engines in Fieros and Datsun 510's etc. What run group do you think I'd be best in?

Yeah, I got clocked pretty good. T-boned a Datsun 510....which I raced for 9 years....at over 100 MPH! He was WAAAAAAY out of shape and fishtailing wildly and came at me with no "warning" and I was stuck.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I am working on the car now. Just dropped the motor and tranny in this weekend. I WILL miss the season opener in 2 weeks for sure. I HOPE to get it together for the May Laguna race....round #2.

If your car is not tube framed, and you run on DOT tires....you will be elegible for ITE, which is what I run. There is no year cut off and there are plenty of 3rd gens that run....even an occaisional 1st gen. You will still be under powered for the hardware we see around here, but you WILL have someone to race with as ITE has a large spread of car type and prep. There are three rules:

1. Must be tub based production car
2. Must run on DOT tires
3. Must meet IT category safety rules

As far as sound....man, you guys are even tighter than we are! They attempt to put us in a 103 db window.....and most of our runs are that. However, due to scheduling we may have a 101 db session or two in there...sometimes it is a race. Since sound is set by windows, you can have the db limit change mid session! I will say this, many say that their car "grows" a few db at Laguna....ie if their car was a 101 db at Thunderhill....it can be say a 104 db at Laguna....just the way it goes. If you are that quiet, you **SHOULD** be OK. However, I would bring some turndowns, or other means to "tune" the dbs if you can.

If you have a fuel cell, you could run in GT-1 as well....you would be way under manned, but you could double enter in both ITE (group 1) and GT-1 (group 3) to maximize the track time you get for the HELLACIOUS tow you have in store.

Come on down!
(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

[ReEntryRacer]

Wow, you are a fount of knowledge! A couple more questions please:
1. Are Hoosier R5s or R6s considered DOT by SCCA? They say DOT on them, but they are radial race slicks in passenger car sizes. I use Hoosier radial rains too.
2. I normally use 4.10 rear gears, and never see 5th gear with my T5 up here. Can you guess what gears a T5 car with only 6000 RPM needs at the longest/fastest straight at Laguna?
3. I think I have all GT1 required items including 10lbs of Halon, forged bellhousing, DS loops, 22 gal. fuel cell. I still have a glass rear hatch with hoodpins only, no straps. Will that bounce me?
4. I saw something about a recently proposed/revised rule about NASCAR-like bars into the door rather than across it. If so, I will need to remove my aluminum inner door liners and do some cutting and welding.
Thanks again. You are helping me enormously!
Larry

[Blainefab]

Wow, you are a fount of knowledge! A couple more questions please:
1. Are Hoosier R5s or R6s considered DOT by SCCA? They say DOT on them, but they are radial race slicks in passenger car sizes. I use Hoosier radial rains too.
2. I normally use 4.10 rear gears, and never see 5th gear with my T5 up here. Can you guess what gears a T5 car with only 6000 RPM needs at the longest/fastest straight at Laguna?
3. I think I have all GT1 required items including 10lbs of Halon, forged bellhousing, DS loops, 22 gal. fuel cell. I still have a glass rear hatch with hoodpins only, no straps. Will that bounce me?
4. I saw something about a recently proposed/revised rule about NASCAR-like bars into the door rather than across it. If so, I will need to remove my aluminum inner door liners and do some cutting and welding.
Thanks again. You are helping me enormously!
Larry

Larry - Welcome back to Laguna! I don't get there nearly as often as I'd like to anymore. My shop is 1hr from the paddock and I work weekend evenings so if you have any problems needing cut 'n paste give me a call 831 427-3296

1. Yes, Hoosier DOT radials are considered DOT tires for ITE.
2. Of our 3 tracks (Thunderhill, Sears Point, Laguna), Laguna has the shortest straights - I never touch the rev limit there on my car (6300rpm, 4th gear 1:1, 3.73 rear = 128mph) With 4.10 and 6000rpm you'll top out at 111mph in 4th - sounds kinda low for even a mild motor - so you may tickle the limiter before braking for T2 and/or T5.
3. They'll want 2 straps of metal 1/8 x 1" top to bottom over the rear window.
4. The new cage rules recommend NASCAR bars but do not require them. They DO require 2 door bars on each side - "X" is good.

Enter ITE as your primary class and have fun with the hotrodded street cars in group1 and as a second class GT1 or SP (Super Production - another regional class) in goup3. Both groups get 101db sound - if you have a chambered muffler you'll be OK if the car doesn't rattle or buzz from vibration.

Rules are here: http://scca.com/documents/Club%20Rules/GCR2008.pdf review the cage tube sizes in appendix G. If you are ERW you'll need a SCCA logbook from prior to 2003 to grandfather it. Fire system nozzles in the fuel cell compartment, and it should be completely sealed from the driver compartment, including filler pipe. Any fluid carrying hoses in the drivers compartment need to be metal. SCCA patch for the driver suit, stickers for car. For assistance with SCCA license and race entry, contact:
Customer Service Colleen Worthington
530-934-5588 ext 100
colleen@thunderhill.com

[ReEntryRacer]

Larry - Welcome back to Laguna! I don't get there nearly as often as I'd like to anymore. My shop is 1hr from the paddock and I work weekend evenings so if you have any problems needing cut 'n paste give me a call 831 427-3296

1. Yes, Hoosier DOT radials are considered DOT tires for ITE.
2. Of our 3 tracks (Thunderhill, Sears Point, Laguna), Laguna has the shortest straights - I never touch the rev limit there on my car (6300rpm, 4th gear 1:1, 3.73 rear = 128mph) With 4.10 and 6000rpm you'll top out at 111mph in 4th - sounds kinda low for even a mild motor - so you may tickle the limiter before braking for T2 and/or T5.
3. They'll want 2 straps of metal 1/8 x 1" top to bottom over the rear window.
4. The new cage rules recommend NASCAR bars but do not require them. They DO require 2 door bars on each side - "X" is good.

Enter ITE as your primary class and have fun with the hotrodded street cars in group1 and as a second class GT1 or SP (Super Production - another regional class) in goup3. Both groups get 101db sound - if you have a chambered muffler you'll be OK if the car doesn't rattle or buzz from vibration.

Rules are here: http://scca.com/documents/Club%20Rules/GCR2008.pdf review the cage tube sizes in appendix G. If you are ERW you'll need a SCCA logbook from prior to 2003 to grandfather it. Fire system nozzles in the fuel cell compartment, and it should be completely sealed from the driver compartment, including filler pipe. Any fluid carrying hoses in the drivers compartment need to be metal. SCCA patch for the driver suit, stickers for car. For assistance with SCCA license and race entry, contact:
Customer Service Colleen Worthington
530-934-5588 ext 100
colleen@thunderhill.com

Alan,
Somehow I new I'd have to contact you about my plan. I've seen enough on this forum to realize you are the 'source' when it comes to race car prep in CA! Thank you for taking the time to help.
I can run my engine (almost stock ZZ4) to 6300 too (my limiter is set to 6350) but I try not to go there as my temps and pressures start to get less than optimum when I do. But since I usually do 1-hour races on a very tight track it may not be as much of an issue with higher speeds and less time spent in lower gears accelerating. The cage is ASN Canada FIA legal (1.75" DOM etc.) with a logbook from 2004. The SCCA GCRs say that all Canadian logbooks are accepted (9.2.1. D) and my CACC license is covered (in 4.4.5. F) as far as I can tell.

I have the fuel cell located within the old trunk/fuel tank area (partially cut out) with the top surface of the cell visible under the hatch, and the filler just as supplied (on the top of the cell). I closed in the rest of the removed 'floor' structure with aluminum, and installed a polycarbonate partition between the passenger area and the rear section per the 'alternate materials partition' rule. Will my use of expanding foam filler between the outer skin and the factory inner (speaker box?) structural members be considered adequate to block off the rest of the route for fuel/vapors to get forward? I can send pics if necessary. I have added a second 5 lb. Halon bottle and nozzle just for the fuel cell area. The other 5 lb. bottle has nozzles that point at me, and at the base of the carb.

I've never installed front or rear straps yet. Personally, straps on the outside of safety glass makes no sense to me, as it will simply explode if hit hard enough, but if that's the rule, then I'll attach them to the same bolts that attach the glass at the top, and bolt them to the metal hatch. Do I need the front inner ones if I enter GT1? I can't see them being any help either, as my 6mm windshield seems capable of surviving almost anything but an engine block thrown at it. But I realize rules are rules.

My exhaust (2 1/2 inch) has two simple glass-pack bottles, angled down just forward of the rear bumper, in the space on each side of the cell, with rear exit tailpipes. It seems to be 93-94 db with our noise equipment, so it should pass at Laguna.

The cage has two 1.75" tubes (~ parallel) between front and rear hoops on both door areas per the SCCA. It has two lower forward foot bars on the driver's side too. The front hoop also has extensions into the engine bay, and they attach at the strut towers as allowed by GT rules. Some original pictures during construction are on my (very outdated) website, www.ReEntryRacing.com which might explain what I'm saying.

My car is in the paint shop getting a new scheme, and I'll be able to start re-installing everything in a week or two. I will aim (work schedule permitting) at the May 5-6 Regional at Laguna, and failing that, the Double Regional June 27-29. I think I'm as stoked as an old guy gets about this, as Laguna Seca has always been on my 'Bucket List'. I hope I can meet some of the people on this site when I get down there, and thank you and Randy in person!

Larry Bell

[rmackintosh]

I've never installed front or rear straps yet. Personally, straps on the outside of safety glass makes no sense to me, as it will simply explode if hit hard enough, but if that's the rule, then I'll attach them to the same bolts that attach the glass at the top, and bolt them to the metal hatch. Do I need the front inner ones if I enter GT1? I can't see them being any help either, as my 6mm windshield seems capable of surviving almost anything but an engine block thrown at it. But I realize rules are rules.

Larry Bell

Hey Larry!

I think with stock windows window clips should be sufficient. I will try and look at my book when I get home.

Personally I ran my 4th gen with a stock rear window for 4 years now with NO CLIPS or STRAPS and I was fine. GT-1 may be different.

Randy

This post has been edited by rmackintosh: Mar 20 2008, 09:38 PM