[GlennCMC70]

there is no 220V service in my garage - thats about to change.

i picked up a 250V 30A outlet (3 slots arranged in a circle w/ one looking like a "L") which matches the plug on the welder.
i have a 30A breaker that takes up two slots in the breaker panel for the house (located in the garage!)
i have some new 10 gauge 3 conductor wire (black, white, and green conductors).
snap the breaker in place - make sure its switched off.
install a black and white conductor in one of the two set screw slots in the 30A breaker.
connect the other ends of the black/white to the outlet and the ground to the ground on the back of the outlet and inside the breaker panel (metal box).


to be honest here, the only thing i know about A/C electricity is it can kill you. other than that, i don't know jack. i can replace a bad outlet/socket/switch, but i couldnt wire any 110v circuit from the box to the wall if i had to.

so does the above sound right? i know there should normally be a red wire to use in place of the white, but i've read thats really only required for 4 prong plug/outlets.

looking for the FRAXX guidance here oh wise one's. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/drink.gif)

[nape]

As ironic as this is going to sound, I had an electrical issue at the hotel I'm staying at tonight.

I started noticing a "zip zip" or "bzzzt" sound. At first, I thought it was just the hard drive on my laptop which was on the desk and I was sitting on the bed. Then, my laptop went to sleep and I still noticed the sound but it was coming from the direction of the door. After a while, I noticed it seemed to be coming from the wall outlet. Sure enough, I turned off the lights in the room and could see an arc behind the trim plate.

Yet another irony, I left my tool bag in the back of another guy's truck today so I brought them into my room for the night. So, I took off the trim plate and the hot wire on the receptacle is arcing away and melting the recept. I went up to the front and talked to the desk girl (who likes us, 8 guys from the contractor are staying here). I didn't want to move rooms so I offered to fix it for the night.

Anyway, the issue with the wiring is that the lazy (or unknowing) person who wired this place up didn't bother to pig tail the recepts and just decided to hook and go on each side of the recept. The problem with this technique is that it puts the device in series with the circuit and depends on the device to take the load of everything on the circuit, not just what is on that recept. The other issue that I found is that the convenience recepts for the same room number on different floors (ex. 102, 202, 302) share the same circuit. Therefore, there is the opportunity for 3 mini fridges, 3 microwaves, 3 alarm clocks, 9 lamps plus whatever the renter plugs in to be on the same 15A breaker on #14 wire.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, I found out the whole place is wired in Romex.

Are you glad that the owner of the building was able to save money building the place now that you know some of what goes on? Strict codes may cost more initially, but piece of mind is worth it in the long run. The same goes for the trained craftsmen that build these buildings and know the codes vs. guys off the street with a pair of wire strippers.

Support your local IBEW Electricians and build Union (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

PS- I used the microwave to make mini pizzas tonight. Tomorrow, I think I'll go to Subway and leave the electrical work at work. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

This post has been edited by nape: Nov 11 2008, 04:24 AM

[Torque]

Anyway, the issue with the wiring is that the lazy (or unknowing) person who wired this place up didn't bother to pig tail the recepts and just decided to hook and go on each side of the recept. The problem with this technique is that it puts the device in series with the circuit and depends on the device to take the load of everything on the circuit, not just what is on that recept. The other issue that I found is that the convenience recepts for the same room number on different floors (ex. 102, 202, 302) share the same circuit. Therefore, there is the opportunity for 3 mini fridges, 3 microwaves, 3 alarm clocks, 9 lamps plus whatever the renter plugs in to be on the same 15A breaker on #14 wire.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, I found out the whole place is wired in Romex.

Are you glad that the owner of the building was able to save money building the place now that you know some of what goes on? Strict codes may cost more initially, but piece of mind is worth it in the long run. The same goes for the trained craftsmen that build these buildings and know the codes vs. guys off the street with a pair of wire strippers.

Support your local IBEW Electricians and build Union (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

PS- I used the microwave to make mini pizzas tonight. Tomorrow, I think I'll go to Subway and leave the electrical work at work. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Wow, that's intense. By pigtail, does that mean you have a hot, neutral and ground wire already screwed (solidly) into the receptacle and you use a wire nut to join the pigtail and the other up and downstream (for lack of a better term) wires rather than using all the screws on the receptacle to secure the wires? Is that usually a code thing or just a best practice?

Glad you made it out ok and hope at least the smoke detector works in that place.

[nape]

Wow, that's intense. By pigtail, does that mean you have a hot, neutral and ground wire already screwed (solidly) into the receptacle and you use a wire nut to join the pigtail and the other up and downstream (for lack of a better term) wires rather than using all the screws on the receptacle to secure the wires? Is that usually a code thing or just a best practice?

Glad you made it out ok and hope at least the smoke detector works in that place.

Correct, that's what I mean by pigtail. The other thing is that wire nuts are just "splice caps". Some wire nuts claim to be able to make a correct splice by just putting 2, 3, etc wires inside then just turning. That's BS, you should always twist the wires clockwise with a pair of side cutters (lineman's pliers, etc) to make your splice, then tighten the wire cap on clockwise to cover the connection. That way, you have a chance of working it hot if you need to and the splice won't open up just by taking the wire cap off.

As far as not hooking two wires on a side and/or terminal, it is best practice always and it is code in Chicago. The same goes for stabbing solid wire in the holes on the back of the receptacle, best practice to not do it and it's illegal by Chicago code. It's more likely to loosen up over time and at that point there isn't anything holding it in. At least by making a hook on the wire (clockwise) and putting it under a side screw, it's less likely to come off even if it does loosen up.

Also, when stripping solid wire (which includes Romex) practice not knicking the wire. A knick in the wire is a pre-failure and if you do have a problem or when the wire becomes old and brittle, it'll be most likely to fail there.

ALWAYS, Hot on top, ground down. - meaning, put the hot wire on the top brass colored screw if mounted vertical or either screw mounted horizontal, the neutral on the lower silver screw if mounted vertical or the opposite silver screw if mounted horizontal, and the ground screw should be down or on the bottom.

If everyone would follow the rules, this stuff would be easy...

[Torque]

Wow, that's intense. By pigtail, does that mean you have a hot, neutral and ground wire already screwed (solidly) into the receptacle and you use a wire nut to join the pigtail and the other up and downstream (for lack of a better term) wires rather than using all the screws on the receptacle to secure the wires? Is that usually a code thing or just a best practice?

Glad you made it out ok and hope at least the smoke detector works in that place.

Correct, that's what I mean by pigtail. The other thing is that wire nuts are just "splice caps". Some wire nuts claim to be able to make a correct splice by just putting 2, 3, etc wires inside then just turning. That's BS, you should always twist the wires clockwise with a pair of side cutters (lineman's pliers, etc) to make your splice, then tighten the wire cap on clockwise to cover the connection. That way, you have a chance of working it hot if you need to and the splice won't open up just by taking the wire cap off.

As far as not hooking two wires on a side and/or terminal, it is best practice always and it is code in Chicago. The same goes for stabbing solid wire in the holes on the back of the receptacle, best practice to not do it and it's illegal by Chicago code. It's more likely to loosen up over time and at that point there isn't anything holding it in. At least by making a hook on the wire (clockwise) and putting it under a side screw, it's less likely to come off even if it does loosen up.

Also, when stripping solid wire (which includes Romex) practice not knicking the wire. A knick in the wire is a pre-failure and if you do have a problem or when the wire becomes old and brittle, it'll be most likely to fail there.

ALWAYS, Hot on top, ground down. - meaning, put the hot wire on the top brass colored screw if mounted vertical or either screw mounted horizontal, the neutral on the lower silver screw if mounted vertical or the opposite silver screw if mounted horizontal, and the ground screw should be down or on the bottom.

If everyone would follow the rules, this stuff would be easy...

Thx for the info. Very helpful. That seems to be what the electricians did with some of the work they did in my kitchen (I did most of it) and I followed their lead. However I'm thinking I may not have followed those rules in the garage and bathroom I'm working on so I'll go back and double check. Good info, thx!