[Major_Lee_Slow]

I've always had a soft spot for the Z-Cars ever since the early 70's, and I just read the Car and Driver short review of the car and I must say, at least on paper, I am impressed. the exterior dimensions and the wheelbase were shrunk and the HP is up to 330, but torque is a little low at 270. I wonder how much that can be improved. The wheels are a little bit, 19 inches, but hey at least there not 20's. It also comes with 4 piston brakes. They managed to keep the weight at 3300-3400 lbs, meet the new crash test standards, and Nissan claims the car is stiffer than the last model. The question is, will it be a competitive Street Prepaired car. I think the current model runs in BSP. Could this be a potential replacement for the SS when the time comes. I'm not sure, but I do know for sure I won't be buying a 2 Ton pig.

[ESPCamaro]

At least in S/P autox trim, cars that start very heavy have more weight to lose with simple parts substitutions.....

I would be willing to bet that the wheels/tires, exhuast, seats and battery are absolutely rediculas massive on that car.

Just a guess but I'd say a 3500lb S/P 5th gen Camaro is possible.....Maybe less.......

[StanIROCZ]

GM vehicles tend to be heavier because they want to have a safe, 5 star rated, corporate culture. Every single GM vehicle will be 5 star at some point. Nissan doesn't seem interested in that route.

I have my 3rd gen gutted to the point where I can see, touch, and feel the sheet metal in the cowl, a-pillar, windshield, and roof. Lord help me if I get into an accident that has any significant impact in these areas. There ain't much there. My 3rd gen (3500 lbs loaded with options from the factory) is no where close to being as strong/stiff/safe as these newer cars. Think about when the 3rd gen or even the 4th gen (much of which was based off the 3rd gen) was designed. Think about the analysis tools that were available then versus now. And rash technology has come along way since then. I'm not sure if crash rating existed or was even a concern then or not (I don't know, I was born in 1980).

I've seen real life cut-aways of C6 vettes and Mid-size GM cars - No comparison to my 3rd gen. I'd venture to guess that a roll cage in a newer car is very much redundant.

Here's the thing that still gets me. The Nissan and the Vette for that matter, do have luxury items such as fancy radios's GPS, power everything, A/C etc and they don't weight 3900 lbs which is the projected weight of the new Camaro. Seriously, this is just stupid heavy. I could have considered 3500, but there is no way in hell I'm plunking down some hard earned cash for a "sports car" that weights close to 2 Tons.

You're comparing 2 seat sports cars to basically a 2 door 4 seat (I dare say) sedan (built off the same platform as the G8 etc). In the case of the Nissan you are comparing a sports car with a lighter driveline to a sedan with a heavier and more powerful driveline. In the case of a Vette you are comparing the Sedan to a sports car that should be priced about 10k$ higher which has a lot of aluminum (subframe and suspension etc), which will drive the price up even on the base model.

If you want to compare the new camaro to the old ones, look at what has changed since then. Emission and crash standards are much more strict. The bar has been significatly raised for quality and warranty.

I hate the fact that the new camaro is a pig but I understand the pressures on the OEM's. Make it cheap, make if safe, make it fast, make it fuel efficient, make it emission compliant, make it light, make it quality/reliablity/low warranty, make it quiet. You can't have it all. And GM is always the bullseye when it comes to comparisons. They get a lot of undeserving shit flung at them in Mag reviews, IMO. And the Japanese cheat.

One thing that I regret though is I think they could have saved some weight and cost (at the expense of unsprung weight) if they had went with a beam axle instead. I wouldn't mind that instead of the IRS for this "muscle car". The mustang, which is its direct competitor, has it.