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> New Economy and Emissions Standards, 1973 all over again?
KeithO
post May 19 2009, 04:59 PM
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The supposed standards about to be enacted might make performance cars more difficult to get for a while. I am wondering if we aren't looking at new-car performance similar to what we saw from 1973 through around 1987...

This is just more motivation for me to maintain my f-body.

Do you guys think that we will be able to achieve this? Regardless, how slow do you think new cars will get before performance returns?
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CMC#5
post Jun 5 2009, 08:35 PM
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The glass is half full
The glass is half empty
The stuff in the glass is piss (Mitch)

10yrs from now we'll be talking about ultra-capacitors, enabling higher currents, modifying motor controlllers, super-cooling brushless motors...and probably accelerating faster than our cars can today.
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Mojave
post Jun 6 2009, 01:12 AM
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QUOTE (CMC#5 @ Jun 5 2009, 03:35 PM) *
The glass is half full
The glass is half empty
The stuff in the glass is piss (Mitch)

10yrs from now we'll be talking about ultra-capacitors, enabling higher currents, modifying motor controlllers, super-cooling brushless motors...and probably accelerating faster than our cars can today.


Batteries and capacitors are heavy, so are big electric motors. Comparing energy storage, the energy density of gasoline is 46 mJ/kg. Good lithium ion batteries are around .45 mJ/kg. That's right, two orders of magnitude of difference, and some of the new lithium ion batteries (like A123's) are very good but don't hold a candle to gasoline in terms o energy storage. Ultra capacitors are even worse, with the best coming in at .1 mJ/kg, with many at .05 mJ/kg. That's 3 orders of magnitude worse.

For going fast, I still want gasoline. Energy storage and electric motors are getting lighter, but gasoline is good, good stuff.
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Posts in this topic
KeithO   New Economy and Emissions Standards   May 19 2009, 04:59 PM
trackbird   The Corvette can do it, or get really close (not s...   May 19 2009, 05:05 PM
CMC#5   I have no idea why in a country with as many intel...   May 19 2009, 06:13 PM
trackbird   Yea, but if you tax fuel to $5 a gallon, you...   May 19 2009, 06:56 PM
mitchntx   Al works in the petroleum industry ... of course h...   May 19 2009, 07:13 PM
00 SS   Well let's take a broader look at this. Right...   May 19 2009, 07:51 PM
00 Trans Ram   stupid - but I don't much care.There is no car...   May 19 2009, 08:35 PM
StanIROCZ   The good thing about this is that cars are going t...   May 19 2009, 08:50 PM
nape   As a middle leaning Democrat, I think I need to ru...   May 20 2009, 03:58 AM
prockbp   39 mpg for cars by 2016.... What is the problem w...   May 20 2009, 06:28 AM
Todd   QUOTE (prockbp @ May 20 2009, 02:28 AM) 3...   May 20 2009, 02:14 PM
CMC#5   I only used the Prius and Fiesta as examples of US...   May 20 2009, 02:07 PM
mitchntx   QUOTE (CMC#5 @ May 20 2009, 09:07 AM) Tax...   May 20 2009, 04:21 PM
trackbird   I think you'd be farther ahead to implement a ...   May 20 2009, 02:31 PM
bubba353z   QUOTE (trackbird @ May 20 2009, 10:31 AM)...   May 20 2009, 03:41 PM
00 Trans Ram   I don't get it. The overall environmental impa...   May 20 2009, 02:38 PM
KeithO   I guess I have a unique perspective. I think this...   May 20 2009, 02:49 PM
TOO Z MAXX   QUOTE (KeithO @ May 20 2009, 09:49 AM) I ...   May 25 2009, 11:20 PM
00 SS   Keith, I wouldn't call that opinion unique. I...   May 20 2009, 03:09 PM
sgarnett   I'm becoming ever more convinced that "fr...   May 20 2009, 04:08 PM
CMC#5   No worries Mitch, I know you're easily confuse...   May 20 2009, 05:18 PM
sgarnett   Somewhere between Chicken Little and the Grasshopp...   May 27 2009, 11:41 AM
sgarnett   Al, I'm not even suggesting anything as lofty ...   May 28 2009, 11:22 AM
tx_warrior   QUOTE (sgarnett @ May 28 2009, 06:22 AM) ...   May 28 2009, 02:46 PM
sgarnett   QUOTE (tx_warrior @ May 28 2009, 10:46 AM...   May 28 2009, 03:03 PM
c4racer   And of course, we wouldn't want to do anything...   Jun 4 2009, 05:56 AM
sgarnett   What happened? Oil was cheap for a few months. Tha...   Jun 4 2009, 11:20 AM
cccbock   QUOTE (sgarnett @ Jun 4 2009, 07:20 AM) W...   Jun 4 2009, 01:00 PM
mitchntx   QUOTE (cccbock @ Jun 4 2009, 08:00 AM) I ...   Jun 4 2009, 01:35 PM
cccbock   For electric power, I think nuclear and solar are ...   Jun 4 2009, 02:07 PM
CMC#5   Ideally we'd want to be the first to not requi...   Jun 4 2009, 12:51 PM
c4racer   I think the most chilling view into the future of ...   Jun 4 2009, 04:06 PM
Eskimo   QUOTE (c4racer @ Jun 4 2009, 12:06 PM) Wh...   Jun 4 2009, 06:42 PM
KeithO   Eskimo - That was part of the reason that I starte...   Jun 4 2009, 07:14 PM
cccbock   QUOTE (KeithO @ Jun 4 2009, 03:14 PM) Esk...   Jun 5 2009, 03:58 PM
sgarnett   I see a lot of auto parts in my future, but no new...   Jun 4 2009, 11:26 PM
CMC#5   The glass is half full The glass is half empty The...   Jun 5 2009, 08:35 PM
Mojave   QUOTE (CMC#5 @ Jun 5 2009, 03:35 PM) The ...   Jun 6 2009, 01:12 AM
mitchntx   QUOTE (CMC#5 @ Jun 5 2009, 03:35 PM) The ...   Jun 6 2009, 02:03 AM
sgarnett   There is something good that comes from mpg - ligh...   Jun 5 2009, 10:38 PM
sgarnett   Isn't Formula One using regenerative braking n...   Jun 6 2009, 02:18 AM
Mojave   QUOTE (sgarnett @ Jun 5 2009, 09:18 PM) I...   Jun 6 2009, 05:37 AM

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