[TPIJAY]

Hello all,

Figured I'd introduce myself beings I have been poking around for a bit now. My name is Jay and my father Jim(Zfactor 56) and I are building a track car out of an 86 Firebird SE we picked up back in 2004. We auto crossed it a lil bit after we first got it, till we fried the computer. We managed to pick up an 89 Formula for a donor car. As of right now we have the stock drive train from the 86(305 carbed, 5 spd, drum rear) in it. The car has the WS6 springs and sway bars off the 89, along with a wonderbar, ADCO panhard bar and SA Koni's we picked up from Stranos. We are undergoing a long lists of mods to get it ready for some HPDE so I can hurry up and get my butt into running TT with NASA. We are starting to get some of the parts in for the engine rebuild(89 donor motor). We are hopeing to be putting out roughly 400HP and 400+TQ, at the flywheel. We are putting on a set of Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, Performer RPM air gap, Comp roller rockers, Cloyes dual roller timing set, an Edelbrock roller cam, Holley Carb(size and model undetermined yet), ATI super dampner, Fidanza flywheel, a Center Force dual friction clutch and a set of Hooker long tube headers. We already have an MSD 6AL in the car, just need to figure out if we're gonna stick with the HEI or switch to an MSD pro billet distributor and coil. We are going on a road trip tomorrow to pick up an LS1 rear end complete with brakes. We have a WC T5 tranny we are going to be throwing in it as well. The brakes have been my biggest headache as Kevin(trackbird) can attest to. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif) Thank you for all the advice! I'm figuring I'll be good with the rear LS1 brakes, I just gotta figure out the fronts. I was originally thinking on going with a C5 setup up front but have been thinking more about the 4 piston calipers being a better way to go since this car will only be seeing the track. I got a price quote from Baer on their track 4 brake package and it seems to be a pretty good deal. I gotta call them back as I forgot to ask for the rotor dimensions. We have the prop valve out of the 89 since it had 4 wheel disc and with what I've been reading we should be good as far as brake bias goes. Down the road an adjustable one will be installed for sure. Eventually we would like to change out the trailing arms and be fully heim jointed in the rear. I plan on sticking with the stock front lower control arms since I've been hearing they are pretty stout and should be suffice for now. Plus we already have poly bushings in them. The springs are something else we'd like to change out and add weight jackers while we're there. I'm thinking on going the route Kevin did with springs, just wanna do some more research on spring rates so I can get it right the first time. Then have the Koni's re-valved for the new spring rates. We have a six point suicide cage installed along with 5 points and a pair of Tenzo racing seats. Later mods will include oil cooler and accumulator, aluminum radiator and a few others I'm sure I forgot. As of now we are trying to get the car painted if the damn weather would cooperate with us. The interior is gutted and will most likely stay that way when we reassembe it. I'm thinkin just the carpet and door panels should go back in. Don't need the extra weight anyway (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I'll start posting some pics as we get further along with the build, and when I figure out how to post them. Any advice you guys want to offer up, I'm all ears.

This post has been edited by TPIJAY: May 3 2010, 05:26 AM

[trackbird]

I don't know of any upgrades to the T56. As always, if I'm looking at two and one is a '93 and one is a '97, I'd buy the '97. But, I can't remember what (if anything) was upgraded and when. The one in my car is (as I remember) from a '97, but I'm not going to swear that's correct. Any of them are far better than a T5.

I'm probably going to swap in an Unbalanced Engineering decoupled TA at some point. The extra bite off of the corners seems like a nice benefit and the race version fits a 3rd gen just fine (since you have to fab some of it up anyway). Currently, I'm not running a proportioning valve and I'm not having brake hop problems, but I've also been running on mostly street rubber or very "dead" race tires. So I'm not sure I'd know if I'll have problems at this point. I'm running C4HD brakes on the front. They aren't the best, but they are far better than the stock 10.5" 3rd gen brakes.

As a side note, the '93 was a specific model year and lots of things are rumored to not swap over (it has a chip in the ECM and not a flashable prom). I don't know the specifics, but I thought there were even some body panel differences (don't quote me on that). Either way, I'd probably avoid buying a '93 to part out if possible.

[Sidney]

You didn't mention what wheels/rims you're running...so if you're using 16's with stock offsets, the LS1 rear end you bought is not going to work. 4th gen rear end axle housing are 3 inches wider than 3rd gens.

So what are your plans with this car after TT? Depending on what drivetrain loss you see, your 400 hp / 400 tq might put you over for AI and straight to AIX. You didn't mention any aero or other lightening mods so you're going to be heavy and very slow for AIX.

Let me be the first to tell you to STOP what you're doing right now and make a plan. Pick a class, talk to someone that's been running that class for years and do what they tell you. You need track time first and HP LAST. I'm guessing with the mods you've mentioned that you'll be competing with Corvettes, Porsches, and BMW's and will get your ass handed to you in TT.

You're 2 to 3 years away from TT as you'll need to work your way through the HPDE ranks. Build the car to the basics of CMC then just get seat time.

Been there...done that,

Sidney Franklin
Midwest Region
Autocross/TT/AGS/AI/CMC....now CMC2.

[TPIJAY]

You didn't mention what wheels/rims you're running...so if you're using 16's with stock offsets, the LS1 rear end you bought is not going to work. 4th gen rear end axle housing are 3 inches wider than 3rd gens.

So what are your plans with this car after TT? Depending on what drivetrain loss you see, your 400 hp / 400 tq might put you over for AI and straight to AIX. You didn't mention any aero or other lightening mods so you're going to be heavy and very slow for AIX.

Let me be the first to tell you to STOP what you're doing right now and make a plan. Pick a class, talk to someone that's been running that class for years and do what they tell you. You need track time first and HP LAST. I'm guessing with the mods you've mentioned that you'll be competing with Corvettes, Porsches, and BMW's and will get your ass handed to you in TT.

You're 2 to 3 years away from TT as you'll need to work your way through the HPDE ranks. Build the car to the basics of CMC then just get seat time.

Been there...done that,

Sidney Franklin
Midwest Region
Autocross/TT/AGS/AI/CMC....now CMC2.

For now I will be running a set of C4 17x9.5's with 275 A6's that I have been using for HPDE on my Corvette. These will be perfect for the rear but I will need spacers/adapters for the fronts. I have future plans to switch to a set of 17x10 CCW's or other comperable lightweight race wheel.

As of right now I am unsure of where I will go from TT, I'll have to do some more research on the CMC, AI and AIX. I really haven't done too much in the way of lightening other than interior removal and removing the windows and all hardware from the doors. We are thinking bout eliminating the heater core assembly housing and blocking off the holes left in the firewall.

With all the figures we have as of right now, we are building the car for a base class of TTB, even though our adjusted hp/wt ratio will put us into TTA regardless of points. The good news is that gives me 20 more points worth of mods since the way the car sits right now I only have 19 points with a TTB base class(13 points for A6's, 1 pt for 275 tires, 3 points for shocks and 2 points for PHB). If I am reading the rules correctly, I will have to take a 1 pt hit for the rear end swap, another 3 points for the tranny and 2 points for non oem calipers.

I have been running HPDE with my Corvette and am up to HPDE 3. I know track time is huge, especially since the 3rd gen is gonna handle so much different from my C4 Vette. I just want to get the car setup for the class I am going to be running so that way when I do get to TT, I won't be trying to learn the car again.

Thank you for the advice, now I have more options to chew on.

Thanks Kevin, that falls right in line of what I was thinking with stickin with the later models. I already found a couple 97's for around $2k

[Sidney]

Jay,

That info changes things some as there is a big difference between a guy that has done some parking lot autocrosses and a driver signed off to HPDE3. You're right...the 3rd gen is going to handle different than your C4 but don't underestimate it's potential. We surprise Vette drivers quite often after they pass us down the straights then wonder why we're stuck to their rear bumper 5 turns later.

Looks like you've got a handle on the TT points issue but there are some very fast cars in TTA, ie, Porsche 996 & Corvette Z06's. Are you sure you want to compete with a 3rd gen in that class! If your plans are not to race wheel-to-wheel then build what you've got and go have fun. If you think at some point in the future that you want to race other cars and not just compete for times...then you should consider now what class that might be. I'd suggest looking at the CMC2 rules and build to that. Run HPDE3/4 then get your TT license. You can always build on that platform if you desire to spend more money.

Good luck,

Sidney