[Racerdad916]

Trackbird and I were talking the other day about some rumors floating around about the "New" NASA HPDE rules. My question is: To run a NASA HPDE event in 2011, if my car has a cage that is ERW not DOM, but is within design specs, will I be able to run? Same thing with fuel cell, seats etc. Before I finish the cage, it might be good to know if there are rule changes......

[mitchntx]

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf

11.4.7 Roll Bars
All open cars should have a roll bar installed to help protect the occupant(s) from injury
during a roll-over. The roll bar should be able to withstand the compressional forces
involved in supporting the full weight of the car. The roll bar’s main hoop should extend
the full width of the car (except certain cars that have been approved by NASA). The
main hoop shall be one continuous piece with smooth bends and no evidence of
crimping or wall failure shall be present (i.e. should be Mandrel bends). All welds should
be of the highest possible quality, with full penetration [Ref:(15.6.15)]. All cars with roll
bars are required to have adequate roll bar padding per CCR section #15.6.4. In cases
where the driver’s head may come in contact with the roll bar should the seatback fail, a
seatback brace is required in conformance with section #15.6.22. The material and
minimums are as follows: (All cars with full roll cages should conform to the applicable
sections found in section #15.0.)

Vehicle weight DOM or ERW
Under 2000 lbs. 1.50" x .120”
2001 - 3500 lbs. 1.75" x .120"
Over 3500 lbs. 2.00" x .120"

Vehicle weight Alloy (CM)
Under 1500 lbs. 1.375" x .095”
1501 - 2500 lbs. 1.625" x .095"
Over 2500 lbs. 2.000" x .095"

Section 15 is all about the safety gear and discusses fuel cells and cage construction.

[Blainefab]

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf

(All cars with full roll cages should conform to the applicable
sections found in section #15.0.)

Section 15 is all about the safety gear and discusses fuel cells and cage construction.

I left the important part of what Mitch bolded - full cage goes to section 15, which says:

1501 - 2500 lbs.
1.500” x 0.095” Seamless Alloy (4130), Seamless mild steel (CDS Mechanical) or DOM
1.500” x 0.120” ERW* (No issuance of log books for cars with ERW cages 04/30/03)
*Note- Specifications listed for reference for inspection of grandfathered vehicles.

2501 - 3000 lbs.
1.500” x 0.120” Seamless Alloy (4130), Seamless mild steel (CDS Mechanical) or DOM
1.750” x 0.095” Seamless Alloy (4130), Seamless mild steel (CDS Mechanical) or DOM
1.750” x 0.120” ERW* (No issuance of log books for cars with ERW cages 04/30/03)
*Note- Specifications listed for reference for inspection of grandfathered vehicles.

3001 - 4000 lbs.
1.750” x .120” Seamless Alloy (4130), Seamless mild steel (CDS Mechanical) or DOM
No ERW allowed.

Over 4000 lbs.
2.000” x 0.120” Seamless Alloy (4130), Seamless mild steel (CDS Mechanical) or DOM
No ERW allowed.

No new rules - ERW was phased out before 2003.

fuel cell, rollbar padding and seats in a race prepped HPDE car follow the race rules. HPDE rules are largely for OEM stock vehicles - once a race item is installed, that item is teched to race rules.

This post has been edited by Blainefab: Feb 9 2011, 07:51 PM

[mitchntx]

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf

(All cars with full roll cages should conform to the applicable
sections found in section #15.0.)

Section 15 is all about the safety gear and discusses fuel cells and cage construction.

I left the important part of what Mitch bolded - full cage goes to section 15, which says:

I work in a procedure laden environment and the operative word in that sentence Alan bolded is "should".

If it were mandatory, the word "shall" or "must" would be there. The term "should" suggests its highly recommended.

[Blainefab]

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf

(All cars with full roll cages should conform to the applicable
sections found in section #15.0.)

Section 15 is all about the safety gear and discusses fuel cells and cage construction.

I left the important part of what Mitch bolded - full cage goes to section 15, which says:

I work in a procedure laden environment and the operative word in that sentence Alan bolded is "should".

If it were mandatory, the word "shall" or "must" would be there. The term "should" suggests its highly recommended.

We play in NASA's environment, and the word "should" has a special meaning, as of Feb 1 2011: bolding mine

28.1.13 Should vs. Shall
The word “should” is used throughout this rulebook; and in order to fully grasp its
meaning, the following explanations have been created. When the word “should”
is used, it can be taken to mean that something should be done in accordance
with this book, or the driver can expect the stewards to disallow track time, if they
catch the issue. The reason that it’s stated as “should,” is to add emphasis that
it’s really, and ultimately, the driver’s responsibility. Because Inspectors,
Instructors, Flaggers, and Officials in general, tend to be human, it is an assumed
risk of this activity that a mistake can be made. Therefore, the driver is ultimately
held responsible for his or her own safety.

Furthermore, the word “should” also makes an implication of fallibility and/or
corrects false expectations. For example, “the flagger should display a yellow
flag,” the yellow flag in question may not show because of 1) it relies on the
flagger’s judgment, and that can be subjective, and 2) the flagger is human and
can make a mistake. Therefore, if one is not willing to risk their safety because
they expect other people to be perfect, then they cannot participate in NASA.

To sum it up, the word “should” can be construed in the context of these
examples:

a) “The driver should have roll cage padding (if they expect to be let on
track).”
b) “The official should check for roll cage padding (implying that, even though
they do their best, the Inspectors can miss something).