Auto show recap. - F-Body Road Racing and Autocross Forums

Admission $8
Overpriced bottled water $2.50
Metro and parking fee $9

Getting to see the Camaro concept in person (finally).

PRICELESS! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool2.gif)

Man, I love it in the pictures, but in person it's even better. I know there's lots of haters here so that's all I'm gonna say.

Other show high/lowlights:

New Tundra: Definitely a half ton. An improvement but I don't see the big deal especially in the looks dept. Had some thoughtful features (storage bins here and there, nice adjustable tie-downs) though. They had a rolling chassis there so you could see a lot of the features. Has a 2 piece driveshaft which is a good idea for NVH, but 2X as many u-joints to fail. Rear is 1/2 ton size, front brake rotors are huge diameter but the swept area isn't that much. Rear calipers are *tiny*. Trans was physically small looking for a 6-speed. Dash looked unattractive and the gauge pods that stuck out were cheap feeling. Overall an improvement, but I can't see it being a world beater.

New Silverado: I loved the looks up close, interior very classy and attractive. Some materials looked so-so, but an improvement over my truck. Time will tell how it holds up. Dash/gauges/wheel was a great thing to be behind. Seat leather was very nice. Back seat good, not great room-wise. Fold up was nice and easy and it's a split fold. No built-in bed tie down system Only a bulky bolt-on unit that I wouldn't want. Absolutely should be built-in as well as a Titan-style bed-box. No excuse for not having that. No HDs at either Chevy or GMC. Overall no contest, though, I'd pick it out of all the full-size trucks.

New Ford SD: A face only a mother could love. Just looks weird with big lights on the bottom. I dunno, just out of proportion or something. Size vents are strange, but OK I guess. Built in step/handle on the tailgate is *genius*, bravo Ford. They had an F450 there right next to an F350. Was a King Ranch model and looked to be a much more sane choice compared to the C4500 caricature of a pickup by Chevy. F450 had *huge* components underneath, but probably didn't sit higher than the F350. Hard to tell the difference at first glance. 10-lug low-pro semi wheels/regroovable tires gave it away. Would love to tell you about the interior, but all SDs were *locked*. Huh??

GT500: locked, Why? Lame.

Z06: Open and great! CF trim, fantastic seats, everything right where you want it. Good job Chevy.

Saturn Sky: Looks and feels like it should cost much more. Lots of aluminum up front and the redline turbo setup was sweet. Great seats/wheel/dash.

GM and D-C gets a big thumbs-up for making great use of the show area with quite a few concepts and grouping all brands together, but having good enough separation between them. They did a much better job than Ford.

QUOTE (BigEnos @ Jan 27 2007, 09:34 AM)

Has a 2 piece driveshaft which is a good idea for NVH, but 2X as many u-joints to fail.

Out of curiosity, how do you know about driveshaft NVH? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

QUOTE (StanIROCZ @ Jan 28 2007, 06:55 PM)

QUOTE (BigEnos @ Jan 27 2007, 09:34 AM)

Has a 2 piece driveshaft which is a good idea for NVH, but 2X as many u-joints to fail.

Out of curiosity, how do you know about driveshaft NVH? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Uh, I guess this is a serious question. My truck has a DS harmonic when it's unloaded at a certain speed on the highway. I'm *assuming* it's a DS harmonic.

My 4th gen. never had much of a problem, but I took it in and had it replaced with the aluminum TSB unit under warranty anyway (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)

QUOTE (BigEnos @ Jan 29 2007, 09:20 AM)

QUOTE (StanIROCZ @ Jan 28 2007, 06:55 PM)

QUOTE (BigEnos @ Jan 27 2007, 09:34 AM)

Has a 2 piece driveshaft which is a good idea for NVH, but 2X as many u-joints to fail.

Out of curiosity, how do you know about driveshaft NVH? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I was over analyzing a bit (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Your comment about the driveshafts made me think that you might work in the field, but then I looked at your location and that didn't make sense. But your comment about 1 pc vs. 2pc NVH wasn't too far off. Big 1 piece driveshafts are more prone noise problems IF the system isn't integrated properly. There have been some big advancements in this field in the past few years and Toyota is behind.

A 2 piece driveshaft has 3 u-joints to get from the trans/t-case to axle so each u-joint should have less angle which should improve life. The drawback to the 2 pcs is cost, complexity, weight and sometimes a lauch shudder issue.

Toyota hasn't been building big trucks long enough to know what they need.

BigEnos View Member Profile	Jan 27 2007, 02:34 PM Post #1
Collo Rosso Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,220 Joined: 3-August 05 From: San Antonio, TX Member No.: 839	Admission $8 Overpriced bottled water $2.50 Metro and parking fee $9 Getting to see the Camaro concept in person (finally). PRICELESS! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool2.gif) Man, I love it in the pictures, but in person it's even better. I know there's lots of haters here so that's all I'm gonna say. Other show high/lowlights: New Tundra: Definitely a half ton. An improvement but I don't see the big deal especially in the looks dept. Had some thoughtful features (storage bins here and there, nice adjustable tie-downs) though. They had a rolling chassis there so you could see a lot of the features. Has a 2 piece driveshaft which is a good idea for NVH, but 2X as many u-joints to fail. Rear is 1/2 ton size, front brake rotors are huge diameter but the swept area isn't that much. Rear calipers are tiny. Trans was physically small looking for a 6-speed. Dash looked unattractive and the gauge pods that stuck out were cheap feeling. Overall an improvement, but I can't see it being a world beater. New Silverado: I loved the looks up close, interior very classy and attractive. Some materials looked so-so, but an improvement over my truck. Time will tell how it holds up. Dash/gauges/wheel was a great thing to be behind. Seat leather was very nice. Back seat good, not great room-wise. Fold up was nice and easy and it's a split fold. No built-in bed tie down system Only a bulky bolt-on unit that I wouldn't want. Absolutely should be built-in as well as a Titan-style bed-box. No excuse for not having that. No HDs at either Chevy or GMC. Overall no contest, though, I'd pick it out of all the full-size trucks. New Ford SD: A face only a mother could love. Just looks weird with big lights on the bottom. I dunno, just out of proportion or something. Size vents are strange, but OK I guess. Built in step/handle on the tailgate is genius, bravo Ford. They had an F450 there right next to an F350. Was a King Ranch model and looked to be a much more sane choice compared to the C4500 caricature of a pickup by Chevy. F450 had huge components underneath, but probably didn't sit higher than the F350. Hard to tell the difference at first glance. 10-lug low-pro semi wheels/regroovable tires gave it away. Would love to tell you about the interior, but all SDs were locked. Huh?? GT500: locked, Why? Lame. Z06: Open and great! CF trim, fantastic seats, everything right where you want it. Good job Chevy. Saturn Sky: Looks and feels like it should cost much more. Lots of aluminum up front and the redline turbo setup was sweet. Great seats/wheel/dash. GM and D-C gets a big thumbs-up for making great use of the show area with quite a few concepts and grouping all brands together, but having good enough separation between them. They did a much better job than Ford.

StanIROCZ View Member Profile	Jan 28 2007, 11:55 PM Post #2
Veteran Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 3,323 Joined: 30-March 06 From: Detroit Suburbs Member No.: 1,144	QUOTE (BigEnos @ Jan 27 2007, 09:34 AM) Has a 2 piece driveshaft which is a good idea for NVH, but 2X as many u-joints to fail. Out of curiosity, how do you know about driveshaft NVH? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

BigEnos View Member Profile	Jan 29 2007, 02:20 PM Post #3
Collo Rosso Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,220 Joined: 3-August 05 From: San Antonio, TX Member No.: 839	QUOTE (StanIROCZ @ Jan 28 2007, 06:55 PM) QUOTE (BigEnos @ Jan 27 2007, 09:34 AM) Has a 2 piece driveshaft which is a good idea for NVH, but 2X as many u-joints to fail. Out of curiosity, how do you know about driveshaft NVH? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Uh, I guess this is a serious question. My truck has a DS harmonic when it's unloaded at a certain speed on the highway. I'm assuming it's a DS harmonic. My 4th gen. never had much of a problem, but I took it in and had it replaced with the aluminum TSB unit under warranty anyway (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)

StanIROCZ View Member Profile	Jan 31 2007, 12:45 AM Post #4
Veteran Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 3,323 Joined: 30-March 06 From: Detroit Suburbs Member No.: 1,144	QUOTE (BigEnos @ Jan 29 2007, 09:20 AM) QUOTE (StanIROCZ @ Jan 28 2007, 06:55 PM) QUOTE (BigEnos @ Jan 27 2007, 09:34 AM) Has a 2 piece driveshaft which is a good idea for NVH, but 2X as many u-joints to fail. Out of curiosity, how do you know about driveshaft NVH? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Uh, I guess this is a serious question. My truck has a DS harmonic when it's unloaded at a certain speed on the highway. I'm assuming it's a DS harmonic. My 4th gen. never had much of a problem, but I took it in and had it replaced with the aluminum TSB unit under warranty anyway (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) I was over analyzing a bit (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Your comment about the driveshafts made me think that you might work in the field, but then I looked at your location and that didn't make sense. But your comment about 1 pc vs. 2pc NVH wasn't too far off. Big 1 piece driveshafts are more prone noise problems IF the system isn't integrated properly. There have been some big advancements in this field in the past few years and Toyota is behind. A 2 piece driveshaft has 3 u-joints to get from the trans/t-case to axle so each u-joint should have less angle which should improve life. The drawback to the 2 pcs is cost, complexity, weight and sometimes a lauch shudder issue. Toyota hasn't been building big trucks long enough to know what they need.