The F-Body Market Options

[sgarnett]

Absolutely. The f-bodies have always been flawed cars. While the interior isn't great, they are about the most comfortable car (for the driver) on the road under $30K IMHO. I looked at a lot of other cars before buying another Camaro, and the only thing close in comfort was a Grand Prix.

The real problem is women.

First of all, most don't like sitting on the floor - they prefer that high seating position with their legs folded under them that I find so uncomfortable. Second, they are not willing to live with the parking difficulties (invisible hood, mile long and 3 foot thick doors). Third, they usually don't have broad shoulders.

Some women actually like these cars, and a few even race them (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) But many don't. And let's face it, while almost everyone on this board managed to buy a new or used f-body, many men are not going to be able to buy a new car that their wife doesn't like (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Mustangs address many of the problems that women have with f-bodies. And for a younger guy buying his first new "real" (pony) car, the V8 that the wife DOES like is a pretty reasonable compromise. She might even want one too (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

GM never grasped that while the car doesn't need to be aimed at women specifically (men will still be a higher percentage of the buyers), the women have to APPROVE the purchase.

Personally, if GM just removed a foot or two of front overhang and shaved the doors down to about half their current thickness (and fixed the damn PCV oil problem), I think they'd have a car they could sell. Oh, and perhaps they should advertise it instead of staking EVERYTHING on the trucks (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Dewey316]

Sean, you hit the nail on the head, also, ever see a woman try to get out of a f-car while wearing a skirt (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) there is a reason i take the audi when i have a female passanger.

[Nick]

Oh, and perhaps they should advertise it instead of staking EVERYTHING on the trucks (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

When was the last time a commercial was centered on the f-body?

[Dewey316]

When was the last time a commercial was centered on the f-body?

the last one i remeber was the LS1 Birdies, where it sucks the exoctic in through the ram-air scoops.

[sgarnett]

One argument I have heard is that it wasn't necessary to advertise because everyone already knows what a Cambird is. However, I'm fairly sure that most people realize Chevy makes trucks, too (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The point of the advertising is not just brand awareness, it's primarily about image. To a lot of people, the image of the f-cars is 70's macho redneck and/or phallic symbol and/or adolescent. And I'm OK with that (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

But a lot of people aren't. Most of those people would probably never be weekend racers, but they do drive the garden-variety volume that makes a product successful.

Ironically, though, the real adolescent market has largely turned elsewhere.

[ESPCamaro]

I think that Rob Hoods explanation of the current parts available are the reasons why so many are selling used parts.

How many people do you think sold their BMR PHR and got something else 'JUST' from the post on the other board?
Or how many realized that they should have bought long tubes instead of short tubes?

Because of the quality of some of the aftermarket parts, people are willing to step up to something better (or just different).

Anyone notice that Fox Mustangs were kinda nice when new, then went into that crappy mullet mobile stage? Now I see nice examples of both stock and modified cars. These are enthusiast's cars, and those type cars stick around.

Did Chevrolet build more 4th gen Camaros than shoebox Chevies? Or Chevelles? Or 1st gen F-bodies. Those cars are still around. I expect these will be around awhile too.

Aside from interior, the F-body is still a pretty nice car. I wish I had the $ for another. A LS1 SS. Copletely stock except new shocks, brake pads, shifter, lid & filter, and GMMG exhaust.
You can still drive a Street Prepared car, but it really starts to not be much fun when the A/C comes out!

[94bird]

Jobs should not be lost in the aftermarket. Businesses must adapt to the changing market and I think the major ones are.

Did anyone happen to notice a recent headline that said GM made about a $150 profit per car last year in the US. They made about a $2100 profit selling a car in China however. Guess where that's heading? I fully expect my next engine project to require flights to China instead of Mexico.

Well, I'm heading for a major thread drift here, but for a short summary, we are a dying breed since we like RWD cars that are cheap fun.

[CMC #37]

I have to fully agree with Sean that addressing the car requirements of women was a major problem with the f-bods. That is saying something being a woman. I don't share their tastes in cars unless they are Belinda Endress or Chris Knight, so GM should not call me for any advice in this dept. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Rob Hood]

Going back to Mitch's original statement regarding used parts for sale, I think some times people can get a little too "proud" of their stuff, and of course, are trying to sell it for as much as they can. No fault in that - that's typical Business 101. However, if the market doesn't bear the price, then the price must come to the market - supply vs demand.

I really don't try to give away my used stuff when I sell it, but when I sell it, I want it GONE. It's no longer of any use to me. When I go to the swap meets, I really have to laugh some times at the prices people are asking. I will take a JEGS or Summit catalog along just to compare prices, and show them what I could buy the same thing for at a new price vs the "used" price.

Car parts just aren't going to appreciate, in the big scheme of things. Only the truly rare and unique parts will hold a certain value. I'm still kicking myself for not picking up a Smokey Yunick single four-barrel cross-ram intake (essentially a single carb top to the 68-69 Z cross-ram manifold) several years back for $80... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[sgarnett]

There are a lot of naive people who think that resale value is related to original cost.

Where it gets really comical is wheels and tires. How often do you see ads something like this:

I paid $2000 for the wheels and $800 for the tires. The rims are in perfect shape except for some curb rash on 3 of them. The tires still have 10~20% tread left (just hit the wear indicators a few months ago). Asking $2200 plus shipping.

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[sgarnett]

I don't share their tastes in cars unless they are Belinda Endress or Chris Knight, so GM should not call me for any advice in this dept.    (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I was going to try to work in some sort of comment about you enlightened few based on the St. Crispin's Day speech, but it never quite gelled ....

[ESPCamaro]

Going back to Mitch's original statement regarding used parts for sale, I think some times people can get a little too "proud" of their stuff, and of course, are trying to sell it for as much as they can. No fault in that - that's typical Business 101. However, if the market doesn't bear the price, then the price must come to the market - supply vs demand.

I really don't try to give away my used stuff when I sell it, but when I sell it, I want it GONE. It's no longer of any use to me. When I go to the swap meets, I really have to laugh some times at the prices people are asking. I will take a JEGS or Summit catalog along just to compare prices, and show them what I could buy the same thing for at a new price vs the "used" price.

Car parts just aren't going to appreciate, in the big scheme of things. Only the truly rare and unique parts will hold a certain value. I'm still kicking myself for not picking up a Smokey Yunick single four-barrel cross-ram intake (essentially a single carb top to the 68-69 Z cross-ram manifold) several years back for $80... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

Agree again. All points

Geeze Rob your making me think there is someting wrong with me.

I'm not much of an agreeable person.


I'm not left, middle or right, just somewhere else..Usually

[steve-d]

I was going to try to work in some sort of comment about you enlightened few based on the St. Crispin's Day speech, but it never quite gelled ....

Sean,

Wow, now I know why I haven't looked as LS1.com etc in a very long time, they lack soul.

Henry V? "Oh, we band of brothers...." Sounds like a good start.

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Regards
Steve

[sgarnett]

I was going to try to work in some sort of comment about you enlightened few based on the St. Crispin's Day speech, but it never quite gelled ....

Sean,

Wow, now I know why I haven't looked as LS1.com etc in a very long time, they lack soul.

Henry V? "Oh, we band of brothers...." Sounds like a good start.

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Regards
Steve

I was thinking more along the lines of "we happy few" .... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[mitchntx]

There are a lot of naive people who think that resale value is related to original cost.

Where it gets really comical is wheels and tires. How often do you see ads something like this:

I paid $2000 for the wheels and $800 for the tires. The rims are in perfect shape except for some curb rash on 3 of them. The tires still have 10~20% tread left (just hit the wear indicators a few months ago). Asking $2200 plus shipping.

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

And you know ... some idiot will pay it.
I just don't understand it.

Another case in point is a mid 90s Z28. Folks are still asking 8-10K for them.

If someone offered me 10K for my '98, I'd be hard pressed to turn them down.

[sgarnett]

Another case in point is a mid 90s Z28. Folks are still asking  8-10K for them.

If someone offered me 10K for my '98, I'd be hard pressed to turn them down.

Well, once you swap in that LS6 long block it will be worth $16K (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

That said, (and I'm not sure which thread this comment belongs in) it would still be very tempting to go for the long block. Then either rebuild the LS1 at your leisure and to your specs and keep it as a spare or sell it. Or open it up and then decide. There WILL be surprises.

I will usually spend some extra money to avoid keeping my car out of service for a long time. However, extra money I spend for my convenience (or because I broke something) doesn't add to the value of the car.

[94bird]

However, extra money I spend for my convenience (or because I broke something) doesn't add to the value of the car.

Well, it depends on your frame of reference. It adds to the value of the car as you perceive it, because you spent that much money on it. It just doesn't add to the value of the car to a potential buyer. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I think that's where a lot of these high asking prices come from.

[mitchntx]

Well, it depends on your frame of reference. It adds to the value of the car as you perceive it, because you spent that much money on it. It just doesn't add to the value of the car to a potential buyer. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I think that's where a lot of these high asking prices come from.

Exactly!

Sean ... the "surprise" is what I dread and know I will find.

[sgarnett]

Well, it depends on your frame of reference. It adds to the value of the car as you perceive it, because you spent that much money on it. It just doesn't add to the value of the car to a potential buyer.  (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I think that's where a lot of these high asking prices come from.

Exactly!

Sean ... the "surprise" is what I dread and know I will find.

Even though I enjoy wrenching too, the surprises have a way of turning a "two weeks and a few cases" project into 6 months of downtime, and that can really cut into the fun factor.

[tom97ss]

And we have to consider the import market which is hudge and growing.... I'm in my early 40's so back in the day we were modifying Nova's, Camaros, chevelle's, mustangs...etc.... Cause it was fairly inexpensive and abundant.

Now the kids these days are into the imports cause it is fairly inexpensive and abundant.