interesting info, about gas prices Options

[rpoz-29]

I made the "drill for oil on the White Hose Lawn" as a bit of humor. Sorry if anyone took it literally. However, fossil fuels are needed NOW. Drill for the oil that we need and begin research into real alternatives. The price of everything we need is directly tied to the cost of oil, and a savvy politcian would suggest the need to buy some time until we find a real alternative. Brazil was smart enough to do so in the early 70's and now import virtually no oil. The US has debated drilling for oil off of our east coast for years. Evironmental concerns have kept that program at bay. Russia has started looking into the same area. If they do find oil, (this is beyond territorial waters), we won't reap any profits, but we will have to deal with any environmental problems.

This post has been edited by rpoz-29: Mar 2 2008, 06:56 PM

[SStrokerAce]

I'm a really big fan of E85 so we don't have to go thru a total transformation of everything. We have lots of development time in internal combustion engines and there is nothing wrong with supporting farmers more. If engines were built just to run E85 we would have much cheaper gas bills. The lack of fuel economy could be offset by more compression and direct injection along with advancements in ethanol production it would be easy to see sub $2 a gallon fuel. That would transform the auto industry in a short time and keep us out of the middle east except to help Israel.

The second generation process to make Ethanol are very interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel

If we got away from Corn and moved to a plant like switchgrass to make cellulosic ethanol we are getting someplace in terms of ethanol prodcution per plant and emissions coming from production of the fuel. Either way a big change to say electric or hydrogen power is going to be extremely hard on the infrastructure of fuel stations and engine technology. This is a very good read... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulosic_ethanol

The reduction of harmfull emissions by using ethonal vs. gasoline is substantial and considering that China and the US both have large land areas to grow fuel and we will be the largest two users of fuel to power our economies it could work out very well.

Bret

This post has been edited by SStrokerAce: Mar 3 2008, 06:39 AM

[firehawkclone]

Since I drill for oil almost everyday, I can tell you this.....

Don't beleave what your being told, there is no shortage, it isn't bad for the environment drilling for or pumping oil, if the RULE's are followed anyway! And most Company's do!

Are ability to get the oil out of the ground is the only limit right now. I'm drilling more holes than ever on a "patch" that has been producing for almost 110 years!

Autos don't take up the most oil......look at some of what oil makes!

Ammonia, Anesthetics, Antihistamines, Artificial limbs, Artificial Turf, Antiseptics, Aspirin, Auto Parts, Awnings, Balloons, Ballpoint pens, Bandages, Beach Umbrellas, Boats, Cameras, Candles, Car Battery Cases, Carpets, Caulking, Combs, Cortisones, Cosmetics, Crayons, Credit Cards, Curtains, Deodorants, Detergents, Dice, Disposable Diapers, Dolls, Dyes, Eye Glasses, Electrical Wiring Insulation, Faucet Washers, Fishing Rods, Fishing Line, Fishing Lures, Food Preservatives, Food Packaging, Garden Hose, Glue, Hair Coloring, Hair Curlers, Hand Lotion, Hearing Aids, Heart Valves, Ink, Insect Repellant, Insecticides, Linoleum, Lip Stick, Milk Jugs, Nail Polish, Oil Filters, Panty Hose, Perfume, Petroleum Jelly, plastics, Rubber Cement, Rubbing Alcohol, Shampoo, Shaving Cream, Shoes, Toothpaste, Trash Bags, Upholstery, Vitamin Capsules, Water Pipes, Yarn

And the list goes on and on!

[bsim]

I think the biggest thing we're "being told" is the anti-oil propaganda, touting renewable energy. There is no such thing..

The first law of thermodynamics states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only converted from a concentrated state to a less concentrated state.

My tongue-in-cheek comment about what we will do about all the extra water coming from hydrogen conversion was mostly based upon the fact that whatever we do for energy will have consequences.

Did you know that over a one year period a single person exhales the same amount of CO2 as a Prius driving 20k miles? When do we start limiting people breathing?

[firehawkclone]

When do we start limiting people breathing?

I can come up with a few to help the planet out (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)

[marka]

Howdy,

I think the biggest thing we're "being told" is the anti-oil propaganda, touting renewable energy. There is no such thing..

The first law of thermodynamics states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only converted from a concentrated state to a less concentrated state.

My tongue-in-cheek comment about what we will do about all the extra water coming from hydrogen conversion was mostly based upon the fact that whatever we do for energy will have consequences.

Of course it will. Anyone halfway intelligent knows that. The problem is that it would appear that oil is becoming harder to get and/or we as a nation don't want to be reliant on the folks that control oil, so we need to switch to some other power source, which will have its own plusses & minuses, nothing more. Its just that we want to switch to something that is more efficient and has plusses & minuses that better fit what we need.

Mark

[bsim]

HEAT is the problem, and until we invent the (impossible) heatless motor, we're only delaying the inevitable. Oil is only "harder to get" for political reasons. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)

Besides, in the future the sun will go red giant and devour the earth. Why leave a planet with combustibles in it? Better explosion? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif)

[marka]

Howdy,

HEAT is the problem, and until we invent the (impossible) heatless motor, we're only delaying the inevitable. Oil is only "harder to get" for political reasons. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)

The reasons being political or not doesn't matter... Its still harder to get.

My personal timeframe is the next couple hundred years. There are plenty of resources that will last that long and quite a bit longer without issues. Quoting thermodynamic laws in this with some kinda "well, no matter what you're screwed" attitude is a bit over the top when at least one major source (solar) certainly isn't going away in the next million years or so.

Besides, in the future the sun will go red giant and devour the earth. Why leave a planet with combustibles in it? Better explosion? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif)

No. Instead of consuming so much oil with cars or other things that are "easy" to convert to other sources, I'd prefer we left the oil to things that would be really hard to make without it... I.e. lubricants, plastics, or whatever.

You talk like someone that uses dollar bills to wipe their ass, because they're easier to reach than the toilet paper in the closet.

Mark

This post has been edited by marka: Mar 3 2008, 08:28 PM

[bsim]

Actually I'm unemployed, so I need those $$ bills.

And yes, I'm going to use all I can while I can. Seeing a Prius on the freeway = 2nd gear 4500 rpm in the Avalanche. Sure it costs me money, but it does make me feel better, fighting the smugness factor. And you can't put a price on that kind of happiness. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif)

[nape]

Quoting thermodynamic laws in this with some kinda "well, no matter what you're screwed" attitude is a bit over the top when at least one major source (solar) certainly isn't going away in the next million years or so.

Thermodynamic laws don't lie. Think about how much energy goes into making that solar panel for the amount you get out of it over it's lifespan. It's not a winner.

Photo voltaic systems sound like a money maker to me, I can't wait for them to take off (electrician). The hard fact is that without government subsides (tax credits, etc), it'll take a long time for them to pay back and by the time they pay for themselves you're looking at replacing them due to limited lifespan. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif)