Detroit throws the gauntlet at NASCAR... Options

[trackbird]

Are you guys ready for the "REAL" Trans Am return?????

(Real meaning the production cars)

I'm ready!!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif) WTF is this COT thing anyway?!!!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rant2.gif)

COT = Car Of Tomorrow.

It's nascars vision of a souless car with a single body template and chassis with a GM/Ford/Toyota sticker on the nose to make it that specific brand. It's a spec chassis that I believe you have to buy from the France family (If I understood that correctly) and if it's fixed, they have to reapprove it. That's coming from a nascar watching co worker. But at least it insures jobs for the France family building and checking chassis. Of course some of that information could be wrong because I got it second hand....and I mostly didn't care... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[00 Trans Ram]

I wish I was a France.

Anyone know of a business that's looking for a person/family to dominate the industry, make all the rules and keep all the profit? If so, let me know where to sign up.

[CMC #37]

I was being sarcastic about the COT...I think it is too abstract compared to what is actually on the road these days. NASCAR has really gotten away from the rum-running roots in stock cars.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/glare.gif)

[Crazy Canuck]

I've read this section 3x... and don't understand it.

6. Make the Nationwide Series a true driver development series. The majority of the Detroit Three want the Nationwide Series to be strictly a driver development series, which means Sprint Cup drivers wouldn't be allowed to compete. Sounds simple enough, right? The reality? NASCAR doesn't take too kindly to people telling them what they can or cannot do when it comes to a competitive aspect in one of their series, but who knows? Once NASCAR gets use to grappling with all of these other ideas from the manufacturers, this might be the easiest one to go along with.

What are they really suggesting ?
Are they saying that 1 of the series would be for newbies to work on skills until they get to the real-series ?
like the junior-league, if you'd call it like that ?
sorry... 4th language syndrome.

[Rob Hood]

I was being sarcastic about the COT...I think it is too abstract compared to what is actually on the road these days. NASCAR has really gotten away from the rum-running roots in stock cars.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/glare.gif)

"rum-running"...now you're talking! Should be four cases of fresh whiskey in the trunk of all the cars...and then all 43 cars race from Atlanta to Bristol. First one to get there without (a) getting caught and (2) breaking a jar wins!

This post has been edited by Rob Hood: Aug 9 2008, 05:55 AM

[Rob Hood]

Personally I'd like to see Jeff Gordon, and Tony Stewart in an Indy Car.

And Tony George go to NASCAR ... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool2.gif)

Nah - he can stay in Indy. Anyone who claims to want to start a series based on American chassis and engines, then changes the rules and goes back to what it was prior to the split, is a traitor IMO. Got to be connected to Benedict Arnold on the family tree somehow. There should be just as much innovation and rule interpretation at Indy as there once was - same for NASCAR. Neither sanctioning body could figure out how to stay ahead of those who pushed the envelope, so they made it taboo to change anything. Next thing you know, it's cookie-cutter cars and racing...where are the Jim Halls and Smokey Yunicks of today? Who knows - intellectual creativity has been demolished in both series as far as I'm concerned. At least Champ Car had Ford engines.

[rpoz-29]

One of my beefs with NASCAR is the mandatory tire size, gear ratios and so forth. If they buy their engines from a limited number of builders, and NASCAR dictates everything else they do, why do they need a crew chief? It sounds like they need a negotiator, (for those closing laps when they need a draft partner), a spotter and some darn good tire changers.

[nape]

I can only speak from personal experience, but the last few Indy races I've seen (not recently) have been snoozefests. Same thing whenever I turn on Formula 1. Good luck passing.

Everyone can bitch all they want about no current technology, etc, but look at how much money people spend on R&D and repairs trying to race stock junk. A good World Challenge GT car is $250-300k and I'd guess a WC TC car is approaching the $100,000 mark if it's not already past. GT cars are using big dollar sequentials and TC cars are at least using dog boxes, some have sequentials. Both series are allowed to use dry-sump systems and big $$$ engine management systems.

I don't have a connection to any of the teams, but I try to watch/listen to whatever I can find about them. If you think a NASCAR motor is expensive, ask LG how much his Hollinger transmission cost with all the bells and whistles.

This post has been edited by nape: Aug 9 2008, 03:23 PM

[raybob9289]

Its Coming!!!!

[T.O.Dillinder]

I would however watch a racing series using highly modified chassis or tube frame conversions of real cars that I could at least make some connection to a real street car. Stock bodies would also bring the speeds down without the need of restrictor plates. NASCAR to me is a place where the manufactures fight it out in design in some form and that has totally been lost.

Wasn't that the SCCA Trans-Am Series From the late sixties until really the late eighties.
In the 90's it seemed liked they were starting to go Cuckoo for Coconuts.

[1meanZ]

I realize that I'm really right-wing here but here's what I'd LOVE to see. I want to see stock chassis cars with stock suspension attachment points, stock engine and driveline configuration, stock engine displacement and something else like stock cam profile or something... The cars could have cages, but I better see stock floor pan stampings under the seats! I'd love to watch the Hemi Charger take on the 5.3 powered Monte Carlo vs the nutless crapwagon Toyota Camry and Ford Fusion. Dodge would clearly dominate, and Ford and Toyota would look like the Jr. High girls cheerleading squad. This is about the only thing that would actually motivate me to buy something I saw racing. The OEMs could also sell the parts used to beef up the race cars as well. I could go buy suspension pieces and trans parts from GM to beef up my badass 5.3L powered Monte Carlo. Then it could be like it was back even in the 80's when Buick, pontiac, and oldsmobile were still involved. I imagine the Cadillac CTS-V could beat up on the Charger.....

This post has been edited by 1meanZ: Aug 29 2008, 10:37 PM

[sgarnett]

I've read this section 3x... and don't understand it.

6. Make the Nationwide Series a true driver development series. The majority of the Detroit Three want the Nationwide Series to be strictly a driver development series, which means Sprint Cup drivers wouldn't be allowed to compete. Sounds simple enough, right? The reality? NASCAR doesn't take too kindly to people telling them what they can or cannot do when it comes to a competitive aspect in one of their series, but who knows? Once NASCAR gets use to grappling with all of these other ideas from the manufacturers, this might be the easiest one to go along with.

What are they really suggesting ?
Are they saying that 1 of the series would be for newbies to work on skills until they get to the real-series ?
like the junior-league, if you'd call it like that ?
sorry... 4th language syndrome.

There's already a hierarchy of the series, with the Winston/Nextel/Sprint Cup on top, and several "junior" or feeder series to develop drivers. The problem is, anytime a Cup driver wants to get a little extra practice or cash, they can drop down and race in the development series. Often, the junior race is held at the same track, one day before the Cup race (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) When the well-funded Cup drivers bump someone who is actually competing in the series (which happens REGULARLY), the bumped driver's sponsor gets no exposure, the driver gets no points, which hurts the sponsor's exposure even more, and so on. Good-bye, team sponsor.

My father-in-law, a NASCAR fan, has argued that nobody should be allowed to compete "below" their class. If a driver retires from a higher class and wants to drop to a lower class, fine, as long as he can keep up (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[roadracetransam]

There's already a hierarchy of the series, with the Winston/Nextel/Sprint Cup on top, and several "junior" or feeder series to develop drivers. The problem is, anytime a Cup driver wants to get a little extra practice or cash, they can drop down and race in the development series. Often, the junior race is held at the same track, one day before the Cup race (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) When the well-funded Cup drivers bump someone who is actually competing in the series (which happens REGULARLY), the bumped driver's sponsor gets no exposure, the driver gets no points, which hurts the sponsor's exposure even more, and so on. Good-bye, team sponsor.

My father-in-law, a NASCAR fan, has argued that nobody should be allowed to compete "below" their class. If a driver retires from a higher class and wants to drop to a lower class, fine, as long as he can keep up (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I agree. What's the point in watching the same drivers race in 3 races, (including the truck series) in one weekend.

I got turned off NASCAR, when they started running the Ford Tauruses, pretending a sedan was a coupe. By the way what is up with the 4 door coupe from Mercedes. Did everyone forget that coupe=2doors sedan=4doors. But I am digressing. COT with different stickers for different brands. Since these are clearly not Fords, Toyotas, Chevyes, the teams should pay royalties to the manifacturers for useing their logos /names.
Anyone heard of any changes brewing, form another source lately? I watched some Speed Nascar coverage last weekend to see if they mention anything but, did not see anything.

[nape]

I agree. What's the point in watching the same drivers race in 3 races, (including the truck series) in one weekend.

Exposure. It's simple marketing and I'm not even a business savvy guy.

If you're a fan of Indy Cars and all the big drivers show up to run Toyota Atlantic (or whatever they're calling it these days), aren't you going to be more inclined to watch the TA race? I would just to see if the big names can beat the up-and-comers.

Everyone wins except the guys who get bumped. Just like Saturday night at the dirt track.