Possible run of 25mm Hellwig adjustable rear bars, Who needs one? Options

[trackbird]

One of the members here asked me about the 25mm adjustable rear sway bar kits to go with his new watts link (where he's going to lower the roll center). I spoke to David at Hellwig at one point and he advised me that if we had enough orders, they could do a run of them. At the time, I think we were talking about doing 10 bars. However, we may be able to get it done with a few less (I never got a hard number). The point of all this is, if we can get enough interest, I'll gladly put an order together for a group buy for the 25mm bars.

So, how many people would be interested in the 25mm adjustable rear sway bar kit from Hellwig?

Let me know and I'll see what I can do.

[v7guy]

I guess it would mostly rely on price.
I've got a fixed rate bar in the rear with my UE lowered PHR, I'd be interested in trying out different resistance.

What kind of ranges are we looking at?

[sgarnett]

I'll take one.

[sgarnett]

What kind of ranges are we looking at?

My bar stiffness estimates ....

[Major_Lee_Slow]

I am interested in one as well. I am putting together my budget for next season (My new racing fiscal starts Nov 1) so I'm going to put in provisions for one.

[shortbus]

I don't suppose there are any handy pictures of said part?

[sgarnett]

I don't suppose there are any handy pictures of said part?

The first couple of pages in the thread I linked above have pictures taken by Hellwig and one or two of the beta testers.

Or, the next time you are in Lexington, you can look at mine (currently the 7/8" setup) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by sgarnett: Sep 8 2008, 02:31 PM

[Major_Lee_Slow]

Hey Guys, I spoke with Hellwig today and they stated that if we can get at least 5 orders then they will do a limited run on the 25 mm bars at the same price as the 22 mm bars, which is $229.00

So far I think sqarnett and I are in. Anyone else?

[trackbird]

If it's in the budget, I might (MIGHT) buy one to "have". I don't need it now, but I may in the future.

If you guys want 'em, I'll order them. Anyone else?

If you're lowering your PHB, you might want this.

[sgarnett]

If you're lowering your PHB or Watts link pivot, you might want this.

Fixed that for you (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Even with the roll center at the "stock" height (not really stock if the car is lowered, but ...), the car can generally use more bar when the tires are fresh but needs less as they age.

This post has been edited by sgarnett: Sep 19 2008, 11:10 AM

[trackbird]

I started to add that too Sean.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[JimMueller]

OK, I'm in, but you'll need to scratch me off the MaxDataQ list. This will include heim joint end links, right? Should I re-schedule my corner weighting appointment next week until after this is installed?

[trackbird]

It uses a high durometer poly end link (looks like a tie rod, but with a poly bushing instead of a ball/pivot). You could build a heim joint setup for it if you actually think you need it. I'm still running the poly and the bar works great for me, your results may vary.

I'd probably do the corner weighting. As long as you don't preload the bar, it shouldn't change much, and these may be a while (we still need at least one more buyer).

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[sgarnett]

Kevin, after experimenting a bit, I've confirmed that the 7/8" Hellwig bar just ain't gonna fit with the Watts (at least not unless the roll center is maintained at the stock height, which I don't intend to do, and even that is dicey). I have to back out on ordering the 1" bar unless Hellwig can make the change we discussed. I have some pictures for you. I just need to sort through them, but I may get a few more today after swapping. I may just mail you a CD so I can maintain the original resolution.

Jim, you might want to just disconnect the swaybar link at one end of your current bars and do the corner weighting with just the springs. Then when you reconnect or replace the bars, shim the wheels to level, and then adjust the links for no preload on the bars. Then they should not affect the corner weighting.

I have my garage floor marked so I always put the car in the same place. The front ramps are level, and I use stocks of 2x12s under the rear wheels to get it level. On my floor, I have to add a 3/4" plywood shim on top of the stack under the left rear wheel. As long as I always put it in the same place, I know it will be level.

This post has been edited by sgarnett: Oct 4 2008, 06:06 PM

[JimMueller]

Kevin, after experimenting a bit, I've confirmed that the 7/8" Hellwig bar just ain't gonna fit with the Watts (at least not unless the roll center is maintained at the stock height, which I don't intend to do, and even that is dicey). I have to back out on ordering the 1" bar unless Hellwig can make the change we discussed. I have some pictures for you. I just need to sort through them, but I may get a few more today after swapping. I may just mail you a CD so I can maintain the original resolution.

Hmm, that's a problem as I want both the lower roll center with the Watts & the adjustable 1" bar. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[sgarnett]

Kevin, after experimenting a bit, I've confirmed that the 7/8" Hellwig bar just ain't gonna fit with the Watts (at least not unless the roll center is maintained at the stock height, which I don't intend to do, and even that is dicey). I have to back out on ordering the 1" bar unless Hellwig can make the change we discussed. I have some pictures for you. I just need to sort through them, but I may get a few more today after swapping. I may just mail you a CD so I can maintain the original resolution.

Hmm, that's a problem as I want both the lower roll center with the Watts & the adjustable 1" bar. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Yeah, since most of the orders will probably be for use with the Watts, it won't make much sense to make this run unless they can be tweaked to fit. It's easy enough from a design point of view, but depending on how their tooling is set up, it may or may not be feasible for a low-volume order - to be determined.

The bar will fit with the car at rest, but bump travel will rotate the bar into the bellcrank. There isn't really room to fix it by shortening the links either.

[trackbird]

Send me the photos when you can (mail is fine, PM me and I'll give you my info if you don't have it) and I'll get it to David at Hellwig and see what I can find otu.

[sgarnett]

Last night I discovered/remembered that my LCAs are set about 4.5mm longer than stock. I slapped the Hellwig bar back on to see if that would be enough to make a difference. I also lowered the swaybar mount a little more: Fays2 supplied a 1/2" spacer for use with the stock mounting bracket, and I made 5/8" spacers for use with the Hellwig bracket, which inherently positions the bar about 1/6"~1/8" lower than the stock bracket. I didn't actually shorten the LCAs; I just wanted to find out if it would be worth doing.

With the LCAs at stock length, that might be enough to make the bar brush the bellcrank assembly (specifically, the bolts) instead of hitting it, but that's still not adequate operating clearance. The bolts for the link rod ends are already exact length, and use thin nuts (since they are mounted in double shear), so there's no help there.

[Major_Lee_Slow]

Trackbird, I guess I'll just sit tight and see how the clearance issue that sqarnett mentioned pans out...

[trackbird]

I'm just waiting on the photos and info from Sean and I'll get with Dave at Hellwig and see what I can get worked out. I'm happy to give it a shot, lets see what happens.