NASA Nationals links and results! Options

[CMC #37]

Post your links up here peeps!

Live Timing and Scoring

MyLaps Live Results This one is a little graphically neater.

Schedule


Saw the live timing this am, looks like many are taking it easy in CMC/CMC2, Dave Schotz came out blastin' though! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Looks like an hp track from the comparative lap times so far.

[firehawkclone]

Its all about the infield!

My car will not turn with a dam!

[mitchntx]

John, this was posted over on the NASA forums

Hello racers competing in the Nationals with a late model GM vehicle. I am a former GM calibration engineer and just fininshed up tuning Arron Pfadt's 2006 Z06 on a Dynapack chassis dyno at Miller. If you are having engine calibration problems or are not satisfied with your current engine calibration, I have a few trackside dyno tuning slots available on Friday, September 11, 2009. Call me for further information on 248-941-1948.

I know this is questionable posting this guy's business and contact info, but he's at the track and John had some tuning issues.

John ... also, contact Glenn and see if you can't get your turning issues sorted. We have gotten our cars pretty damned neutral and predictable.

[firehawkclone]

John, this was posted over on the NASA forums

Hello racers competing in the Nationals with a late model GM vehicle. I am a former GM calibration engineer and just fininshed up tuning Arron Pfadt's 2006 Z06 on a Dynapack chassis dyno at Miller. If you are having engine calibration problems or are not satisfied with your current engine calibration, I have a few trackside dyno tuning slots available on Friday, September 11, 2009. Call me for further information on 248-941-1948.

I know this is questionable posting this guy's business and contact info, but he's at the track and John had some tuning issues.

John ... also, contact Glenn and see if you can't get your turning issues sorted. We have gotten our cars pretty damned neutral and predictable.

I did get the motor tuned, it run's great!

Right now it won't turn, Jason S. @ UE has been working with me, and i think we found it. The upper GW a-arm is hitting the shock tower, so im installing stock uppers right now. Im getting crazy chattter on the front. I have to do an alignment right now.

Thank you so much Mitch, Glenn stop by to help, but he was dressed so nice and they just popped to keg og of shinner bock.

[Unbalanced Engin...]

I found the smoking gun. With the aero load, John was bottoming the GW upper arm on the shock tower. HARD. Spring rate --> infinity spring can't damp, rebounds uncontrolled, car loads, spring rate --> intinity repeat (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

So the shudder should be gone now that John has the stock upper A arms back on the car. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Jason S.

[mitchntx]

I knew you were having last minute issues with the motor. Glad you got it sorted.

Dressed nice? We're talking Glenn Landrum, right? Short guy, dark hair, wears glasses, platform shoes ... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[MikeP-99Z]

Glad John/Jason found the issue - let's just say it makes a difference to not have the arm hitting - LOL. I just went through the sorting same issue.

Good luck out there !

[CMC #37]

Go John! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) A little birdie told me that T1 is flat!

[trackbird]

Rock N roll guys (and ladies)!

Too bad you're not at Mid O this year, I miss seeing everyone already!!!

[CMC #37]

Looking at the schedule the Championship race for Group B (CMC/CMC2/FFR) is Saturday, AI/AIX on Sunday.

[Unbalanced Engin...]

It looks like that was only a partial cure. I've spoken to Mitch and Alan and all three of us are a bit on the stumped side so any other ideas would be helpful.

These are the parts that have been changed and the mid corner chatter persisted. Primarily in the slower / tighter radius corners:

K member
Upper arms
Rack
Tie rods
wheels / tires


These parts have been checked and are in good shape:

Hubs
Lower ball joints
inner lower A arm bushings


Contact has been checked for contact:

swaybar - tie rods
Upper arms - shock towers
swayber - sub frame

Tire pressures are 26 cold, and ~33 hot. Temps are within 10 deg across the face [275 RA1]

Front shocks were refreshed in March. Shock/spring/bar combo has been in place for ~3 years.


Unknowns (to me):

UMI K members -- Are they stiff enough??
Front sub frame starting to crack -- Alan Blane's Idea
Try higher front tire pressures -- Mitch's Idea

Sooo Any thoughts? TIA,

Jason S

This post has been edited by Unbalanced Engineering: Sep 11 2009, 06:57 PM

[trackbird]

How much castor is in the car? If it's running a "bunch" and picking up the contact patches due to excessive camber gain at the extremes of steering travel, that will do it. I've seen it in autocross a bunch and have to remember to unwind the wheel to get the tires back on the ground and working. Does less steering help get it hooked up and turning?

What's the toe setting?

[CMC #37]

I'm with Alan, subframe cracked/bent good thing to check. I'd check the rear end too to see how much play in the axles, is it making any noise?

[Unbalanced Engin...]

Hey Kevin,

I knew I was forgetting something.

Original alignment:

-2.5 camber, 7.5 caster

I was thinking exactly what you were, but we reset alignment to -2.5 camber, 5.0 caster and nothing changed....

Julie, Alan and I both looked over the frame and its fine. :-|

The thing that has eliminated MOST of the rest of it was Mitch's pressure idea. Going out 28 psi cold removed most of the shudder. John is going to try 30 psi front 25 psi rear this afternoon. Seems crazy high as far as RA1 cold pressures go. The other AI 4th gen there (Tommy Schlender) with significant DF is running almost exactly the same settings that John Started with, and has never seen sudder much like the rest of us.

I still don't consider this one solved, but I am completely out of ideas....

Jason S.

[mitchntx]

When tire pressures get that far out of whack, its indicative of something hardware wise not working together.

Something to consider is the 35mm Strano bar might be too much of a mis-match with the 21 rear.

[MikeP-99Z]

Ride height, coil bind, shock travel etc. - going static in the front? Too soft a front spring?

[shortbus]

Ride height, coil bind, shock travel etc. - going static in the front? Too soft a front spring?

I am going with ride height and soft spring rate.

What is the static ride height currently? Fender to ground?

If you are getting aero load and going to infinity then can't be that far off from infinity under braking, and under directional load.

(but take me with a grain of salt... no one likes what I have done with my suspension.)

[shortbus]

Are the front shocks shortened?

How much suspension travel is available?

[mitchntx]

Its not spring rate ...

Full travel
1000lb spring rate
Shocks are UE Bilsteins matched to the springs.

This setup is on dozens of cars across the country.

The difference is the sway bars. Most who run the 35mm Strano front use the 25mm strano rear.

[nape]

What do you mean by chatter? Come find me tomorrow and we'll do a run down. I'm crewing for Algozine and Erickson in GP Garage 11.