New Here with a Grassroots Challenge car Options

[hrdlydangerous]

Well like the title says I'm new on the board but that's not to say that I haven't been lurking for a while. I just aquired a '94 Trans Am that will be used to compete in the Grassroots Motorsports Magazine $2010 Challenge. This will be the second car I've competed with in this venue. The first car was a fox Mustang that finished a best of fifth in 2006. I've been autocrossing for more than a decade but this is the first F-Body I've owned. I promise to search this board thoroughly before I post up any tech questions. Look for me to post a lot in the classified sections looking for cheap parts to keep me under my budget limit. Thanks in advance for all the help.

Matt

[198esp]

What do you have in store for the car. I don't know if you can get it as light as your mustang was. Do you still have the mustang, good luck with the build

[NJSPEEDER]

Very cool. That event is definitely on my bucket list.

Where are you from, there may be some of us near you that can lend a hand.

-Tim

[00 Trans Ram]

Make sure the engine lasts. There is/was an LT1 Trans Am that ran at NPR here in Louisiana (and Houston, at least). I don't think it finished a race due to engine problems.

[hrdlydangerous]

Thanks for the interest everyone.
I agree that the car won't be as light as the Mustang which, by the way I do still have. I learned a lot with that car about how to lighten it. I even went so far as to "skin" the stock hood to reduce the weight by about fifteen pounds. Look for the same tricks with the Trans Am as well as lexan windows, a complete interior gutting, and anything not necessary for the function of the car to be removed. I'm hoping to find some really cheap "Strano" springs that perhaps someone isn't using anymore. If not I'll have to make do with the stock stuff with maybe a coil snipped here and there. My main budget hit is going to be for (11" wide) wheels and tires because I believe they have the biggest impact on performance. I hope to do nitrous for the drags if I have room in the budget and the car will be completely cleaned and painted because it will be judged in a concourse as well.
I'm not too worried about the engine's longevity. It only has to make a few autocross runs and a few blasts down the quarter mile without blowing up. My Mustang had 270,000 miles on the engine and it survived three Challenges and two seasons of local autocrosses. This car only has 100k.
I'm in South Jersey (Gloucester County) if anyone's close.

[NJSPEEDER]

I am up near Trenton. Let me know when you start tearing into it, I would take the cruise down to help.

Check out www.NJFBOA.org

It is a 2700ish member club, lots of members in the area. I am sure there are a few guys near you.

-Tim

[marka]

Howdy,

Check out 18x10.5" stock rear c5 z06 wheels for a wheel option that's light, wide, and won't break the bank. Just doing normal looking, I'm in at about $700 per set of four 18x10.5" rears. And 315/30-18 A6's are commonly available used from the T1 folks.

Only cheaper option is going to be _heavy_ 17x11 repros and you're only going to save a hundred or two. Used tires are getting harder to find in 17" diameter too.

Mark

[matt f]

Kurt at Phoenix performance may still have some wagon wheels from c5 vettes. I'm not sure what price he'd be looking for. If I talk to him, I'll try to ask.

PS, after you're done w/ the car, how about selling it to me for lemons??

[Mojave]

Howdy,

Check out 18x10.5" stock rear c5 z06 wheels for a wheel option that's light, wide, and won't break the bank. Just doing normal looking, I'm in at about $700 per set of four 18x10.5" rears. And 315/30-18 A6's are commonly available used from the T1 folks.

Only cheaper option is going to be _heavy_ 17x11 repros and you're only going to save a hundred or two. Used tires are getting harder to find in 17" diameter too.

Mark

I think $700 wheels are way too expensive for a car that has to come in at $2010. I'd look for some 16x10-16x12 steelies from the dirt track/CP crowd and stick some used non-DOT tires on them.

[hrdlydangerous]

First of all let me say that I'm flattered by the willingness of you all to help out a newbie that you've never met with his car.

That being said, I will check out the NJFBOA site. Thanks for the tip, Tim. As soon as I get the ignition sorted out I'll start tearing into the car in earnest. It runs now but is mixing up the cylinders. I've tracked it down to a bad opti-spark.

The wheels will be the toughest part. I entertained the C5 wagon wheels. It seems they pop up on Craigslist for cheap now and then. I can get some repro 17x11's from discount tire for about $400 shipped. I'm not so concerned with weight as much as the mechanical grip the wide tires will afford me. NJMP is not too far away so as soon as the race season starts I'll see what people are throwing away and make my decision based on that.

marka, what is the T1 crowd? I know it's a class but is it autocross or road race?

mojave, that's not a bad idea but I'm limited to DOT rubber in the autocross of the Challenge.

mattf, Believe it or not I bought it (stole it) for lemons budget plus a few bucks. After I get done with it I doubt it will pass Mr. Lamm's B.S. inspection without an earth shattering lap penalty assessed.

[dailydriver]

T1 is/(was??) the SCCA's Touring 1 road racing class which (I believe) replaced the Showroom Stock A class.
There are/(were?) slightly more mods allowed than showroom stock, and it was mostly occupied by various f bodies and 'Stangs.

The A/R6es used in that class ARE DOT rubber, but they are NOT 140 treadwear+ 'street touring/street modified' street tires (IF that's what the Challenge rules require?).

[NJSPEEDER]

As for the wheels, 17x11's or some 18's would be ideal obviously, but the cost of wheels and tires jumps up dramatically with size. Keep an eye out for a set of SS 10 spokes. They are 17x9, so 275's will fit easily, they are fairly light, and they are pretty easy to find cheap.

-Tim

[EchoMirage]

I think $700 wheels are way too expensive for a car that has to come in at $2010. I'd look for some 16x10-16x12 steelies from the dirt track/CP crowd and stick some used non-DOT tires on them.

exactly. even though looking at some of the cars in the mag, there is NO WAY they only spent $2K on them. i don't care what they claim in their articles.

FYI, i got a set of wagon wheels off ebay, $220 shipped, without tires. keep looking around, use an auction sniper if you have one. you can 'sell' the fronts to recoup some cost.

[Mojave]

I think $700 wheels are way too expensive for a car that has to come in at $2010. I'd look for some 16x10-16x12 steelies from the dirt track/CP crowd and stick some used non-DOT tires on them.

exactly. even though looking at some of the cars in the mag, there is NO WAY they only spent $2K on them. i don't care what they claim in their articles.

FYI, i got a set of wagon wheels off ebay, $220 shipped, without tires. keep looking around, use an auction sniper if you have one. you can 'sell' the fronts to recoup some cost.

It's all about buying donor cars and selling off the parts you don't need, as well as doing lots and lots of labor to make what you do have look gooood.

Fair is doing an E30 V8 build for $2010 Challenge: http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42099

Definitely worth a read.

[00 Trans Ram]

You can spend $5000 on wheels - they (along with tires) are considered a safety item.

The quesiton is "should" you get the biggest tires available. You can be 100% within the rules, not even pushing them, and still get some arbitrary penalties from the judges. If you show up with a 2500lb F-body making 300rwhp on 315 rubber, you WILL get penalized.

You've got 2 choices for tires. Run stock 16x8 wheels and 245ish tires. They'll last the whole race, and be OK.

Or, you can try to pull a fast one. Show up on stock 16x8s with junky tires and get the car inspected with those. But, have the 18x10.5s in the back of a van or something. After you go through the inspection, just before the race, change tires. It's not against the rules at all.

The only problem is that they can impose those penalties at any time during the race. They may notice the tires, and decide that they don't like the fact that you tried to pull a fast one. Then you'll be sitting in the pits for an hour while they make you lick honey off the car or something.

My advice is to just get 16x8 stockers and slap some good 245s on there. If you can run all the laps and not get penalized or breaking, then your chances of winning are probably better than 90%. If you research the results, you'll find that the winners almost NEVER turn the fastest laps - they are the ones that simply stay out on track the most.

[Thinkkker]

You can spend $5000 on wheels - they (along with tires) are considered a safety item.

I think stuff is getting garbled here. I think he is build a $2010 Challenge Car, NOT a Lemons car. Totally different animals.

All parts are to be added to the $2010 cost, there is not a "Safety" break that I know of.

[hrdlydangerous]

Thinkkker is right. I'm building for the Grassroots Challenge. You have a $2010 budget all in except for bolt in roll bars, seat belts, fire extinguishers, and stock brake pads. Lemons budget is $500 but things like tires and safety equipment don't add to your budget. I know some of the lemons teams spend upwards of $4000 on their $500 cars. Here's a link to the Grassroots rules... Challenge Rules

[EchoMirage]

You can spend $5000 on wheels - they (along with tires) are considered a safety item.

I think stuff is getting garbled here. I think he is build a $2010 Challenge Car, NOT a Lemons car. Totally different animals.

All parts are to be added to the $2010 cost, there is not a "Safety" break that I know of.

exactly. plus, the minimum id run is stock 17x9. im sure you don't need receipts of every purchase, so for all they know, you can get a stock set of 17x9 rims for $100 (which is close to truth anyway). im SURE prices are fudged in every way possible.

the saying back in the heyday of the trans am series was, and still is, 'racing is cheating, and cheating is racing.' you really think those guys put together a turbo charged vette with an M1 abrams blower motor for under 2K?

you can tell who actually puts together a car for the required 2K. there was a guy who got a 944 out of a junkyard. listed in his description of mods was a nothing tune up and detailing. i think he used the same tires that were on it in the junkyard. he actually stayed within the budget (buying any porsche is a bad idea for this) and wound up with a bone stock car.

This post has been edited by EchoMirage: Feb 5 2010, 10:14 PM

[hrdlydangerous]

There's always that level of doubt but having been to several of these I have to say that more cars are legit than not. The Challenge rewards ingenuity, fabrication skills, and smart buying as well as some luck. When building my Mustang I did as much research as I could on the car much like I'm doing on this site. I scoured the internets, junk yards, and swap meets and made some great deals, but it took time and persistence. You also need to know that you can "recoup" up to $1005 dollars of your budget. So if you buy a $1000 car you can sell off things like interior parts to zero your budget. If your car was only $300, you can't recoup any more than that. In other words you can't get a negative budget. All receipts have to be presented and budget calculated upon entry to the event.

I know a lot of people were skeptical of that Corvette but those guys had EVERYTHING documented on their build. It didn't hurt that they were a bunch of engineers with a state of the art facility at their disposal. If the drags had been run that year they wouldn't have won. The engine wasn't running well and the turbos had plastic tubing on the compressor side! In fact the car only made one good pass on the autocross before it started running bad.

Thanks to you guys on this site I now know all about ideal alignment settings, wheel offsets, spring rates, and more. Since I can't post a WTB ad in the classifieds (?!) please keep me in mind for your old autocross tires and unwanted other parts that may be collecting dust in your garages.

Matt

[00 Trans Ram]

Oops! Yup, I was thinking Lemons. Sorry!