Learn me V6 F Bodies Options

[patred]

Kicking around the idea of a track/time trial car and have been thinking about a V6 F Body. Of course an LT1 or LS1 car would be faster but I don't think there's anything but catch-all classes for them, at least for the SCCA. And A Sedan looks to be more than just a bolt-on class. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) However, the SCCA has classed the 1996-2002 in ITR, and I figured something built for a specific class would be better down the road in case I want to sell it.

Anyway, 1987-1992 305 F Bodies are also in ITR, but you can't run 1LE stuff (namely brakes), and minimum weight is 3,465. V6 cars can run the "LS1" brakes and minimum weight is 2,815. I figure rollcage, Konis, Strano springs and bar and onto a good start for a cheap track car.

Looking around on the internet, it appears all the 96-02 cars are pretty much the same under the skin, other than brakes. ??? Anybody have some insight?

Pat

[zlexiss]

In '99 they moved to the electronic throttle body and revised the intake and exhaust manifolds slightly. HPTuners (if you're going to use it) doesn't support '96 V6 cars.

Good summary link of year-to-year changes on the 4th gen V6's: http://tech.firebirdv6.com/general.html and http://tech.firebirdv6.com/

-Jeff

This post has been edited by zlexiss: Feb 8 2011, 10:16 PM

[Blainefab]

Kicking around the idea of a track/time trial car and have been thinking about a V6 F Body. Of course an LT1 or LS1 car would be faster but I don't think there's anything but catch-all classes for them, at least for the SCCA. And A Sedan looks to be more than just a bolt-on class. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) However, the SCCA has classed the 1996-2002 in ITR, and I figured something built for a specific class would be better down the road in case I want to sell it.

Anyway, 1987-1992 305 F Bodies are also in ITR, but you can't run 1LE stuff (namely brakes), and minimum weight is 3,465. V6 cars can run the "LS1" brakes and minimum weight is 2,815. I figure rollcage, Konis, Strano springs and bar and onto a good start for a cheap track car.

Looking around on the internet, it appears all the 96-02 cars are pretty much the same under the skin, other than brakes. ??? Anybody have some insight?

Pat

The early (93-97) V6 cars came with drum brakes on the rear. There was a V6 motor upgrade sometime in the LT1 era. Disc rear may have been an option but I think they became std after 98. The V6 came with a T5 trans, there is a good thread on the T5 variants somewhere here on frrax. The suspension (other than spring and damping rates) and chassis are the same. Is the 2815 weight with driver? That I don't think is possible under IT rules, the V6/T5 is not going to weigh 400# less than the LT1/T56. CMC is a little more open than IT and the CMC LT1 cars are right around 3000# w/o driver. If it's 2815 w/o driver then you'll get closer to min.

[GlennCMC70]

Kicking around the idea of a track/time trial car and have been thinking about a V6 F Body. Of course an LT1 or LS1 car would be faster but I don't think there's anything but catch-all classes for them, at least for the SCCA. And A Sedan looks to be more than just a bolt-on class. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) However, the SCCA has classed the 1996-2002 in ITR, and I figured something built for a specific class would be better down the road in case I want to sell it.

Anyway, 1987-1992 305 F Bodies are also in ITR, but you can't run 1LE stuff (namely brakes), and minimum weight is 3,465. V6 cars can run the "LS1" brakes and minimum weight is 2,815. I figure rollcage, Konis, Strano springs and bar and onto a good start for a cheap track car.

Looking around on the internet, it appears all the 96-02 cars are pretty much the same under the skin, other than brakes. ??? Anybody have some insight?

Pat

The early (93-97) V6 cars came with drum brakes on the rear. There was a V6 motor upgrade sometime in the LT1 era. Disc rear may have been an option but I think they became std after 98. The V6 came with a T5 trans, there is a good thread on the T5 variants somewhere here on frrax. The suspension (other than spring and damping rates) and chassis are the same. Is the 2815 weight with driver? That I don't think is possible under IT rules, the V6/T5 is not going to weigh 400# less than the LT1/T56. CMC is a little more open than IT and the CMC LT1 cars are right around 3000# w/o driver. If it's 2815 w/o driver then you'll get closer to min.

My CMC cars are 2900-2925 w/out fuel and driver. I could see a V6 being low, low 2800's. The difference between a T-5 and T-56 is half of it.
Not sure ITR rules.
I've been asking to allow 4th gen V-6 cars into CMC for a few years now.

[patred]

In '99 they moved to the electronic throttle body and revised the intake and exhaust manifolds slightly.

Was there a change in power?

The early (93-97) V6 cars came with drum brakes on the rear. There was a V6 motor upgrade sometime in the LT1 era. Disc rear may have been an option but I think they became std after 98.

Is it possible to swap in discs in the rear or do you have to change the whole rear end?

Is the 2815 weight with driver? That I don't think is possible under IT rules, the V6/T5 is not going to weigh 400# less than the LT1/T56.

It's with driver. So my car would have to be in the 2590 range. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif) Ooof, it might be a deal breaker to even try if I was actually going to race W2W, but for doing time trials, it won't stop me from trying. I still like it in ITR over a 305 3rd gen.

Pat

This post has been edited by patred: Feb 11 2011, 03:23 PM

[zlexiss]

In '99 they moved to the electronic throttle body and revised the intake and exhaust manifolds slightly.

Was there a change in power?

No change in listed power. The throttle bodies have the same diameter, though the electronic one is straight and the cable one is somewhat angled, which means mods like the whisper lids aren't interchangeable between the years. On the exhaust side, the 99+ tubular manifolds make spark plug changes from the top very easy, more like a 3-to-1 shorty (non-equal length) compared to the older log-style manifolds, but I couldn't tell you if there was a real gain from either of these.

95-98 engine:
(IMG:http://www.tacreationsusa.com/images/Engines/38engine.JPG)

99-02 engine and tubular manifold:
(IMG:http://www.bangshift.com/assets/images/news/2010/Dec/v6camaro.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.collectorcarsforsale.com/parts/parts-images-large/99-02-camaro-firebird-3-8-v6-exhaust-manifold-rh_360239556175.jpg)

For off-the-shelf exhaust, pacesetter makes a mid-length header set, and on fullthrottlev6.com someone did a run of stainless longtubes a couple years ago.

For heads, there's generally only reworked stock heads available (I'd say Abbott Racing Heads is the among the best), but ZZperformance has released a set of aluminum heads for the FWD L36, they should be fully compatible with the RWD. L36 parts interchangability between FWD and RWD engines is a mixed bag. And some valvetrain parts are SBC (like lifters, and springs with a couple minor mods), others are unique.

Be prepared for occasional weirdness such as exhaust manifold studs that are threaded english on one half and metric on the other (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[firehawkclone]

I think 93/97 are 3.4l and 98/02 are 3.8l. Try looking for a SSB car.

[Sidney]

Kicking around the idea of a track/time trial car and have been thinking about a V6 F Body. Of course an LT1 or LS1 car would be faster but I don't think there's anything but catch-all classes for them, at least for the SCCA. Pat

Pat,

NASA Mid-Atlantic is heavy with CMC cars. A few of us Midwest guys ran with them at VIR last March and there were 20+ cars. Before buying a V6 car I'd get ahold of Kent Lydic and talk to him about CMC. We just put together a really nice 4th gen LT1 car and it came in around $13,000. We built a 3rd gen two years ago with an LT1 and sold it without a seat and a few other things for $8,000. CMC is not an expensive class and is growing with all the termoil in AI.

Sidney Franklin
Midwest Region
CMC2 #64

[CamaroFS34]

The early (93-97) V6 cars came with drum brakes on the rear. There was a V6 motor upgrade sometime in the LT1 era. Disc rear may have been an option but I think they became std after 98.

Is it possible to swap in discs in the rear or do you have to change the whole rear end?

The rear disc set up was a factory option on the V6 cars, at least starting with the 3.8L motors in 1996.