Fluid temps Options

[JimMueller]

My car came with the factory appearance package, so it has a two-piece ground effect on the front bumper. If that RKSport air dam is taller than my OEM one, all it's going to do is get torn up over speed bumps. I just replaced my original air dam a few weeks ago with a nice used unit.

[Blainefab]

My car came with the factory appearance package, so it has a two-piece ground effect on the front bumper.

heh - you've been running with essentially zero forced air flow to the radiator. In street driving the fans can do most of the job, but you need direct airflow on track - I suggest that you remove the front ground effect for your next track day. If everything else in the cooling system is operating to OEM specs then it will provide a baseline for oil and water temps.

[Chris]

http://www.rksport.com/main/part_detail.as...d=1&catid=4

FYI, instead of getting ripped off from rksport or a chevy dealer, you can order a 10' roll (they have longer rolls also) of black plastic from Speedway Motors for around $20 and have plenty of material for spare air dams. Then you can make them any length you want.

[JimMueller]

Alan - So you're saying that although the air dam was installed since the day I bought it new, the air dam wasn't forcing air into the radiator because of the ground effects (installed by GM at the factory)? Or it wasn't forcing air into the radiator because I later removed the baffles?

If I recall correctly, the OEM front ground effects use rivets and hangers to attach to the bumper. Having removed most of one on a autox cone and the other original manually to make it match, I can say they don't come off very easily, and don't re-attach very easily. When I was in a later accident I had new ones installed. And the car looks like complete crap with part of the ground effects package missing. I won't choose to remove the ground effects again unless it becomes a dedicated race car - but I would be interested in replacing the front ground effects with something like a hard rubber vertical piece so when it scrapes it won't change color. It would need to look decent on a street car and also have the desired functionality.

In this photo you can clearly see the air dam below the ground effects :
(IMG:http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz9/evcass69/Misc/2736215145_1a001c0870_b.jpg)

Photobucket is causing me grief getting a couple photos up, but here's one from the front showing the air dam is not blocked:
(IMG:http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz9/evcass69/IMG00081-20110413-1934.jpg)

This post has been edited by JimMueller: Apr 14 2011, 12:46 AM

[Blainefab]

Thanks for the pic, Jim. I've been getting little bits and pieces of info regarding your problem, and the pic really clears things up. The ground affects are OK - I've not seen this setup. The old RK stuff dropped the nose low enough to block airflow to the radiator intake, but this one doesn't block that area - leave it on.

When you said this

I bought used versions and replaced the upper radiator mount (which had been modified to use the FTRA), the upper radiator baffle (same), and installed a used lower radiator baffle which has been off since probably 1999 or 2000.

I took it to mean the deflector had not been on the car for the last 10 years. It's on there in the pic, so good. Was it in place at your track session that started this thread? I believe you said that the rest of the shrouding was not in place, but now is.

At this point, if the entire cooling system is back to OEM specs, I would try another track day, monitor oil and coolant temps, and see where you are at. If coolant is under 235 and oil under 290 with a good synthetic and you only do a few track days a year you don't need to spend a bunch of money on cooling.

If it's higher, or you'll be tracking it often, then the solution will get expensive given the need to retain A/C. There are a couple of companies that make a drop in radiator with integral oil cooler. BeCool and Ron Davis, at least. That, with a remote oil filter and thermostat and plumbing could run $1500 or more.

This post has been edited by Blainefab: Apr 14 2011, 08:48 AM

[JimMueller]

Yes the air deflector was on during the track session that started this thread. The lower baffle was completely missing, and the modified upper baffle was allowing air to come up from direct in front of the condenser to the air filter. The replacement baffles are completely unmodified.

I don't have any non-OEM gauges or monitoring equipment installed. I would like to run the equipment to monitor oil psi & temp, but it seems like doing everything at once, including the cooler, adapter, lines, fittings, etc, would prevent me from having to re-arrange things later even if it's more up-front cost. How can I install a manual oil pressure & oil temp monitoring solution on the car as-is?

This post has been edited by JimMueller: Apr 14 2011, 01:06 PM

[Blainefab]

How can I install a manual oil pressure & oil temp monitoring solution on the car as-is?

I'll check the C5 Z06 motor I have in the shop and see where they pick up the oil temp - won't be able to get back to you till Monday.

The OEM oil pressure gauge is probably adequate for checking for drops

In your OP you said you had a scan tool that would log highest coolant temp - do you still have that available?

[JimMueller]

I have a Windows software application which can reprogram the PCM calibration & scan/log the OBD2 stream for playback. The interface to the OBD2 port has a feature, which I've never used, to log without the laptop. Either way it won't be safe to review the real-time readings until after I park the car. But I could just monitor the OEM ECT gauge and if it gets close to 3/4 then slow down, etc.

[JimMueller]

Almost overheated yesterday. Added water and it seemed to be dripping from the driver side of the radiator. Dealer confirmed with a pressure test that the radiator is leaking. Right now I'm using distilled water & water wetter (although it's seriously diluted at this point). Should I use some radiator stop leak and then start shopping around for a LT1 radiator (that's better than the LS1, right?) Else it gets expensive for the aftermarket radiators... Ron Davis seems like >$800, LGM was over $1000, etc.

[Blainefab]

Don't use stop leak - that crap will clog up the block and everything else.

[FASTFATBOY]

Park it and put a radiator in it, $160 ish.

[BryanL]

I have a stock radiator that is used for say 40 bucks. ITs in a good box for shipping but don't know what that would cost. Check azone or 1800radiator. Or get a regular aluminim from a roundy shop or jegs and fab up some tabs to mount it.

[JimMueller]

Dennis at Ron Davis recommended a product called AlumaSeal, does that have the same concerns?

Some options I found:
Ron Davis unit 11-16CA0002 w/o any coolers from Ron Davis: $771
"" w/ oil cooler: $871
LG Motorsports (Howe Racing?) custom with oil cooler: $1125 + accessories ("3X the OEM volume")
Griffin 6-898AE-JXX $625
1998 LS1 radiator (GM PN 52471356), RockAuto, $345
pre-97 LT1 radiator (GM PN 52466004), GMParts Giant, $224
SLP 52466 $290
Repair current unit

Any recommendations?

Edit: Didn't see the prior two replies before posting. It's my daily driver, so while I don't mind buying the Ron Davis unit, he said it usually takes 2 weeks for it to arrive. I just don't want to risk overheating while I'm waiting for it.

This post has been edited by JimMueller: Apr 20 2011, 09:58 PM

[Blainefab]

How can I install a manual oil pressure & oil temp monitoring solution on the car as-is?

I'll check the C5 Z06 motor I have in the shop and see where they pick up the oil temp

The LS6 has a small casting bolted just above the oil filter - very similar location as the LT1 block. That port/bolt boss doesn't exist on the Fbod LS1 or the LS3.

The LS1/3 (Kens pictured here) has a port forward of the drv side motor mount - it has a round plug at the far left bottom of the pic. Is this port buried under your alternator?

(IMG:http://www.blainefabrication.com/projects/2010_03_23/IMG_3357.JPG)

This post has been edited by Blainefab: Apr 21 2011, 09:32 AM

[JimMueller]

The LS1/3 (Kens pictured here) has a port forward of the drv side motor mount - it has a round plug at the far left bottom of the pic. Is this port buried under your alternator?

My alternator is in the OEM location, so it'll at least be a challenge to use that port.

[JimMueller]

The water isn't leaking that quickly at this time. I'm making a point of carrying a couple of gallons of distilled water in the car and 1) checking the level before every time I start the car and 2) not driving too far. I'm leaning towards getting the Ron Davis unit with the built-in oil cooler. It'll have the provisions for the heater, water level sensor & -10AN oil fittings but takes ~2 weeks to build. Any concerns with water vs. air oil cooling? Since it's custom, would there be any benefit to effectively getting rid of the long water line behind the radiator by moving that fitting to the driver side? I'm not sure yet if this radiator is single- or dual-pass, but the fittings are in the OEM locations.

I'll probably buy a new level sensor, new heater lines and new water lines also. Any benefit to getting non-OEM water lines? I may just plug the oil cooler plugs until I replace my chipped oil pan, and do the oil cooler stuff the same time as the pan.

[trackbird]

I put a radiator based oil cooler in my car (a custom Afco racing radiator) and I've had water temp issues. I was seeing 242 degrees at nashville with oil temps north of 300 degrees (coming from the pan...which was getting cooked by the cross over pipe on the exhaust). Anyway, your issues may be different than what I'm fighting with the 3rd gen, but I'm going to move to a stand alone air cooler for my oil to take the extra thermal load out of the coolant. That's my only concern with using an oil to water cooler (if you're not having cooling issues, they work great, but if you are, I'm not sure we want to dump all of that oil heat into the coolant).

This assumes that the oil cooler isn't going to cause other temp/airflow problems that cause radiator cooling issues.

[JimMueller]

Hmm, wouldn't I also have more to be concerned with if the seals ever leak and I mix oil & water?

This post has been edited by JimMueller: Apr 22 2011, 07:12 PM

[Blainefab]

Yes, there is a risk that a oil/water heat exchanger could leak and mix fluids. That potential exists in any OEM app that has an automatic trans cooler in the radiator - ie most passenger cars and trucks on the road. I accept that risk because of the huge advantage in efficiency of thermal capacity vs space required. Before I installed the Setrab tube cooler on Kens car I pumped the oil section up to 100psi and let it sit for a few days with no leakdown.

Assuming no manufacturing defects and proper installation (ie not overtightening connections), any mechanical disturbance of the oil cooler section internal to a radiator has likely already destroyed the radiator.

I haven't used a Ron Davis product, but I see that they are popular with the Vette race crowd. Their street car apps are expensive, moreso because of the extra tabs and fittings for the OEM mounts and plumbing and sender. A race radiator would require fab work to fit and plumb so at some price point you are money ahead with the plug & play.

I'll mention again that a trans cooler is not usable for an engine oil cooler - not enough flow capacity.

[Blainefab]

which was getting cooked by the cross over pipe on the exhaust

This assumes that the oil cooler isn't going to cause other temp/airflow problems that cause radiator cooling issues.

The 3rd gen needs both the bottom breather and the front breather inlets left open. It looks very much like a 4th gen but is enough different to need both. On Schotz' 3rd gen I blocked off the front breather openings with aluminum panels taped on to mimic the 4th gen layout, and Dave had to unblock them in his first shakedown with the car.

Also, the 3rd gen bumper covers get droopy with age, and the bottom is not well supported, can shroud the bottom breather inlet.

Distance/insulation at the crossover is essential on a race car - when I replaced the SLP shorties on my LT1 with Canton pan with long tubes my oil temp dropped 40deg under race conditions.

Putting an oil cooler in front of the radiator without solving the crossover issue may not net any improvement.

This post has been edited by Blainefab: Apr 22 2011, 07:50 PM