I hate doing this with limited information:, Update: Randy is okay- bruised and broken bones Options

[trackbird]

those pictures are staggering. I don't think I've ever seen a car that twisted up that someone has survived. looks like you had all the right parts for the job.

When you end up with a car that thoroughly trashed how much, if any of it do you reuse (wiring,hoses,hose fittings etc)?

Very little I am afraid. Much of the wiring harness was smashed up between the engine and firewall. I think I can save the engine....KNOCKING ON WOOD...the trans and the rear end (with much straightening and repair). And maybe the fire system and the guages. That is about it.

Sigh....I am poor! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

I'd probably pull all of the braided lines and fittings that you can reach. If they aren't bent or obviously damaged from impact with something in the car, I'd look them over and possibly reuse them.

[rmackintosh]

The fact that the main hoop and a-pillar bars never moved is a testimony for good cage design. The bars that bent absorbed alot of energy. Trackbird and I spent alot of time talking about seat mounting in the last few days...... It's awesome to hear you are steadily improving. Were the driver side door bars un-moved as well? If we can help in anyway from Ohio, let us know.......

Yeah, the rocker boxes are pushed in and bent down in front a lot, but the NASCAR bars are pretty much unmoved. Yeah seat mounting is one area where I would do a lot of research as well. As Costas has said there is "disagreement" on mounting seats--too rigid=bad too loose=bad. The RaceTech seat had the upper mounts included so we used them. The fabricator did NOT like solid mounting the back to the cage for the reasons of that 1/2 of the crowd. He compromised with an aluminum mount that was thick and stiff, but had a bend in it so a hard shock rearward would not "break my back". I thought this was a good idea and still do, but would talk to manufacturers before doing it again. The main problem with my seat mounting was it was essentially mounted to the floor, and the floor was "in motion" way more than we could have anticipated.

[rmackintosh]

those pictures are staggering. I don't think I've ever seen a car that twisted up that someone has survived. looks like you had all the right parts for the job.

When you end up with a car that thoroughly trashed how much, if any of it do you reuse (wiring,hoses,hose fittings etc)?

Very little I am afraid. Much of the wiring harness was smashed up between the engine and firewall. I think I can save the engine....KNOCKING ON WOOD...the trans and the rear end (with much straightening and repair). And maybe the fire system and the guages. That is about it.

Sigh....I am poor! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

I'd probably pull all of the braided lines and fittings that you can reach. If they aren't bent or obviously damaged from impact with something in the car, I'd look them over and possibly reuse them.

We will pull all the SS lines and fittings. May will be reusable I assume. We can cut out the bad parts and save.

[Chris Ronson Jr]

Different wisdoms prevail on seat mounting

Mount to the cage, more G-forces hit you

Mount to the floor, risk buckling but get energy adsorbed

definitely. In my Corvette, the floors are essentially ~1" thick balsa wood, so my seat is tied into the cage and a custom made cage was built beneath the seat that ties into the frame and center driveline area (where a drive shaft would be located under a center console). I believe NASCAR also supports this type of seat mounting. I forget which it is, but as Randy mentioned on the seat back, I think FIA says no and NASCAR says yes. My seat has a mount but with a hard enough hit the seat will still move as it's a piece of round stock that moves in/out of a clamp...even with the clamp all the way tight, there's no way in a hard impact will it actually "hold"


Randy, these pictures are getting more and more surreal. And from what I'm seeing, thank God you are here to share this with us (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

This post has been edited by Chris Ronson Jr: May 4 2011, 06:08 PM

[rmackintosh]

Different wisdoms prevail on seat mounting

Mount to the cage, more G-forces hit you

Mount to the floor, risk buckling but get energy adsorbed

definitely. In my Corvette, the floors are essentially ~1" thick balsa wood, so my seat is tied into the cage and a custom made cage was built beneath the seat that ties into the frame and center driveline area (where a drive shaft would be located under a center console). I believe NASCAR also supports this type of seat mounting. I forget which it is, but as Randy mentioned on the seat back, I think FIA says no and NASCAR says yes. My seat has a mount but with a hard enough hit the seat will still move as it's a piece of round stock that moves in/out of a clamp...even with the clamp all the way tight, there's no way in a hard impact will it actually "hold"


Randy, these pictures are getting more and more surreal. And from what I'm seeing, thank God you are here to share this with us (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

THANKS CHRIS!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool2.gif)

[SVTHuh]

Out of curiosity, Im wondering if there is any video of how this went down just so we can get a better idea of how it all happened and what you and the car actually went through..

Good luck with your recovery Randy.. I think I speak for everyone here when I say that we are all glad that you are getting better and better everyday!

[rmackintosh]

Out of curiosity, Im wondering if there is any video of how this went down just so we can get a better idea of how it all happened and what you and the car actually went through..

Good luck with your recovery Randy.. I think I speak for everyone here when I say that we are all glad that you are getting better and better everyday!

I have video from the car behind me. Unfortunately the video is HUGE and I need to edit it....just haven't gotten around to it with the vision issue. Basically, I came upon the slow moving car, which was not all the way to the right on the track. The GT=1 car was mid track. I came upon them over the hill fast, moved to pass the GT-1 car on the left and he moved to the left a couple of times for no reason while I was in there, tapping me as I went by sending me into the slow car.

I will get the video cut down when I can and post the video. You can't see much of what happens to me after the hits though....just looks like a bomb went off....

[DanKeen]

If you mail it on a CF card or similar to me, I should be able to knock something out for you soonish. LMK if that will help. I unfortunately don't have time this week to drive up (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[SVTHuh]

I too can edit it down and host a video on my business server.. If this helps, just PM me.

[v7guy]

So is the blurry vision a result of all the blood in your eyes or did the g forces move your retina around? Did the specialist have any insight?

That wheel/spindle/tire pic still has me scratching my head.

At least now when someone starts asking about building a cage we can put up pictures "this will let you survive this".

[rmackintosh]

So is the blurry vision a result of all the blood in your eyes or did the g forces move your retina around? Did the specialist have any insight?

That wheel/spindle/tire pic still has me scratching my head.

At least now when someone starts asking about building a cage we can put up pictures "this will let you survive this".

The blurry vision is from vascular damage to the retina. There was no detached retina. Just some "blockage" in the vessels from the intense pressure of the G Force/shock of the belts/jolts on my system.

That wheel is INSANE to me as well....HOW IN THE HELL!!!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[rmackintosh]

I have it on a memory stick...the driver mailed it to me..it is 145 MB. I will edit it to just the crash in the next day or so.....

[Blainefab]

(IMG:http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5068/5683785733_b42bac6bfe.jpg)

Randy - In this pic, the tube on the upper left was obviously cut by safety working to get you out, but the tube at bottom right of center that is bent about 60deg - was that damage done by safety or was it buckled in the impact?

[Blainefab]

I'm with you Mitch, CMC rules should allow more in^2 of ties between cage and chassis.

Nah - They already allow way more than anybody else uses.

[mitchntx]

Can we chat about the seat back brace?

I'm having a hard time deciding which is better ... a mount that will move and bend a little during violent impacts or one that is as rigid as a roll cage.

Obviously one that is rigid keeps everything in place. But one that moves, contorts and bends is absorbing and dissipating energy that would otherwise be transmitted to the body.

Now, I'm not saying a piece of plastic and some super glue, but in looking at Randy's seat back brace and the beating it took, if it had been more rigid, the forces that bent all that metal would be bending Randy's body.

Similar curiosity about a head restraint or containment system.

[trackbird]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5068/568378..._b42bac6bfe.jpg

Randy - In this pic, the tube on the upper left was obviously cut by safety working to get you out, but the tube at bottom right of center that is bent about 60deg - was that damage done by safety or was it buckled in the impact?

Alan,

I also noticed that it looks like the harness bar kinked slightly in this pic (or is that an optical illusion?):

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5145/568378..._245d8472ff.jpg

[rmackintosh]

(IMG:http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5068/5683785733_b42bac6bfe.jpg)

Randy - In this pic, the tube on the upper left was obviously cut by safety working to get you out, but the tube at bottom right of center that is bent about 60deg - was that damage done by safety or was it buckled in the impact?

Yes, the safety crew cut EVERY bar up top to basically fold the top back like a race car hard top convertable.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

That bar you are referring to WAS bent in the crash. These pictures DO NOT do justice to just how much the floor is moved. The rear end and torque are worked the area behind the seat up good. The rear bulkhead it pushed out towards the driver probably 12" in some places and the floor is punched up 12" in some places. The movement was so bad, the tunnel tore from the floor pan and rear bulkhead on the passenger side. The all white paint job won't allow pictures to show how massively buckled the floor really is. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)

[rmackintosh]

Can we chat about the seat back brace?

I'm having a hard time deciding which is better ... a mount that will move and bend a little during violent impacts or one that is as rigid as a roll cage.

Obviously one that is rigid keeps everything in place. But one that moves, contorts and bends is absorbing and dissipating energy that would otherwise be transmitted to the body.

Now, I'm not saying a piece of plastic and some super glue, but in looking at Randy's seat back brace and the beating it took, if it had been more rigid, the forces that bent all that metal would be bending Randy's body.

Similar curiosity about a head restraint or containment system.

Yeah, it is a conundrum. My builder went with the heavy aluminum that was pre-bent in between the seat and the harness bar. It looks to have worked as the bent is near collapsed now....I think, like you mentioned, giving my body some cushion. The failure of that mount was not the bend or the mounting...it is still bolted to the seat and the harness bar. The failure was at the aircraft rivets used to hold the seat 1/2 of the mount to the harness bar 1/2 of the mount. They all tore loose. I don't think this would have happened without the massive floor movement. The seat is canted out the door at about a 20 degree angle due to the floor movement, I think the moving floor made the rivets fail. If I was doing it again, I would build a "frame" to mount the bottom of the seat and tie to the cage/car better.

[rmackintosh]

Well...here it is.....

Death of a Camaro

After watching it 20 more times here, the NSX is NOWHERE NEAR the side of the track....I was thinking he was 10 feet off the far right.....after looking again, he was dead center of the track and seemed to be moving to the LEFT. Dunno WHAT was going on there. Still, I think I SHOULD have been able to make it through there. I am typically a VERY CONSERVATIVE driver, and that would count as one of the most aggressive things I have attempted to date however. To bad you can't ask me what I was experiencing or thinking since when I watch that video....I might as well be watching a video of one of you guys....no recollection at all. Sigh....

[rocky]

Holy Shit!!! that looked violent as hell. Glad you are still with us man