I need some help from all the welders out there Options

[Steve91T]

Hello, my name is Steve, and I just bought a welder. I've never welded before, but have always wanted to. I've watched Stacy David enough to have a clue, but that's about it. I just purchased a cheap, less than $200 MIG welder with .035 flux core wire from Northern Tool. Should have just enough power to get me into trouble (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Anyway, I have Corbau racing seats in my 97 Camaro. The brackets suck. I did give one guy $200 to "fix" them. He promised me he'd cut and weld them to allow for a lower, and more reclined seating position. All he did was add washers to lean the seat back. I'm kicking myself for even giving this guy money.

I'm going to get some metal stock at Lowe's to practice and then once I'm not as scared, I'll start on the passenger seat. I figure I'll get better and will do a better job on the driver's seat.

I think Friday is going to be the day I give this a try. I would love it if you guys could give me constructive criticism. I'll post pictures and update as I go. You won't hurt my feelings. I'm fully expecting some of you to say things like "my grandma could do a better job!" That's fine with me.

So, will you guys help me? I know this forum doesn't have the most traffic, but I know that you guys know safety and are very experienced with this kind of thing. My goal is to rework the brackets to give me a lower, and more reclined seating position, along with making the brackets safer.

I'll take the passenger seat out tomorrow and start taking pictures.

Thank you,
Steve

[trackbird]

Before you touch an actual project, go to www.millerwelds.com (I believe that's millers site) and read all their technical articles on Mig welding. Then, get a bunch of scrap steel (of reasonable thickness) and practice. Run beads in a straight line, weld lap joints together (one part laying on the other and welded at the edge, like having a "hand" of cards...sorta) and break them in a vice with a hammer, once you think you're ready to make seat brackets, practice some more, break more welds and THEN (after more practice) start on your brackets. Mig welding isn't difficult. Getting a decent bead that also has good penetration is difficult.

Or...

Use that welder to tack those together and mail them to someone to final weld for you (just another option). As long as you clean up the steel with a wire brush and put some oil on it to prevent rust, you can send them to me and I'll weld them up for you (I'll just remove the oil, weld and re-oil them). Just an option for you.

[StanIROCZ]

See if you can't get some clean (not painted, galvanized, or too rusty) metal from a scrap yard or possible a local metal store. At my local Metal Mart I get most of my odds and ends from their scrap bin for 1/4th the cost of the steel from Lowes.

[wrencher]

Well you will have to learn with a lower end flux core welder.
If anything it will force you to get better at it (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Not the best mig system but it will work. It will get to be easier once you become familiar & accustomed to it.

[trackbird]

A couple notes. DO NOT weld anything that's still wet with the "non flammable" style of brake clean. It can produce a strong neuro toxin and breathing that doesn't end well. The flammable stuff doesn't seem to have the same issue, but even so, careful welding on anything you've just sprayed off with brake clean.

Cad plating (the gold corrosion protection that is put on some parts like Canton oil pans, etc) also is bad stuff to weld through (can also cause poison fumes). Galvanized steel is similar as far as creating bad fumes you don't want to breathe.

Also, clean paint, rust, oil, grease, mill scale, etc off of your steel before welding. The cleaner it is, the better it welds. Practicing on old rusty steel is just going to slow down your learning curve. I use a wire brush (by hand) or an abrasive "flap wheel" on an angle grinder to clean up my metal before welding. You can also wipe it down with acetone once it's been cleaned with a brush/flap wheel/etc. Cleaner is better, so clean your materials every time you weld. Practice like every weld is a job and you won't develop bad habits (and you'll learn faster).

Enjoy your new welder. Making things is fun, just be safe and keep safety in mind.

[EchoMirage]

all you need is a grinder with a wire wheel and a grinding wheel. 2 grinders are perfect so you don't have to swap wheels, but one is fine. you don't need any chemicals or anything weird to clean metal. a wire wheel will take off the rust/coating on any metal youll find, including galvanize. the grinder will shape metal, cut down high welds, smooth welds, and generally reshape or smooth out anything you need.

get whatever scrap metal you can find and practice. for a mig, you want a steady sizzle sound, slightly like bacon frying. you don't want any pops or skips. every weld is different, every piece of metal is different. youll only learn the heat/wire speed by trial and error. read the manual, use a suggested setting as a baseline, and go from there. get a good helmet that fits you comfortably, proper gloves and at least sleeves, if not a shop coat or leathers.

flux core is alright for doing junkyard type welding. if you ever do any body panels, or something that you want to look good and be strong (frames, cages, etc) youll want a gas machine. most migs are gas capable, only the very cheap, low end are gasless only.

use proper ventilation when welding anything. a simple fan blowing the smoke away from you is enough. i wear a respirator with replaceable cartridges when stick welding for any length of time. a simple dust mask rated for welding fumes is also good. FYI, im a UA certified welder in stick and tig, i have to weld for a living at times, and ive done it enough to know that i don't want to weld for a living.

[slowTA]

Find a local community college that offers a welding class for adults, preferably one that is project oriented so you learn by working on your own projects. I've been welding for a few years (learned from a shop teacher while working on an SAE project) and at times I would still like to take a 'proper' class.

[Steve91T]

Thanks guys! I've got a grinder, and I've got a wire wheel. I'll just switch back and forth. I'm off to Lowe's to grab some metal.

I'll post some pictures of my practice welds this afternoon.

Steve

[Steve91T]

Damn this is cool! I can't believe how hard it is! I didn't have much time to mess with it, but for now, here's what I got. A lot of splatter, and also it seemed as if the welder was loosing contact and cutting on and off. I was holding the torch fairly close, so I don't know.

Here's my first attempt! Beautiful, huh? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v199/Steve91T/Welding/Firstweld.jpg)

Here's my first tack job. Looks the one on the left didn't penetrate enough. Right one looks better.
(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v199/Steve91T/Welding/tacking.jpg)

Here's my best bead so far. I'll have to get used to my $50 auto dimming mask. I had a hard time seeing where I was going.
(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v199/Steve91T/Welding/bestsofar-1.jpg)


This is so much fun. I can't wait to go round up some scrap metal tomorrow and practice. I really hope I can get good enough to weld my own seat brackets, if not, I'll tack them and pay a pro to do it. I'm going to watch some more youtube video's and see if I can't learn something.


Now that I have an idea of what it's like, I've got some questions. How do I know if I'm going too fast? What is proper penetration?

Since you guys are helping me so much, I thought I'd offer some advice that you guys probably didn't know.
1) It is a bad idea to wear flip flops while welding, no matter how hot it is in your garage!
2) Welding on a wooden work bench will set it on fire!

[Blainefab]

You're way too cold, there is no penetration. What is the amp rating on your welder? If that is 1/8" stock it will be marginal for a 130A welder. You may be limited to thinner metal. Once you get to where you can see the arc digging into the metal, cut a cross section across the weld and look at the penetration.

Some weldors use a zig-zag motion, some make little e's. With metal this thick just dragging it along will not get you a proper bead.

Best advise yet is take a class.

[Steve91T]

You're way too cold, there is no penetration. What is the amp rating on your welder? If that is 1/8" stock it will be marginal for a 130A welder. You may be limited to thinner metal. Once you get to where you can see the arc digging into the metal, cut a cross section across the weld and look at the penetration.

Some weldors use a zig-zag motion, some make little e's. With metal this thick just dragging it along will not get you a proper bead.

Best advise yet is take a class.

Someday, I do want to take a class, but for now, I don't have time. Maybe I'll just concentrate on cutting and tacking my seat brackets and having a pro weld them. Then I'll return this cheap welded and save for a real one.

Is it possible I'm just moving too quickly?

This post has been edited by Steve91T: Jun 17 2011, 11:15 PM

[slowTA]

You said it sounded like the welder was popping or missing... it either sounds like a bad ground, dirty metal, or maybe a wire feed issue. I would check the ground clamp connections on the welder and if they check out OK maybe turn up the feed.

[Steve91T]

You said it sounded like the welder was popping or missing... it either sounds like a bad ground, dirty metal, or maybe a wire feed issue. I would check the ground clamp connections on the welder and if they check out OK maybe turn up the feed.

Thank you, I'll check those tomorrow. I have a feeling my wire was too slow.

[Steve91T]

Got the wire speed dialed in, and it was running much smoother. Still, no matter what I tried, I'm not getting any penetration. This little welder is supposed to handle an even thicker gauge metal. I don't understand how they figure that. So, I'm going to just tack my bracket together and have someone else weld it. I'll start a new thread with my new bracket design and get some opinions from everyone here.

Thanks guys, I'll return this welder and see if I can't pick something else up that'll work better.

Steve

[Blainefab]

Thanks guys, I'll return this welder and see if I can't pick something else up that'll work better.

Steve

Good choice. My experience with bottom end welders is very similar - with 1/8" metal you'll be at full throttle, and the effective duty cycle is about 20% - meaning the welder shuts down for 8 seconds out of 10. It might work for 18ga but we rarely need to weld stuff that thin.

There are several 'what welder to buy' threads here, the bottom line is a name brand 130A gas shielded machine is the bare minimum, and upping to a 230V 180A is not a huge amount more, and opens up a lot more functionality.

Take that welding class and see if you really want to be a weldor - if so, make the investment in good hardware. If I was looking today I'd shop Craigslist for a used Miller/Lincoln/Hobart.

[Steve91T]

Thanks guys, I'll return this welder and see if I can't pick something else up that'll work better.

Steve

Good choice. My experience with bottom end welders is very similar - with 1/8" metal you'll be at full throttle, and the effective duty cycle is about 20% - meaning the welder shuts down for 8 seconds out of 10. It might work for 18ga but we rarely need to weld stuff that thin.

There are several 'what welder to buy' threads here, the bottom line is a name brand 130A gas shielded machine is the bare minimum, and upping to a 230V 180A is not a huge amount more, and opens up a lot more functionality.

Take that welding class and see if you really want to be a weldor - if so, make the investment in good hardware. If I was looking today I'd shop Craigslist for a used Miller/Lincoln/Hobart.

I know I absolutely want to learn to weld. I just don't know if I have the time or money to invest right now. I was hoping that this would work good enough for now, to hold me over, but it's obviously not.

But, now that I've actually been able to do some hands on welding over the past 2 days, I have a clue as to what it's like. Now I may be able to find a good welder on craigslist.

Thanks,
Steve

[EchoMirage]

http://www.harborfreight.com/120-amp-230-v...lder-97503.html

good starter machine, very inexpensive, does gas and gasless, and says should be able to do up to 1/4 thick steel. i personally havent done it yet, but im told you can get, for a small extra fee, a 2 year warranty, from harbor freight. no questions asked, no hassle, no nothing. anything at all goes wrong, you bring it back and they give you a new one. so you know you have at least 2 years of use. after that, you can upgrade to whatever else you want. it should be enough to get you by, and i cant imagine this not being able to weld just a seat bracket.