 Speed World Challenge ... |
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 Jun 28 2004, 03:49 AM
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#21
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Senior Member  Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,226 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Danville, CA, USA Member No.: 27  |
QUOTE (mitchntx @ Jun 27 2004, 07:38 PM) Randy ... I call it a martyr ... come on, getting out run down the long straight by a Saleen? Sorry, I don't buy it ... I rev my car tighter than that ... and I'm an old man! Young's car pulling the caddy was jaw dropping after seeing them at Sebring and LRP ... 300lbs can't swing things THAT much, can it? It was TOO much ... Mitch... UNLIKE the minor 100 lb. weight penalty to the Audis, Caddy got hit WITH MUCH MORE AFTER SEBRING....not only did they gain the weight, they lost 30% of their throttle body and had a MUCH LOWER rev limiter put on, and had to run a MUCH LESS efficient tranny.....that WOULD EASILY explain why you think you can OUTREV them....you PROBABLY CAN! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) Try putting on a 30mm throttle body next track day and lets see how your times do.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) I think the move against Caddy at the time was right, but I think it is OBVIOUS at this point it has SEVERELY hampered their dominance! I mean a Caddy WITH NO REWARDS WEIGHT CAN'T TOUCH AUDI's WITH TWO RACES OF PODIUM FINISHES...Heinracy IS A GREAT DRIVER! The Audi's had no problem with him he DROVE THE CRAP out of the car to reach them at the end when their tires died.... THE QUESTION IS....WHY USE KID GLOVES ON THE AUDI...WHY NOT HAMMER THEM LIKE THE CADDY....AT LEAST THEN ALL THE PRIVATEERS WILL BE ABLE TO ANNOUNCE OPEN SEASON ON FACTORY TEAMS.....it will be THE END of the factory teams if they get beat with their big budgets, but maybe that is what some people want.... I also don't get how anybody can think Caddy would sandbag to a 9th and 10th place finish????? Can you explain that to me???? If Culver, Oates and a few others hadn't had "issues" the Caddies would have been 9-10..... |
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Jun 28 2004, 03:50 AM
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#22
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Senior Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,226 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Danville, CA, USA Member No.: 27 |
QUOTE (mitchntx @ Jun 27 2004, 07:38 PM) Randy ... I call it a martyr ... come on, getting out run down the long straight by a Saleen? Sorry, I don't buy it ... I rev my car tighter than that ... and I'm an old man! ...oh, and the Saleen has the most straightaway speed OF ANY SPEED GT CAR according to insiders... |
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Jun 28 2004, 11:54 AM
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#23
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FRRAX Owner/Admin Group: Admin Posts: 15,432 Joined: 13-February 04 From: Ohio Member No.: 196 |
Audi was banned (the highest award for technical achievement) from road racing in some classes many years ago.....Hmmmm. (not that I want them to leave, competition is good, maybe add some equality)
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Jun 28 2004, 12:30 PM
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#24
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Nothing says 'I love you.' like a box of Hydroshoks Group: Moderators Posts: 5,284 Joined: 23-December 03 From: Granbury, TX Member No.: 4 |
OK a restirctor on the TB, lowered the rev limiter to "just " 7K and made them run a more conventional trans ... OK
Why are the Audi's REQUIRED to run a production based engine? Why are the Vettes REQUIRED to run a production based engine? Whay are the Vipers REQUIRED to run a productiona based engine? When was the last time you saw a Caddy CTS with a 427 C5R motor? or anything that resembled it? Given the Northstar base and the barn door aero of a CTS, Caddy wouldn't stand a chance. GM bought the chance and there are a lot of SCCA tech officials driving new "evaluation" CTSs. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Now, why are Audi's handled with kid gloves? Speed "World" Challenge ... no other import manufacturer supports for the series. There is a token Porsche ... but he's a privateer ... It's business ...not racing. I don't like it, but I like even less the blind eye SCCA seemingly give a select few. |
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Jun 28 2004, 12:33 PM
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#25
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FRRAX Owner/Admin Group: Admin Posts: 15,432 Joined: 13-February 04 From: Ohio Member No.: 196 |
I agree with you there. Give Caddy the Z06 (LS6) drivetrain and tell them to "suck it up". I'm suprised to see GM abandon the 'Vette (that it has worked so hard to protect all these years) for the Caddy....
But, I think those Caddys are the ugliest things on the road (the whole product line). So, maybe I'm biased... |
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Jun 28 2004, 01:16 PM
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#26
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Advanced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 604 Joined: 30-December 03 From: Columbus, OH Member No.: 70 |
Anyone else notice to lone privateer GTO?
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Jun 28 2004, 01:46 PM
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#27
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Nothing says 'I love you.' like a box of Hydroshoks Group: Moderators Posts: 5,284 Joined: 23-December 03 From: Granbury, TX Member No.: 4 |
Stu Hayner? I drove a GTO ... I can understand why they are an "also ran" ...
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Jun 28 2004, 02:07 PM
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#28
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Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 40 Joined: 20-January 04 Member No.: 138 |
Hi GUys,
It was a really fun race, with my "LG Pro Long Tube Special" Corvette Z06. (shameless plug) My qualifying went bad when my 3 disc clutch gave up on the second lap and started slipping. So I just parked it and took a 10th place qualifying spot. The good thing was that I got a good start and went into turn 1 without losing a spot. At the start, I got hit in the left door in turn one by a BMW that got hit by Phil Mclure. My car turned sidways and I was hit again on the left front by another car and straightened me out. At least I was able to keep going. The damage took away some of my front downforce so the car was a little "Pushy" all race. Even though, I was able to get a run out of turn 1 on Angelelli. He blocked me for 3 for 3 laps but I finally got my nose in on his right rear bumper and made room for my self. I passed him entering turn 2 on the right along the grass. There was just enough room for my car and a sheet of paper but we pulled it off. Then we got a yellow flag for the smoking Viper. On the restart I worked on the McCann Viper's mirrors until he made a mistake, then I got past him. There is no way that a C5 can pass the Viper on the strait unless they mess up the corner before. The Corvette does seem to work better in the corners than the Vipers but they have 8 liters, and that is hard to pass. Then I set my sights on the next two cars. Oat's Corvette and a Porsche. I was catching them by nearly a second a lap and I think that info was passed on to the drivers. The C5 made a low percentage pass attempt and they hit each other and spun. This put me in 5th chasing the Viper of Tommy Archer. I was catching him by 1/2 sec per lap, I set the 4th fastest time of the race, at a 1:29.805, ( the fastest lap of the race was a 1:29.657) but as they say, Catching and passing are two different things. I made some gallant tries but could not pull it off without crashing us both. So I settled for a 5th place. All the while I had Angelelli just 2 seconds behind me, just waiting for me to make a mistake. As for the Caddy and Audi domination? Well put it this way. There has not been another make of car on the podium all season. Were it not for the Audi, holding back and controlling the pace to just finish ahead of the Caddy, then the Caddy with no rewards weight of Heinricy would have left the field. So there is still work for SCCA to do to get the cars equal at their base weight, then the rewards weight will do it's job and let any make car able to win on any day. That is their goal, and their mission. I could only pull 1 car length on the Caddy of Angelelli who had 120 pounds of rewards weight. that is like carrying your girlfriend with you during the race, and they were still FAST. The Corvette is supposed to be the "Baseline". So we have to wait for the SCCA to pull the Caddy and Audi down to our level or let us do some work to the Corvette to step up our performance. Until then, we will do what we can to stay up in the fight. Next race is Sears point on July 18th. Hope to see some of you there. Good to see the interest in the Speed World Challenge here. Thanks, Lou Gigliotti LGM (IMG:http://www.speedarena.com/gallery/albums//Sportscar/Speed%20GT/2004/01%20Sebring/069.jpg) |
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Jun 28 2004, 02:34 PM
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#29
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FRRAX Owner/Admin Group: Admin Posts: 15,432 Joined: 13-February 04 From: Ohio Member No.: 196 |
Lou, glad to have you drop in. It's always nice to hear what happened from the guy behind the wheel.
I stopped by the pits to say hello and just missed you. That hit you took in the door looked like a rough one (by looking at the car). Glad to see that the damage had "minimal" impact on the performance of your Corvette. There is definately interest in the WC cars, at least around here. |
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Jun 28 2004, 02:36 PM
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#30
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Nothing says 'I love you.' like a box of Hydroshoks Group: Moderators Posts: 5,284 Joined: 23-December 03 From: Granbury, TX Member No.: 4 |
Randy, I just read your posts on SCCAProracing.
I now understand your rant better ... Tough break for the Tom Oates ... Glad Lou finally got a whole race in ... although the the start could've been better ... Were you talking with Louis or something? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Why were the Vette's chosen as a baseline? Just lucky? Also Kevin Chambers was doing OK ... till he decided to park and watch for a lap or 2 ... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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Jun 28 2004, 03:17 PM
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#31
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Apex? What apex? Group: Advanced Members Posts: 245 Joined: 7-January 04 From: Portland, OR Member No.: 106 |
Well i missed the race (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (maybe it is time for cable TV)
Lou, are you comign to the PIR race in a few weeks, being as i don't have cable, and i hardly watch TV, my best chance to get to see you and the vette run, would be at PIR. |
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 Jun 28 2004, 04:10 PM
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#32
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Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 194 Joined: 23-February 04 From: Plano'l Texas Member No.: 244 |
Mike, Kevin Mixon (Tom's friend from T1) here glad to meet you this weekend. Too bad about Culver. Tom was holding his own out there. Good showing for the team. Angela was hot! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Jun 28 2004, 04:38 PM
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#33
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Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 40 Joined: 20-January 04 Member No.: 138 |
Yes,
We will be at Sears and PIR next month. Hope to see you there. The vette was chosen as the baseline just because they wanted that level of performance, and they felt it was not going to be too hard to bring the other cars down to the level of the C5. In reality, trying to manage a 4 wheel drive twin turbo, with adjustable torque bias front to rear, is harder than they thought. And with the Caddy, they let them go too far in the beginning with a C5R block and destroked crank with a 90mm tb and big manifold, the engine was moved back 12" from the stock location and the transmission is 22" back from stock. That is why the Cadillac is so hard to make equal since it is not in line with the other cars in the class. and add to that a 4 wheel drive twin Turbo Audi and you have a mess on your hands at SCCA. At any rate, we are going racing and we will do whatever we can to make it interesting. Thanks Lou G |
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Jun 28 2004, 05:21 PM
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#34
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CMCer Group: Moderators Posts: 2,932 Joined: 12-February 04 From: the sticks near VIR Member No.: 194 |
I'm hoping to make Sears and watch you guys. Any way you could swing a pit pass or two for the local gal here? PM me if at all possible.
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Jun 28 2004, 05:56 PM
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#35
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Senior Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,226 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Danville, CA, USA Member No.: 27 |
QUOTE (mitchntx @ Jun 28 2004, 06:30 AM) OK a restirctor on the TB, lowered the rev limiter to "just " 7K and made them run a more conventional trans ... OK Why are the Audi's REQUIRED to run a production based engine? Why are the Vettes REQUIRED to run a production based engine? Whay are the Vipers REQUIRED to run a productiona based engine? When was the last time you saw a Caddy CTS with a 427 C5R motor? or anything that resembled it? Given the Northstar base and the barn door aero of a CTS, Caddy wouldn't stand a chance. GM bought the chance and there are a lot of SCCA tech officials driving new "evaluation" CTSs. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Now, why are Audi's handled with kid gloves? Speed "World" Challenge ... no other import manufacturer supports for the series. There is a token Porsche ... but he's a privateer ... It's business ...not racing. I don't like it, but I like even less the blind eye SCCA seemingly give a select few. ....now THERE you have something I can agree with Mitch....Caddy should have NEVER been given so much, so soon as they were in developing that car....in fact, I was on the Speedvision website bitching about this very issue when I FIRST saw the photos back in Nov/Dec last year.....They SHOULD be running production based stuff just like everyone else! But THAT was not your point....your point was Caddy sandbagging...I think that is a little far flung. I also don't get the conspiracy theorist comments from all the folks who have all SCCA driving new Caddies....STILL WAITING FOR MINE (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) ...I think the SCCA got HOODWINKED good by REALLY WANTING CADDY IN THE SERIES, and bent over backward for them, but WHAT did Caddy PAY FOR???? Upper mid pack finishes??? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Caddy got one over on the SCCA FOR SURE....and the car was NOT built the way it should have been....BUT, they were HAMMERED after the Sebring race, and HAVE NOT been the same since. My question is Audi is OUTPERFORMING EVERYONE....much less the Caddies....WHY HASN"T THE HAMMER COME OUT ON THEM....and if SCCA is worried about losing the "world" title....how about AT LEAST a rubber mallet???? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) |
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Jun 28 2004, 06:03 PM
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#36
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Senior Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,226 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Danville, CA, USA Member No.: 27 |
QUOTE (LG Motorsports @ Jun 28 2004, 10:38 AM) Yes, We will be at Sears and PIR next month. Hope to see you there. The vette was chosen as the baseline just because they wanted that level of performance, and they felt it was not going to be too hard to bring the other cars down to the level of the C5. In reality, trying to manage a 4 wheel drive twin turbo, with adjustable torque bias front to rear, is harder than they thought. And with the Caddy, they let them go too far in the beginning with a C5R block and destroked crank with a 90mm tb and big manifold, the engine was moved back 12" from the stock location and the transmission is 22" back from stock. That is why the Cadillac is so hard to make equal since it is not in line with the other cars in the class. and add to that a 4 wheel drive twin Turbo Audi and you have a mess on your hands at SCCA. At any rate, we are going racing and we will do whatever we can to make it interesting. Thanks Lou G Hey Lou, Thanks for dropin' by and lettin' us know what is up! I ALREADY have my passes for the Sears Point race.....if only my lowly ITE car could run with you guys and me not get run over and killed in the process... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) See you there! |
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Jun 28 2004, 06:20 PM
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#37
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Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 194 Joined: 23-February 04 From: Plano'l Texas Member No.: 244 |
Lou, Good strong run! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I thought you were going to get Archer. Any lap times? It looked like you had him every lap and he was holding you up a bit. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)
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Jun 28 2004, 06:36 PM
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#38
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Video Clip God Group: Advanced Members Posts: 155 Joined: 7-January 04 From: Ontario Member No.: 105 |
I agree with most of what's being said about the politics of WC racing... I'm skeptical on the sandbagging but as we all know, if you don't get caught it's not cheating. Tho sandbagging, as the Caddies or Audi's both may be doing, isn't directly cheating it gives the same impact. It's just not quite as ethical in a racer perspective(not that cheating is either but i'd rather be caught cheating than sandbagging).Either way it's not something that will continue for more than a race or two max I would assume. What driver would have fun doing that?!?!
On the brighter side, good run Lou, even with that turn 1 entanglement you got trapped into! Tell them speedvision bastards to pan the camera once awhile! Sure would be nice to see what's happening outside of the top 3. Lastly Lou, you need to get one of those cockpit cams for broadcast going in your LG C5R(I can't rmember the rest of your plug right now)!!! That beast has one mean soundin motor! |
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Jun 28 2004, 09:02 PM
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#39
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Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 40 Joined: 20-January 04 Member No.: 138 |
Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course, Lexington, Ohio
SCCA SPEED GT Championship Round Three Results with fast lap Fn St # Driver/Hometown Sponsor/Car Pt Purse Lp Gap Fast Time Speed 1 1 2 Michael Galati/N. Olmsted/OH Audi Certified Pre-Owned/Audi RS 6 Comp 34 13000 24 1:29.801 90.52 2 2 1 Randy Pobst/Gainesville/GA Audi Certified Pre-Owned/Audi RS 6 Comp 28 7700 24 -0.249 1:29.647 90.68 3 4 12 John Heinricy/Holly/MI Cadillac/Mobil 1/Motorola/Bose/Cadillac CTS-V 26 3000 24 -0.777 1:29.672 90.65 4 7 22 Tommy Archer/Duluth/MN 3R-Racing/c3controls/Viper CompCoupe 23 2800 24 -8.764 1:30.470 89.85 5 10 28 Lou Gigliotti/Dallas/TX LG Pro Long Tube Header/Corvette Z06 21 1700 24 -10.412 1:29.805 90.52 6 9 16 Max Angelelli/Monte Carlo/MC Cadillac/Mobil 1/Motorola/Bose/Cadillac CTS-V 20 1400 24 -12.467 1:30.354 89.97 7 12 8 Andy Pilgrim/Delray Beach/FL Cadillac/Mobil 1/Motorola/Bose/Cadillac CTS-V 19 1800 24 -20.815 1:30.626 89.70 8 16 44 John Young/Woodside/CA Apex Racing/Saleen SR 18 1200 24 -22.607 1:30.054 90.27 9 6 82 Mike McCann®/Canton/OH McCann Plastics/Viper CompCoupe 17 2100 24 -30.888 1:30.678 89.64 10 18 92 Stan Wilson®/Mt. Juliet/TN Carbotech/Viper CompCoupe 16 2000 24 -31.333 1:31.479 88.86 11 15 34 Tony Gaples/Lake Forest/IL Black Dog Racing/Corvette Z06 15 800 24 -34.377 1:31.459 88.88 12 5 99 Thomas Oates/Chester Springs/PA Tiger Racing/Corvette Z06 15 700 24 -34.926 1:30.530 89.79 13 14 83 Jim McCann®/Canton/OH McCann Plastics/Viper CompCoupe 13 600 24 -49.844 1:32.500 87.88 14 3 14 Michael Culver/Westport/CT First Racing/Porsche 911 Cup 13 650 24 -50.112 1:30.166 90.15 15 25 5 Stu Hayner/Yorba Linda/CA GMAC Cmrl Fin/Trenton Forging/Pontiac GTO 11 600 24 -56.933 1:32.814 87.58 16 17 65 Jon Groom/Boonton/NJ AXA/Porsche 911 Cup 10 450 24 -58.235 1:31.226 89.11 17 23 81 Sonny Whelen®/Old Saybrook/CT Whelen Engineering/Dodge Viper 9 400 24 -58.63 1:32.692 87.70 18 20 56 Rich Marziale®/Tempe/AZ /Viper CompCoupe 8 375 24 -1:02.68 1:32.627 87.76 19 28 53 Mike Hartley®/Cherry Hill/NJ Dezigns Inc./Dodge Viper GTS 7 350 24 -1:12.64 1:34.102 86.38 20 27 51 Lenny Diller®/Garden City/NY King Cole Audio Visual/Viper CompCoupe 6 300 24 -1:13.037 1:33.445 86.99 21 29 76 John Bourassa/Jupiter Island/FL TeamHurricane Rcng/DiamondStar/Porsche 911 T 5 24 -1:19.504 1:33.676 86.78 22 19 6 Leighton Reese/Minnetonka/MN Banner Engineering/Corvette Z06 4 24 -1:23.948 1:32.888 87.51 23 33 02 Adel Elsayed/Boonton/NJ Brisar Delvco/Automoblox/Viper CompCoupe 3 23 -1 laps 1:35.325 85.274 24 24 67 Kevin Chambers/Menlo Park/CA Portola Valley Training Center/Corvette Z06 2 20 -4 laps 1:32.111 88.250 25 8 13 Bob Woodhouse®/Blair/NE Woodhouse Auto Family/Viper CompCoupe 1 19 -5 laps 1:31.361 88.974 26 32 10 Carol Hollfelder/Covina/CA Ford Advanced Powertrain/Ford Mustang 14 Mech. 1:35.009 85.558 27 30 9 Adam Malmquist®/Chicago/IL Pepsi Cola/Douog Rippie Mtrspt/Corvette 12 Mech. 1:33.721 86.734 28 21 33 Tim Wiens/Westminster/CO 1st Interstate Inns/3R-Racing/Viper CompCoupe 4 Engine 1:32.641 87.745 29 22 21 Jameson Riley/Wilton/CT McMillin Mtsprts/Riley Mtsprts/BMW M3 4 Mech. 1:32.356 88.016 30 31 03 Warren Diller®/Garden City/NY Kin Cole Audio Visual/Dodge ViperComp 3 Mech. 1:35.137 85.443 31 13 73 Phil McClure/Floris/IA Aggregate Industries/3R-Racing/Corvette Z06 1 Crash no time 32 11 20 Jeff McMillin/Erie/PA JJ's Snacks/Red Line Oil/BMW M3 0 Wheel no time 33 26 31 Keith Videtto®/San Ramon/CA KEV Inc./LG Por Long Tube Hdrs/Corvette Z06 0 Mech. no time Updated - 06/27/2004 |
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Jun 28 2004, 09:08 PM
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#40
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Nothing says 'I love you.' like a box of Hydroshoks Group: Moderators Posts: 5,284 Joined: 23-December 03 From: Granbury, TX Member No.: 4 |
We do agree ... Caddy was given too much and Audi is hands off ... why? I dunno ....
Randy, I guess my issue about "sandbagging" boils down to a couple of points ... I believe Cadillac had 2 major objectives for the 2004 season ... win the first race they fielded cars and win the season manufacturer's championship. Fielding a 3rd car got them another podium (more manufacturer's points and running mid pack will get some rewards points relief. Like any other team, they are reading the rules and using the rules to their advantage. I also believe, like most every other series, a certain amount of drama draws attention. And I think the SCCA is playing the fans both on the track and off track battle. In any drama, there are those who pull for the good guys and those who cheer the bad guys. I'm not saying either side (pro caddy/Audi or anti-caddy/audi) is the good guy or the bad guy ... just making a distinction between 2 camps. And that distinction is what will draw media coverage, which equates to attendance and ratings. Looking back at the race, how much TV coverage did Stu get for coming up so far in the standings? How much coverage did Archer/Gigliotti get for their battle? Very, very little ... the Audis and the Caddys stole the show ... even from 9th and 10th place, they got airtime. And being in the media biz, it's all about airtime, brother ... while listening to a scanner one time, I heard Ken Schrader ask if he should blow up the motor, in the closing laps of a Texas race, so Skoal could get a little more air time. It happens ... |
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