Does Your Local Autox Club Have Trouble With Lots? Options

[bigshoe]

I'm in cleveland, and we now have lost all of our lots due to trivial shit like noise. The only lots we can get cannot accomodate for our average 120-160 car size.

I was wondering if anyone else has this problem?

Also, are there any clubs out there that have thier own lots that they bought and maintain? That would be very expensive, but may be the only way to get to an autox within an hours drive here (to me autox isnt worth more driving than that).

we've lost lots due to condition, change of management doesnt allow it(twice), noise(twice) - in just the past 2 years. kind of sucks. now there is nothing, and I don't have the time and money to do OT. If this stays this way, I may actually have time to do my schoolwork during the weekends, but a big part of my would rather do some form of racing and procrastinate with the schoolwork.

also, what types of places do you run at? airports, closed businesses?

Miki

[00 SS]

We have had 2 of our sites threatened due to noise. We abandoned one of them when we finally found a better site. We now use one of the overflow lots at the airport. Our noise limitation there is that we must be no louder than a fully loaded 747 on take off. At the other sites we have implemented a sound restriction policy. This has shown the lot owners that not only are sensitive to the issue, but we have control over it. We can even shown them the sound logs from the meters we use to prove just how loud we were. We have lost a few competitors on that lot because their cars had no prayer of meeting the 93 dB limit we imposed. The complaints have come from the condo's West of the lot and accross a main (4 lane) street. As it turns out, a Harley passing down the street between the lot and condo's is louder in the condo parking lot than anything we have ever run on the lot. So far, this has saved our site. We are also in the process of working with a local racetrack to get an autocross pad built with their new expansion.

[KeithO]

Locally in PIttsburgh, there are two "groups" (pretty much the same people) running autocrosses. One group runs in the swimming pool parking lot of a county pool (before memorial day and after labor day since the pool is open between those dates). The other group runs exclusively at Beaver Run, which has a lot specifically made for autocross.

The first group has never had any major issues with the lot, which has been in use for decades. I think part of the reason is that this group runs rules similar to SCCA Solo II rules with 2 exceptions: one, stock classes must run treadwear 140 or higher (otherwise, you're thrown in a PAX class) and two, the cars must be street legal, inspected and licensed. This second reason alleviates many of the noise problems associated with losing lots.

The second group had previously run in the lot and taxiways of a local airport, but lost this lot after Sept 11th. Now that they run at a motorsports complex, the only way they could lose the lot is if the price gets out of hand or the motorsports complex gets closed down. We've been lucky locally and are always looking for new pavement as backup. Fortunately, we never were forced to get another lot under duress...

[Mericet]

In Columbus (OH) we use the parking lot at the Clippers baseball stadium and one of the OSU parking lots. I believe there might have been some problems with lots before this year but since I did not compete then I do not know. We do have a noise limit (100 dB IIRC). Maybe you should look at stadium parking lots. Isn't the Browns stadium away from a residential area?

If you are willing to travel an hour, I have heard of someone running autocross in Mansfield.

[trackbird]

I thought they were threatening us with noise problems at OSU. I am still suprised to see the guys that run with no mufflers (there was a neon driver with a "flange" on his muffler so he could drop it at events). I know it is a few hp, but in a stock or nearly stock car, I'm not sure it makes much difference to your time. And, we have (or had) a contingent of the loudest Honda/Acura products on the planet. I think these guys buy the loudest "fart cans" they can find for the little buzz bombs (and we have a civic that is usually in the hunt for FTD). I really think we need to tighten our noise standards (though I've not had time to run recently, so maybe it has already been further addressed).

It is a real issue and I think many clubs are faced with it. Resolving it quickly and correctly is paramount to the success of our hobby.

[shortbus]

There are two groups in my area.

One uses a local education facility lot. There are not sound restrictions. The lot is used for motorcycle courses, and BMW clubs (and maybe a few other clubs). There used to be a porsche club that also used it but, they lost it because they left the place a mess (so people tell me). There does not seem to be a noise limit, but I am sure they would say something to someone with open headers. They have been using this lot for 20 years and they don't want to lose it.

The other uses the parking lot of Kentucky Downs the first part of the year and the last part of the year. The horse track is open the in between parts. This lot and the previous lot mention is about the same size venue.
When they can't use that they go to Kentucky Speedway. I don't particularly like this arrangement because it is the Cincinnati Region SCCA and almost all their event are located 30 minutes from the middle of the Kentucky Region's SCCA Region. That the Speedway is almost 2 hours away. I will try this place out this weekend. (I want the seat time.) There is no noise restriction at the Speedway.

I heard a rumor that about 45 minutes to an hour north of me there is the West Region SCCA and they use a lot at Wright State. I have not been there but, the rumor is that their lap times are almost two minutes. Their next event is the weekend after this one, so I will try it out. I can report back afterwards.

That place maybe a better idea for me if I want to race twice a month. (which I do) and if I don't think it the Speedway is too far I might get 3 races a month. (which I want.)

Personally I would drive the 1.5 hours if I did not work 3rd shift and need to be at work on sunday night at midnight.

When I was in San Antonio there was a small AutoX group that began and they used the Univ of Texas back lot. All cars were had to be street legal. I did not race there before I left (I graduated and left).

My .02 cents or .02675 Canadian.

[CMC #37]

I've posted about this subject before- here in Sacramento we have lost both venues we were using for autox. Mather AFB was used for years, shut down after Sept. 11 and then was used again until last year for a couple of events then shut down. Never did hear the story on that. Cal Expo, a fairgrounds, was another site that was lost apparently because we "damaged the surface." (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
Our nearest autox is Stockton or Golden Gate Fields (each about 1 hr away).

[sgarnett]

The KY region's main primary site in Louisville was lost for a while due to noise compliants. It's in the parking lot for a stadium, and there are several railroad tracks between the lot and the nearby residential areas.

I think there are three contributors to the noise problem:
1) Unmuffled or barely muffled cars.
2) Squeeling tires, especially street tires
3) Totally unrelated noise from other sources when we aren't there.

Most of the noise the residents live with is from sources they can't do anything about. So, they take out their frustrations by addressing the one noise they CAN do something about, autocross, even if it isn't the real/main problem.

Tire noise is difficult to do anything about. Banning street tires would prevent ANY new blood from coming in. Excessive squeeling probably means the tires are being overdriven, but there will always be novices.

That leaves exhaust noise. IMHO it is irresponsible to run anything unmuffled for autocross. I'm running a Magnaflow which flows almost as well as open pipes but is a LOT more quiet. There are plenty of free-flowing but reasonably quiet options out there for nearly any car.

[trackbird]

IMHO it is irresponsible to run anything unmuffled for autocross. I'm running a Magnaflow which flows almost as well as open pipes but is a LOT more quiet. There are plenty of free-flowing but reasonably quiet options out there for nearly any car.

I have to agree with that. Many of those guys don't seem to think about it that way, or maybe just not at all.

[Absolut Speed]

1) We lost one lot due to 9/11, it was at an active armory. One more reason to hate al-queda. We're not losing lots, but we're not finding a lot of new options either, though we did add a new site this year. However, only one site would accomodate 100 cars, and we only get it on holiday weekends.

We did nearly lose one lot, and now pay more for it because of it, due to a non-scca group that trashed a lot and didn't pick up after themselves.

2) If I recall, there are sound decibel limits in the rule book. I think they should be enforced. Nothing worse than the sound of an unmuffled 4-banger at 7000rpm's bouncing off airport hangars all around you.

[Mericet]

I thought they were threatening us with noise problems at OSU. I am still suprised to see the guys that run with no mufflers (there was a neon driver with a "flange" on his muffler so he could drop it at events). I know it is a few hp, but in a stock or nearly stock car, I'm not sure it makes much difference to your time. And, we have (or had) a contingent of the loudest Honda/Acura products on the planet. I think these guys buy the loudest "fart cans" they can find for the little buzz bombs (and we have a civic that is usually in the hunt for FTD). I really think we need to tighten our noise standards (though I've not had time to run recently, so maybe it has already been further addressed).

It is a real issue and I think many clubs are faced with it. Resolving it quickly and correctly is paramount to the success of our hobby.

Kevin, Bill was checking noise levels this weekend. The loudest car he measures was a BSP Vette at 99dB. He mentioned it was just under the limit. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

[trackbird]

I guess it is "fixed". I hope that's low enough.

[00 Trans Ram]

Down here in New Orleans, we run two venues. One, is an abandoned airstrip at the local Joint Reserve Base. Luckily, one of our former auto-xers is pretty high up in the Navy, so we use the base for free! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Our other is a parking lot of a baseball stadium (Nov-Feb only). It is surrounded by the stadium, a highway, railroad yard, and soccer fields on all four sides.

I run open stock headers, and have had no noise problems so far. It's even driven on the street next to cops (at idle throttle, though). BTW, as to the Magnaflow theory - you are right. However, I'm going to spend all my money on performance GAINING modifications before I worry about doing anything that makes the car sound better.

[35th_Anniversary...]

My Home Region (Glen):
We are very welthy and are considring buying and maitaining a lot. All of our lots are small, butwe usully only hve 25-40 drivers. Still sucks to use a small lot. We are waiting on rumors that a local tourist attraction will re-open and pave their lot.... We also refuse to use any lot more than once in a year. Our last event had a decnt lot, but we could only set up a pathetic course due to the ruts, potholes, seams and areas where the pavement is already coming up. We also ripped up some asphalt. Very uncool. Someone should have mentioned that. I noticed when I went out to pick up cones at the end.

Central PA: uses a small airport exclusively. Paddock & grid is in the parking lot. Course is on the taxiways, however they are talking about maybe using the runways

Western NY: Uses mostly college campus parking lots. Also has 2 events at a local go-kart track.

Finger Lakes: Uses two of the local college parking lots plus one nearly abandoned corporate parking lot. This last site is in question over noise, though there are almost no loud cars, and also questions about possible new ownership of the lot. It is a good sized lot, however it is sealed and a little rough.

Southern NY: Uses one college campus lot most of the time, also uses a 1/2 mile? oval.

Central NY - been there only once, used a mall parking lot. Some ricer shoppers decided to to stupid shit near the event. This is a possible problem if the mall associates civilians with the SCCA event.

NYR (though I haven't been there-yet) I think uses the lots at the Nassau Colisuem exclusively.
WDC uses a small lot at FedEx field, so I've heard. They may use other lots as well.

If only the big lot at FedEx field was concrete (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) lol

[2000Z-71]

We lost one of our venues due to Arizona Motorsports Park being closed down by the county under the guise of noise complaints from the neighbors. AMP was a great privately owned facility built especially for club racing with a 2.7 mile road course and a huge skidpad for autocross and lots of space for pits and grid. The board of commissioners voted to rescind its use permit only 1 year after construction had completed and only 2 days before we were to host an SCCA regional tour event.

The whole deal was rather fishy. AMP is directly off the end of the runway for Luke Air Force base which is the F-16 training base. You tell me which makes more noise a Corvette with open headers or a flight of F-16's on take-off roll under full afterburner. There are no houses in the immediate vicinity. Suncor Development was involved and bused residents in from one of their "active adult" communities to the board meeting in order to protest. Wigwam Resort was also heavily involved in getting the facility shut down. Suspiscion has run rampant as to what backroom deals were made with the comissioners. The whole thing is in court now with little hope of the facility opening again.

We've got 2 venues now, Firebird Raceway and Phoenix International Raceway. I don't think we're in an danger of losing either one of those. We just got spoiled with the space and facilities at AMP.

[robz71lm7]

The KY region's main primary site in Louisville was lost for a while due to noise compliants. It's in the parking lot for a stadium, and there are several railroad tracks between the lot and the nearby residential areas.

I think there are three contributors to the noise problem:
1) Unmuffled or barely muffled cars.
2) Squeeling tires, especially street tires
3) Totally unrelated noise from other sources when we aren't there.

Most of the noise the residents live with is from sources they can't do anything about. So, they take out their frustrations by addressing the one noise they CAN do something about, autocross, even if it isn't the real/main problem.

Tire noise is difficult to do anything about. Banning street tires would prevent ANY new blood from coming in. Excessive squeeling probably means the tires are being overdriven, but there will always be novices.

That leaves exhaust noise. IMHO it is irresponsible to run anything unmuffled for autocross. I'm running a Magnaflow which flows almost as well as open pipes but is a LOT more quiet. There are plenty of free-flowing but reasonably quiet options out there for nearly any car.

I'm a participant as well in KYR. Some of this is their own fault. I've NEVER seen noise equipment being used on site and there was one event before we lost the site where it was needed. There was a spec miatia which was ridiculously loud and a blown SM2 Mustang with LT's, off-road pipe, and a cutout. It was their fault for letting these cars run. I asked before on KYR's message board if equipment was used or owned by KYR, but I never got a response. There was no way these cars were legal.

From what I understand the complaints came from one or two people in particular that spoke for themselves, not the homeowner's association. However, there are train tracks and trains that go by rght between the stadium and their homes. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) There are also planes that go by as well. IIRC, tires were a complaint as well as engine noise.

[00 Trans Ram]

Oh, I forgot to add: we have a Z06 with heads/cam, making about 450RWHP that runs open LT headers. You ask what is louder than an F-16 taking off under full afterburner? This thing would be up there!
And, no complaints as yet!!

[CMC #37]

Man! That really sucks to hear about AMP. I had heard some mention of the problems there, probably in Grassroots Motorsport mag. I hope you racers out there will figure out a way to boycott those involved.

[98_1LE]

We don't have that problem here. There is only one lot (of 3) where we can't run open exhaust. Unfortunately those two are also the slick asphalt lots where more power isn't always helpful.

[sgarnett]

I think the thresholds are too high. The Central KY region does monitor sound levels at some sites. When I've run it, I've been amazed at how loud a car could be on course and still not hit the limits.

As much as I love the sound of a built engine at WOT on open pipes, I like getting to race more.