What to look for when buying '01 or '02 Options

[Dave B]

I have one of the last LT1 cars and need to upgrade to an LS1. The '01s and '02 are coming off lease and seem tempting.

I figure there must be somethings to look out for compared to the LT1. What are the common engine failure/warranty fixes? I know the power steering pump is a big problem for race track use. On my LT1 this was solved with pulleys but it has a remote reservoir. Are pulleys available for LS1 cars? Do they work or do I need a power steering cooler?

Any easy fix for the rear wheel brake hop?

This car will be used for street and track use including competition but the engine will be stock except for a lid and possibly headers ( if they are worth it)

Also if I get an intake lid is there any difference in power between SS/WS6 cars and regular coupes? I will be altering the suspension significantly so it doesn't matter about the stock spring rates etc.

Another small point. I bought my LT1 new and defintely did not want T tops as they seem to leak. If you have them do your T tops leak? It may take me a while to find a relatively loaded car without them.

[John_D.]

The only time I've noticed my '98 leak, is when I'm at a high pressure drive-through car wash. (the kind where you sit in the car and the jets move back and forth over the car)

The left front corner (driver's side, front, just about over my knee) and the right rear corner (passenger side, rear floorboard). It's only a little, right after the jets pass over. I think it's in those 2 opposite corners because the left front tire is up on that little ramp do-hicky that tells the car wash that you're in position.

I can't think of anything significant to look out for. This has been discussed a few times over on ls1tech.com

The older ls1 cars sometimes had sudden oil pump failures. I think all of them sometimes spew a rocker bearing. Some people have trouble with window motors. The older ones were more prone to oil getting through the pcv, but the 01-02 should be ok.

If you're going to be turning high rpms for long periods of time, you should probably just go ahead and get a TurnOne power steering pump. A cooler might work. Some of the cars came with a cooler - it's tied into the radiator hose on that side.

[steve-d]

.... you should probably just go ahead and get a TurnOne power steering pump. A cooler might work. Some of the cars came with a cooler - it's tied into the radiator hose on that side.

My '02 has been fine. No leaks.

the PS cooler is an oil to water and is inside one of the radiator hoses.

Steve

[pknowles]

the PS cooler is an oil to water and is inside one of the radiator hoses.

My stock PS cooler is a small tube tack welded onto the connection between radiator hoses.

[Doug Phillips]

Dave, make sure you ask around the clubs up here. Some guys are selling now. I know Dan S just traded in his fully prepped WS6 for a Vette.

[CMC #37]

This is something I struggled with purchasing a brand new '97 Trans-Am. They told me a new motor was coming out, however, I did not hold my breath as that was unproven, and buying a first year of anything GM did not excite me. In retrospect, I made a good decision. Sure, the LS1 has more power, however, the rest of the car is fundamentally the same (I know you know that , however, I have a point). I did the LS1 brake upgrade, now I am happy with the brakes. As far as power goes, why not spend that $ on simply building up the LT1? That motor is capable of some great hp and torque #s. If it is power you want, you can get it and still have $ left over for some track time!

[Dave B]

Julie , like you I did not trust GM in the first year of a new engine. I also bought the LS1 front brake upgrade which works quite well. OTOH I have been in and driven enough LS1 cars to know that stock they have sig more power and certainly feel lighter in the front end ( to the tune of 70 lb I gather). In the Solo 1 series I run in, modified cars run against stock cars as long as their wgt/hp is close but it is only the modified cars that suffer major engine failures. My stock engined LT1 has seen literally thousands of track and competition miles with no more damage than a leaking water pump. The car is also absolutely the best performance "bang for the buck" and many of my competitors still can't beat me despite spending lots of bucks on their Mustangs/Hondas/BMWs/Mazdas etc. I like to think it is my driving but it is more likely the car.

OTOH it is getting a bit older and we do know that North American cars do not keep their resale value well and a 3-4 year old car has a ton of life left in it for a sig discount from new. ( Got quite a good deal on my wife's Olds minivan that was just off lease at 3 years. 56000 KM or about 34000 miles for barely 50% of the asking price new so lets assume 60% of the selling price)

Doug, as you know I am not a member of Tbfm but I would be interested in anyone has a relatively stock 01 or 02 for sale. I'm telling my wife that all the suspension parts will fit right over to the newer car but I'm not sure she'll go for it. BTW I have most of the stock pieces and the question is if I was going to sell my LT1 would I be better to put it back to completely stock and sell the LS1 spindles/caliper/rotor/pads to someone in the area or do you think some one would be interested in buying the car for competition use? The Chassis is in great shape as the subframes went on at under 2000 km.

[firehawkclone]

my local(bakersfield CA) pontiac dealer still has new ws6's for sale.the one i seen was a auto but the sticker said they had more.and there running radio ad's right now saying they have big discounts on these(all the old cars in stock) car's right now.

[Doug Phillips]

Dave,

You do not need to be a member to join the mailing list. Follow the instructions on the web site. TFBM

I will be happy to post anything you would like also. You can email me at doughphillips@cs.com

Dan's WS6 was already modded including Z06 brakes. You should try to find out where it went and make an offer close to the trade value.

[2000Z-71]

One thing to look for in the 01's, about 1/2 way through the model year they started using LS-6 blocks and all of the 02's have LS-6 blocks. Happy hunting.

[steve-d]

One thing to look for in the 01's, about 1/2 way through the model year they started using LS-6 blocks and all of the 02's have LS-6 blocks. Happy hunting.

It really is a meaningless distinction as the internals are Fbody. The bottom line performance is the same as an LS1 motor. BTW, only a % of the '02 cars came w/the LS6 block. Really no big deal.

[LT4Firehawk]

Dave, one more option for you would be to do an LT4 conversion on your existing LT1 car. It is very reliable, is SCCA legal (ESP for Solo II), and is a lot cheaper than buying a new(er) car. My LT4 puts down the same HP as the LS1s, but has more low end torque and revs higher as well. I've had LT1s, an LS1, and an LS6, and out of all of them my favorite is the LT4. I don't know if you could get away with the hotcam, but even with just the basic LT4 setup I'm making 311RWHP, and could probably gain another 15-20 from headers (which are ESP legal as well). Also keep in mind all the rear axle brake hop problems the LS1 folks have to deal with, while we LT1/4 guys don't seem to have nearly the same amount of issues with it.

[sgarnett]

An LT4 (as shipped in a few f-bodies) swap is legal in ESP. If you do a conversion, it needs to be a complete conversion (whatever that entails) and not just a heads and cam swap, and you can't mix and match between years or between f-body and vette specs.

I'm not that familiar with the LT4, so I don't know if (for example) the pistons or blocks are different, or if the hotcam ever shipped in an f-body.

Basically, the engine (everything between the intake and exhaust manifolds) is only swappable through update/backdate as a complete, unaltered unit.

[Dave B]

Evan, What is involved in an LT4 swap? Is that all you did to get 311 HP at the wheels? I live within 10 min of ARE ( Agostino Racing Engines) and likely find they could do the swap quite easily.

BTW thanks for the advice folks. I am not concerned re class in SCCA as I am Canajun Eh and run in the Canadian Solo 1 championship which allows virtually any mod although your class is determined by how many mods you make and what they are. It seems like a complicated classification system at first but has produced some VERY close races between very dissimilar cars. We run on a total of 7 different race tracks which means some tracks favour light wgt and agility and some favour hp and torque. It all works out in the end to some close competition with no guaranteed winner car.

Still seems the LS1 doesn't have an equivalent to the intake manifold leak or optispark issues.

[Soma07]

Still seems the LS1 doesn't have an equivalent to the intake manifold leak or optispark issues.

Oh no! Not an intake manifold leak, that takes a whole 3hrs to fix permanently... And replacing an optispark every 3-4yrs (at the most) seems a small price to pay to save thousands on buying another car.

Don't fool yourself, the LS1 is a good engine but those cars have their share of problems too. Oil consumption/piston slap, weak clutches & hydraulics, wheelhop under braking , etc.

[trackbird]

Still seems the LS1 doesn't have an equivalent to the intake manifold leak or optispark issues.

Oh no! Not an intake manifold leak, that takes a whole 3hrs to fix permanently... And replacing an optispark every 3-4yrs (at the most) seems a small price to pay to save thousands on buying another car.

Don't fool yourself, the LS1 is a good engine but those cars have their share of problems too. Oil consumption/piston slap, weak clutches & hydraulics, wheelhop under braking , etc.

The roller rockers can spit out bearings on occasion (none so far on mine), mine uses oil...sometimes. It just depends. One oil change it is 1.5 quarts less than I've put in it, other times, it's perfect??? They are not perfect. I'd do the LT4 swap and look at the new Hot rod (I think, or GMHTP) where they show the Direct Ignition System to replace the opti. Still probably cheaper than a new car.

[robz71lm7]

I'd do the LT4 swap and look at the new Hot rod (I think, or GMHTP) where they show the Direct Ignition System to replace the opti. Still probably cheaper than a new car.

That's actually my next mod. www.delteq.com I'm ordering friday. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif) My longtubes are on order and should net me 300+ at the wheels with some dyno tuning at TEA.

EDIT: bad url

[Soma07]

I'd do the LT4 swap and look at the new Hot rod (I think, or GMHTP) where they show the Direct Ignition System to replace the opti. Still probably cheaper than a new car.

That's actually my next mod. www.depteq.com I'm ordering friday. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif) My longtubes are on order and should net me 300+ at the wheels with some dyno tuning at TEA.

Is that ESP legal? Just curious...

[LT4Firehawk]

Evan,  What is involved in an LT4 swap?  Is that all you did to get 311 HP at the wheels?

No, my car is one of the actual GM/SLP LT4 cars that makes it legal for you to swap in an LT4. Here is the exact list of what my car is:
Balanced and blueprinted LT4 engine
LT1 injectors
LT1 ECM (which I've had retuned to match the LT4, which is legal under ESP)
LT1 knock module (which I switched to LT4 knock module)
LT1 valve covers
LT1 accessories (A/C, power steering, alternator)
LT1 AIR and EGR systems
LT1 oil cooler

Bone stock my car made 280RWHP, and with the ECM retuing and LT4 KM (both ESP legal) it made 311RWHP. Here's a link to the dyno graphs:
http://www.lt1.net/dyno.htm

Now, let's look at the ESP update/backdate rule (14.1 section C):

Equipment and/or specifications may be exchanged between different years and models of a vehicle if
a. the item is standard on the year/model from which it was taken,
b. the years/models are listed on the same line of Appendix A (Street Prepared Classes).
The updated/backdated part or the part to which it is to be attached may not be altered, modified, machined or otherwise changed to facilitate the updating/backdating allowance. The updating and/or backdating of engines, transmissions or transaxles must be done as a unit; component parts of these units may not be interchanged. Cars not listed in the Street Prepared sections of Appendix A may not be updated/backdated until approved by the SEB and published in SportsCar magazine. 

So, you would need to update to a complete LT4 engine that matches the specs of what I have. To help out, you might take a look at this page:
http://www.grandsportregistry.com/lt1vslt4.htm
It's got a complete breakdown of all the differences, but remember, the f-body LT4s use the LT1 parts I listed above. It may look like a lot at first, but here's the basic list of things you'd need:
4 bolt LT1/4 block (standard in all 92-96 Corvettes)
LT4 crankshaft (actually and LT1 crankshaft with machinging)
LT4 heads & gaskets
LT4 pistons & rings
LT4 camshaft (hotcam was never used in production)
LT4 timing chain & sprokets
Also, under ESP rules you could bore the engine .0472 in. and still be legal, so you could get a little more power there too. And you can also port match the intake and exhaust ports, which can give you a big gain on the intake manifold to head ports on an LT4.

Still seems the LS1 doesn't have an equivalent to the intake manifold leak or optispark issues.

No, it doesn't have those issues, but it does have it's own problems, the biggest being oil consumption. The LS1 f-bodies also seem to have more power steering issues and like I mentioned before more serious axle hop/braking issues. People worry about the intake manifold leak and optispark on LT1/4s, but I've never had an optispark fail and run all my cars pretty hard. I think they really fixed them when they went to the vented style in 95 (the unit in my 95 got washed many times when I'd hose down the engine to clean it and never had any issues). Also, the intake manifold leak will not be a problem if you seal it right to begin with. The problem was that they didn't give it enough time to cure on the assembly line.

Anyway, if I were in your position I'd build an LT4 enginge and drop it in the car. I don't know if full ESP rules apply to your Solo I class, but if so exhaust and intake are compltely free (you could run full headers, etc). With an LT4 built to the limit of the rules and the best intake and exhaust, you should be able to get 340-350RWHP and probably 345+ RWTQ.

[Doug Phillips]

Dave,

Send me a pm at doughphillips@cs.com if you want some information on Dan S. car traded in.

ARE is still working out their old issues and I think they have a backlog. If you are sending your car there make sure it is clear when you need it back or you could lose your season.