Seeking F-Body Tech Options

[patred]

Or maybe Beecher's blown up motor on Mobil 1.

Didn't their engine blow after continuous laps on a skidpad running the same direction? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Something about sustained G's and no accusump or equivalent?

Also, what weight Mobil 1 are these people using to have their engines "pop"? Mobil 1 came out with a 15W50 synthetic for "high performance" usage a few years ago ... don't know if it might be indirectly related to known issues???

Pat

[robz71lm7]

By ESP rules - Wouldnt an ignition system that allows multiple coils retrofitted to a LT1 be legal?  (Delteq or LTCC)

Perfectly legal. I've got the parts for my delteq install on the way in the mail. There is a guy on ebay that sells new northstar coils and icm for $140 shipped. The ICM alone is $220+ from GMPD or autozone.

As of right now it will eliminate the cap and rotor from my optispark but still use the sensor for timing. However an add-on will soon be available from Delteq that allows you to stop using the opti completely. Although, the cap and rotor are the biggest problem, IMO.

[ESPCamaro]

[QUOTE=

The fact the engine is clean means the oil has detergents. Good, but not protecting the engine per se. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

My engine, at 98,000 miles looked brand new inside.

Aside from spun bearings. BTW the crank had to be turned under .030. Which is ALOT.

(Oh well slower bearing speed for more power (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif) )

[ESPCamaro]

ps., yeah, Lonnie, why not Mobil 1? I don't see any problems with it, and neither did the guys at F-Body Central when they pulled the heads for the head gaskets....

Well aside from the $3,600 I don't have that it cost me, nothing.

And if not for the deals I worked out the same work would have cost well over $4,000. I'll probably always maintain a bitterness about the whole situation.

[Tommy R]

Okay, so exactly how do the Firebirds and Camaros differ in weight? I can see Formulas weighing more than comparbly equipped Z28s. Motorized headlights and maybe a slightly pimpier interior could make a difference, but how much?

Then how much is the difference to a Trans Am? Does the "tall wing" most T/A's have weigh much more than the Formula's spoiler? Are T/A's typically heavier simply because they're often more optioned out? Would a "stripper T/A" with the low wing and no t-tops weigh close to that of a Formula? I'm sure the side and rear fascias add some weight, but I can't see it being more than ~20 lbs. or so.

Discuss. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Tommy

[pknowles]

I got a Camaro because I believe the Camaro's are lighter. Firebirds have things like flip up headlights and power anntenia's which do add weight. AC became standard in 98, so any car after that will have AC and you can look around on the web for how much stuff weighs. I've heard that power windows actaully weigh less then hand crank windows (never weighed either). Take into account that I've only seen a handfull of hand crank windows on Z28's and your probably going to get a car with power windows. T-tops don't really make a weight difference (assuming you run with them out), the roof structure is the same on t-top and non t-top cars; a thin sheet metal roof is tack welded over the t-top supports on non t-top cars, so don't think you are getting a stronger roof structure in a non t-top car. Honestly the big weight options are AC, CD changers, and power seats. Most other options are small. FWIW, the 500W Monsoon sound system in my car weighs almost nothing. When I took out the spare, one of the amps is right there so I took it out to see how much it weighed. To my suprize I have NEVER heald an amp that was so light and I mean significantly lighter then any other amps I have ever had.

[Tommy R]

Thanks, Phil. You touched on some of my weight concerns. I've been doing research, but haven't found quite what I'm looking for. I'd love to see a weight breakdown of similarly equipped Z28a, Formulas, and T/As. Specifically, I'm interested in the LT1 variety since that's what it looks like I'll get, should I decide to move away from the BMW.

Tommy

[Jabberwocky]

Is it okay to run without the t-tops? Locally people could care less when I do it, but it sounds like this car is for something stricter. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

There is also an option of getting cloth no power seats, which I believe saves a whole bunch of weight. But the only car I've seen this in was an 1LE and some v6, I dunno if leather was standard on the regular z28.

[pknowles]

Is it okay to run without the t-tops? Locally people could care less when I do it, but it sounds like this car is for something stricter.

Sure you can, I've run at National tours, ProSolo's, and the National Championship with my T-tops removed. As long as you don't have a harness that goes over the shoulder and your head sticks out above the roof line you can remove the T-tops while autoxing.

I dunno if leather was standard on the regular z28.

Nope. Of course take the fact that the car that Mike "junior" Johnson has driven in and won FS in is pretty close to a fully optioned car.

[patred]

Personally, I wouldn't nit-pick about what options weigh what. Like Phil mentioned, Diane's car has every option except an auto (T tops, leather, etc, etc) ... and it's a single-cat '95, too ... and most people who have driven it (including me (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) say it has less power than most other competitive F Stockers Z28s.

If you find a clean F Body and do all the "tricks" (shocks and bar) and drive the piss out of it, I don't think it should matter if you are saving a few pounds here and there. Heck, if weight was such a big deal, Kent Weaver would've kicked Sammy's ass all day in F Stock. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Pat

[Tommy R]

Thanks, Pat. I agree. I guess what I'm wondering is if the weight between a Z28 and T/A is in the realm of insignificant (<75 lbs) or not (>100 lbs).

I normally would want a Formula or Z28 where I feel the difference is insignificant. However, I may have a really good lead on a Trans Am (hardtop, cloth, low wing, but power seats) for a really good price. I just want to make sure they're not, say 200 lbs heavier than the other F-Bods. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

My old rommie's '94 T/A (t-tops, leather, pimped) weighed over 3600 lbs. on the scales without him in it!

Tommy

[35th_Anniversary...]

I ran without my t-roofs in Peru & DC at Nat'l Tours as well. The rulebook says you can remove anything that can not be held down securely....

My SS weighed in at 3350 without me, no roof, small amount of gas, factory rims & tires last year. Obviously my Goodyear Eagle F1's are heavier than Hoosiers. I did have the ST35 bar on as well. The SS does have a fiberglass roof which may decrease a little weight as well.

Not sure why not many T/A's AutoX. Pontiacs are chick cars... did Pontiac offer a 1LE option?

[Nick]

... did Pontiac offer a 1LE option?

They sure did. Check out www.1le.net and go to Production Numbers.

[patred]

Thanks, Pat. I agree. I guess what I'm wondering is if the weight between a Z28 and T/A is in the realm of insignificant (<75 lbs) or not (>100 lbs).

I normally would want a Formula or Z28 where I feel the difference is insignificant. However, I may have a really good lead on a Trans Am (hardtop, cloth, low wing, but power seats) for a really good price. I just want to make sure they're not, say 200 lbs heavier than the other F-Bods. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

My old rommie's '94 T/A (t-tops, leather, pimped) weighed over 3600 lbs. on the scales without him in it!

Oh yeah, I forgot about the T/A's and their factory body kits. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Though I don't know for sure how much weight difference there is between a T/A and a Formula. 3,600 does sound kinda porky.

Pat

[LT4Firehawk]

Here's a list of weights I compiled a while back for a post on another board, from lightest to heaviest:
Z06: 3116lbs
C5 coupe: 3218lbs
C5 Vert: 3245lbs
C4 Coupe: 3298lbs
LT1 Formula: 3311lbs
LT1 TA: 3345lbs
LT1 Z28: 3373
C4 Vert: 3360lbs
LS1 Z28: 3439lbs
LS1 Formula: 3455lbs
LS1 TA: 3477lbs
LT1 Formula Vert: 3489lbs
LS1 Z28 Vert: 3574lbs
LT1 Z28 Vert: 3591lbs
LS1 TA Vert: 3605lbs
LT1 TA Vert: 3610lbs

I believe these are the lightest weights for each model with no options and the earliest year the car was available (some options become standard equipment over the model run). From looking at this a stripper LT1 Formula is the lightest of all the f-bodies, followed closely by the TA and Z28. What's really interesting to note is that the LT1 Formula is only 13lbs heavier than a C4 coupe (of course, the Vette has a much lower cg).

Anyway, I really wouldn't worry much about whether it's a Formula, TA or Z28. Just find the best one for the money. If you can get a good deal on the TA, it would be a great car. Personally I wouldn't settle for anything other than a hardtop due to the extra chasis flex on the t-top cars. I've had the oppurtunity to do a good bit of driving in both t-top and hardtop f-bodies on roadcourse, and there is definitely a difference in stiffness.

[Soma07]

I got a Camaro because I believe the Camaro's are lighter. Firebirds have things like flip up headlights and power anntenia's which do add weight. AC became standard in 98, so any car after that will have AC and you can look around on the web for how much stuff weighs.

The flip-up headlights don't weigh that much, <10lbs. The power anteana is <2lbs and did not appear until 95. Also AC became standard in 96, not 98.

The big spoiler on TA's doesn't weigh much either (its hollow). I take mine off every now and then to wax the bottom and you can easily pick it up with one hand. Its bulky because its so big but I'm sure its not more than 10lbs.

Tommy,

TA's don't weight signifigantly more than any other F-body. 3600lbs does sound high though...

[bruecksteve]

ps., yeah, Lonnie, why not Mobil 1? I don't see any problems with it, and neither did the guys at F-Body Central when they pulled the heads for the head gaskets....

Oh boy.... Probably has something to do with his blown up motor on Mobil 1. Or maybe Kevin Howell's blown up motor on Mobil 1..... Or maybe Beecher's blown up motor on Mobil 1. Or any of the little things I've had happen with Mobil 1 like excessive usage that lessened or stopped when the brand was changed.

Come to think of it, the only LT1 or LS1's I've seen pop were on Mobil 1. I don't know what McGeorge runs in the MR2, but I'd bet it was Mobil 1 and Tim had the same problem in Peru that the V-8's did...... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

The fact the engine is clean means the oil has detergents. Good, but not protecting the engine per se. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Basically, you've been luckily (like most of us) to not have a problem that really would stress the oil film. Synthetics are about protection (and a little power too <g>). I don't expect you to have a problem just because you on on Mobil 1. But I'd expect any problem that might occur to be more serious than it should be. MHO and only based on my experiences, which are numerous. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

My car's been running Mobil One since I've owned it and currently has 187,000 miles on it. Still doesn't burn oil, still runs strong for a LT1.

I would suspect something else besides oil. A lot of people run Mobil One and DON'T blow engines too.

[CamaroFS34]

AC became standard in 98, so any car after that will have AC and you can look around on the web for how much stuff weighs.

Actually, AC was standard starting in '96. When I picked up my 1LE car at the dealership, one of the first things I saw were the AC controls on the dash. I freaked, thinking that the dealer had screwed up my order. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Karen

[pknowles]

Actually, AC was standard starting in '96. When I picked up my 1LE car at the dealership, one of the first things I saw were the AC controls on the dash. I freaked, thinking that the dealer had screwed up my order.

Karen

Your right, now I remember seeing a 97 1LE car with AC. Cool.

[trackbird]

I wanted to order a 2002 1LE, but, as I remember, you had to buy an SS (mostly loaded as I remember) and then the $3500 1LE package. It became an overweight, $34,000 Camaro. Mine is too loaded as it is (and 3 weeks later a manual window, hard top showed up on the lot for $23,500....I was quite miffed). Mine is "everything but an SS" (sadly) and it should be very heavy. I've not weighed it yet.