Open Track Skill Level and Saftey Restrictions Options

[tom97ss]

Just something i was thinking about on way into work this am.....

At local Dragstrips, they require cages and other saftey features for sub 11 (?) second cars. Based on some of the postings and my own experience (70mph spin into a gravel trap 2 feet short of the tire wall) Do you guys think at some point (unfortunatly maybe when someone gets killed) there will be restrictions placed on street cars as far as saftey equipment,speed..etc... and not just separate groups based on experience? I'm afraid of a kid (nothing personal, i'll be the first to admit to be young and dumb and fearless at one point (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) ) or any body with litttle or no experience in a 300+ hp car really wiping out good in a street belted no roll caged car.....

Just a random thought :leaving:

[NataSS Inc]

i am going to say that there needs to be some type of restrictions as far as open tracking. Most of us that plan on making some runs at decent speeds are already prepped along with the car for that kind of work. But I have seen a number of cars go out there that cook down the front straight at over 130mph with nothing more than a helmet and a seat belt.

Its just a matter of time till someone dies, someone gets sued, a track gets closed, new regs come into effect that will cause even a casual lapper to reconsider going becuase the new regs require parts/equip that they cant afford.

Its an ugly triangle.

[mjf454]

It has always struck me as strange that there is no real safety requirements or a tech inspection for open track events. N.H.RA. has some strict rules, but they do make sense. I did not want to put a roll bar in my brand new car just cause it ran 11's. Now that I open track I am glad I did.

[KeithO]

I don't necessarily disagree with the point being made, but running the quarter mile down a concrete tunnel make it more likely to have serious, hard contact than *most*locations around a road race course. Runoff room, tire barriers, etc.

[mjf454]

Thats true. I went head on into the wall at Pomona at about 125mph (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) With the 12 point cage and other safety equip. I had im my car, I hardly felt it. Had I just had a stock seat and belt I would of wound up somewhere in the grandstands.

[Rob Hood]

Both times I attended driving schools at Portland I only had a helmet and factory seat belts, as did my instructors, and I got to 135 easily. I also got to see the faster group wad up a Porsche and a Ferrari at the second school. Neither of those cars had a rollbar.

Safety equipment is great and quite necessary. While the NHRA requires a rollbar for the 11-second club, you can still get in just as much trouble with a 13.5 sec car, since their trap speeds sometimes are just as high as the 11 sec car.

I would think that the recent accident out at Buttonwillow earlier this year would only reinforce the requirement for having a certain amount of safety equipment, to include at least a 4-point rollbar. From a schooling perspective, the rollbars may not have to be required, as not all people who enroll in the entry-level driving schools intend to advance to higher levels of racing instruction or go on into roadracing. In that case, I would think that the school's instructors would ensure that they explain to the student that they are in overall control of the car, and the student is merely operating the vehicle under the instructor's tutelage and approval. (I think this is done already by most schools.) Perhaps if a student is approved to advance to a higher level of instruction, a requirement may be that the student's car have a rollbar (minimum 4-point bolt-in) before participating in the advanced driving course.

[Crazy Canuck]

i've been taunted for awhile for driving around lapping with no rollbar... i ended up getting it cause it was cheap for the insurance it provides... and i'm glad i did it... only regret is not having it done earlier... and i regret not getting a 5-pt.
Now... need some real seats and harness.

[98_1LE]

I have decided to put a roll bar in my car, even though it is not required for anything I compete or drive in (this may be a coincidence). The fastest I have been at an event is 166 mph (Texas Mile), and the only safety equipment I was required to have was an SA95 or better helmet, and a fire extinguisher.

[mitchntx]

I honestly think that it comes down to a person's own maturity level.

At some point in time, whether it be age, skill level or horses under the hood, a driver has to decide when enough is enough.

When you look around you and see RACE prepped cars which have 20mph less terminal velocity on the front straight than my street car, it's time to take a long hard look at what it is you are doing and who all can be affected by a bad decision resulting in a really bad day.

[Jon A]

Well said, Mitch. I put in a rollbar last year while at stock power levels and felt a bit "guilty" not having a seat and harness this year. That's something I'm about to remedy....

[tracknut]

NCRC was one of the first (maybe the first) clubs in CA to require roll protection for convertibles where the driver couldn't pass the "broomstick test". Most folks would think this would have been very easy to implement, it's only common sense. But you'd be amased at the bashing we took for it. I still get quite a bit of heat, usually from the novice levels, about that requirement. The feedback seems to be that the driver is an adult, responsible for his own destiny (head), and has been driving for many years without a rollbar, so why change now?

It's a very tough balance for DE/OT events, but I absolutely agree we've got to raise the safety level a bit.

Dave

[robz71lm7]

At the same time how do you guys feel with a roll bar inside your street car? I know at least Jon's open tracker is his daily driver. I'd just be paranoid about my skull cracking open on it.

Of course I do believe you'll see a revolution in OT where roll bars become mandatory. I would just hope the advances in safety don't come at the price other motorsports have paid. The classic wait til a few people get killed before implementing safety devices. Many driver's rebel against safety requirements saying that they are grown men. But look at Nascar. I believe it was Fireball Roberts that wouldn't wear a nomex suit. He later was killed from burns in a firey crash. Today there is Dale Jr. who luckily started wearing a closed face helmet but often didn't wear gloves and got badly burned this year. Or the whole neck restraint saga. History repeats itself and those tough guys that wait til the rules require it will continue to get burned.

[NataSS Inc]

when I went through my first driving school my car prep was, well...overkill. Huge roll cage, racing seats, harness's etc. The instructor suprisingly enough did not wear his belts because he wanted to show me the lines of the course. At the same time saying that because my car was prepped like it was he was allowing me to go well above the sppeds that seatbelt/helmet only cars were. he says this as I am cooking down the front straight at Pacific Raceways at 165mph and he doesnt have the harness on. Go figure.

Can someone explain the "broomstick" test to me. Thats one I havent heard of.

I personally think that there whould be some form of tech. inspection prior to a open track day. And some form of Harness/roll protection requirements. However this would really kill new entry into the sport/hobby. There are so many people that show up to open track days with ZERO prep on the car. Vette guys in this area RARELY show up with any form of protection. When I go out even for a lap day, I suit up like I am going to an event. Fire suit, long johns, balaclava, gloves, shoes, collar, arm restraints, EVERYTHING. You never know when things are gonna go south on you. "Shit Happens", I believe is the saying. Some of the people out there look at me like I am some kind of retard. After the first session I always hear at least one person say "OK maybe he needs that stuff".

[35th_Anniversary...]

i've been taunted for awhile for driving around lapping with no rollbar...

Yeah, but you have a convertable. I'm amazed *anyone* let that car of yours on the track without a rollbar. Sorry, but your windshield ain't gonna protect you.

[tracknut]

Can someone explain the "broomstick" test to me. Thats one I havent heard of.

It's more of a visual. Lay a broomstick along the top of the window, to your rollbar (this is easier than flipping your car upside-down). Does your helmet extend above that line?

Version 2 (and often this is where it gets tricky). Assume your a-pillar won't hold the weight of the car (on many rollovers it does, may it doesn't), so draw the broomstick line from about the shock mount points back to the rolbar, and check the helmet again.

Basically it's a pretty obvious way to describe to someone that if their head sticks above the rollbar, it's not a good thing.

Dave

[AllZWay]

While I can certainly see the wanting safety equipment.... ultimately it comes down to the driver to feel the need for such equipment.

I currently do not have a roll bar... would like one...just have not done so yet.

However, I do not necessarily feel un-safe without it. I also think certain track are less forgiving than others and may necessitate the equipment sooner for some drivers.

SCCA has always taken a hard stance on safety items and it has really hurt their recruitment of up and coming drivers. It has always been Too cost prohibitive to see if you have what it takes to race.

However, DE's have been the lead in to many open wheel racers and if some of those folks had been forced to have extreme safety equipment just to test the waters of road racing... I doubt many would have taken the leap from spectator to racer. JMHO

I see it almost as a natural progression.... as you get faster, saftey starts to creep in to your conscience more and more.

[CMC #37]

With regards to the NCRC driver feedback, it is given from only the perspective of the driver assuming they would be the only ones involved in the hypothetical incident. This is not always the case, another car could be involved, and certainly safety workers are automatically involved if any car is on its roof, that goes double for 'verts. Personally I don't think 'verts should be with out a real rollbar on the street, I have seen too many street cars upside down. With the way folks drive you (the competent, attentive driver) are just a small part of the equation, ding-dongs are a much bigger part of it on the street.

[George]

At the same time how do you guys feel with a roll bar inside your street car?  I know at least Jon's open tracker is his daily driver.  I'd just be paranoid about my skull cracking open on it.

This is one of the things that concerns me about installing a cage. I should have one for track use but I don't want to crack my head on it if I have an accident on the street. Another thing is that to have a proper harness you also have to have a roll bar or cage so the roof doesn't come down on your head if you roll the car while sitting upright in your nice new harness which was merely attached to a harness bar.

I think the answer is to have a dedicated track car and not try to half ass your road car into becoming the race car it will never be. However, the foregoing is not allways possible and I will have to continue using my road car for lap days.

Not only am I surprised by the lack of tech inspection and safety equipment requirements at open lap days but I'm also a bit surprised at myself for running around at 120 mph with stock belts and just a helmet.

Anyway, I have a question; is there any type of cage design which would provide adeqate roll-over protection for track use but without the attendant risk of head injuries being sustained in a road accident where the passanger and driver were not wearing helmets. For example, would a half cage be safe if you had an accident on the street ?

In answer to the question raised by this tread, I was wondering about that issue myself and, with the proliferation of open lap days, it seems likely that something will happen to cause a restriction on lapping in it's present form where people basically just show up and run without any significant safety equipment.