 panhard rod, trackbird's panhard rods |
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 Mar 10 2005, 08:23 PM
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#21
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Experienced Member  Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,947 Joined: 23-December 03 From: Everett, WA Member No.: 16  |
Calculate it, silly. Off the top of my head most steels are around .284 lbs/cu in.
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Mar 10 2005, 08:54 PM
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#22
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FRRAX Owner/Admin Group: Admin Posts: 15,432 Joined: 13-February 04 From: Ohio Member No.: 196 |
QUOTE (Jon A @ Mar 10 2005, 03:23 PM) Calculate it, silly. Off the top of my head most steels are around .284 lbs/cu in. True. But, I need to know the wall thickness, diameter and length they use. Otherwise, I'm making a pretty rough guess. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool2.gif) Wait...I get it. Ok, try this. Has anyone sunk a steel (such as BMR) PHB in fluid and can you tell me how many cubic inches of fluid it displaced? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) |
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Mar 11 2005, 04:28 AM
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#23
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Experienced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,947 Joined: 23-December 03 From: Everett, WA Member No.: 16 |
QUOTE (trackbird @ Mar 10 2005, 12:54 PM) I need to know the wall thickness, diameter and length they use. Almost everybody lists the diameter and wall thickness. For example, BMR 1.25X.120 for mild steel and 1.25X.095 for chrome moly. You ought to already have a pretty good idea about the length.... |
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Mar 11 2005, 04:59 AM
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#24
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FRRAX Owner/Admin Group: Admin Posts: 15,432 Joined: 13-February 04 From: Ohio Member No.: 196 |
True. I guess my point was that I don't know anything more than a guess about their "end caps" that are welded in. But, I can get a rough idea (if it were straight walled) that way.
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Mar 11 2005, 05:17 AM
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#25
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FRRAX Owner/Admin Group: Admin Posts: 15,432 Joined: 13-February 04 From: Ohio Member No.: 196 |
Ok. (I made no attempt to account for the end "caps" and am using the weight of a straight walled section of tubing).
Chromoly: 1.25" = 1.22718462890625 @ 40" long that is 49.08738515625 cu in 1.06 (inside "hollow" diameter) = .882473375385 sq in @ 40" long that is 35.2989350154 cu in Subtract one from the other, you have 13.78845014085 Cu in. left. X .284 = 3.9159198400014 lbs (chromoly) Did I screw up the math? Steel: I get about 4.8393595935424 (when I say roughly, I run it out to 13 decimal places (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) ) lbs for the steel one. So, I'm only 50% over weight. Not bad (It's made of .250 wall steel tubing, maybe I'll cut it in half and make a killer set of LCA's out of it..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif) ). (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) |
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Mar 11 2005, 07:18 AM
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#26
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Experienced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,947 Joined: 23-December 03 From: Everett, WA Member No.: 16 |
QUOTE (trackbird @ Mar 10 2005, 09:17 PM) So, I'm only 50% over weight. Actually, if you want to be "13 decimal places accurate" you're 100% over weight. He's 50% of yours. That old, "percent of what?" question.... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) As for the rest of the hardware, I was ignoring his "center adjustment" style since you obviously won't build one this way and he probably won't when his next design of the week comes along.... If you go to thinner wall steel tubing, you'd need to weld in tube ends as well...use the same rod ends, same jam nuts, etc the difference in weight of the tube should give you a good idea of the difference in weight of the final product how most people build them. If you go with swedged tubing that's threaded, that will save you the weight of the ends of course. |
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Mar 11 2005, 12:39 PM
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#27
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Seeking round tuits Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,522 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Kentucky Member No.: 33 |
At the risk of impeding progress, I have to ask, "why bother with steel"? The inexpensive, lightweight, high quality aluminum bars fill a niche. Part of what enables you to get there is (correct me if I'm wrong) the use of fairly off-the-shelf components, easily worked material, no finishing or welding required, cheaper shipping, ....
It sounds like the steel bars are either going to be very heavy or require some fabrication, which is probably a big hit to the business case unless you can do it yourself. Sam and Lou already sell good steel bars, and I think Sam even sells several different weight/strength/cost tradeoff options. Lou also sells aluminum bars, but they are a bit more exotic and they are pricey. Or to put it another way, why are you pursuing the steel option - strength, cost, or ??? If you are trying to build a heavy duty version, what about just increasing the wall thickness or otherwise tweaking your aluminum version? |
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Mar 11 2005, 01:05 PM
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#28
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FRRAX Owner/Admin Group: Admin Posts: 15,432 Joined: 13-February 04 From: Ohio Member No.: 196 |
Mostly I wanted to experiment. I found a source who could supply me with what was generically called "Steel PHB Tubing". It didn't give specs, so I orderd a chunk to see what it was. What it is, is heavy. Now I know.
It was something I wanted to look into, so, I was looking into it. (And, it has now been thoroughly looked into and I'll very likely not be looking into it again, etc (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) ). Besides, I'm starting to figure out how to get an F-body to move towards 50/50 weight distribution. Just use a 300 lb PHB. (and move the battery.....) And, yes Jon, I'm truly 100% overweight and his is 50% lighter than mine. Damn engineers..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif) |
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Mar 14 2005, 04:08 AM
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#29
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Seeking round tuits Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,522 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Kentucky Member No.: 33 |
QUOTE (trackbird @ Mar 11 2005, 08:05 AM) Besides, I'm starting to figure out how to get an F-body to move towards 50/50 weight distribution. Just use a 300 lb PHB. (and move the battery.....) Well, there goes my weight-distributing hitch theory.... |
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Mar 14 2005, 05:29 AM
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#30
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FRRAX Owner/Admin Group: Admin Posts: 15,432 Joined: 13-February 04 From: Ohio Member No.: 196 |
QUOTE (sgarnett @ Mar 13 2005, 11:08 PM) QUOTE (trackbird @ Mar 11 2005, 08:05 AM) Besides, I'm starting to figure out how to get an F-body to move towards 50/50 weight distribution. Just use a 300 lb PHB. (and move the battery.....) Well, there goes my weight-distributing hitch theory.... Maybe we can tie it into the PHB..... |
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Mar 14 2005, 11:07 AM
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#31
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Seeking round tuits Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,522 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Kentucky Member No.: 33 |
QUOTE (trackbird @ Mar 14 2005, 12:29 AM) Maybe we can tie it into the PHB..... That's what I was trying to imply. |
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Mar 14 2005, 12:16 PM
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#32
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FRRAX Owner/Admin Group: Admin Posts: 15,432 Joined: 13-February 04 From: Ohio Member No.: 196 |
QUOTE (sgarnett @ Mar 14 2005, 06:07 AM) QUOTE (trackbird @ Mar 14 2005, 12:29 AM) Maybe we can tie it into the PHB..... That's what I was trying to imply. I thought so..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) |
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Mar 14 2005, 12:22 PM
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#33
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Seeking round tuits Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,522 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Kentucky Member No.: 33 |
QUOTE (trackbird @ Mar 14 2005, 07:16 AM) QUOTE (sgarnett @ Mar 14 2005, 06:07 AM) QUOTE (trackbird @ Mar 14 2005, 12:29 AM) Maybe we can tie it into the PHB..... That's what I was trying to imply. I thought so..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) Or, you could add a tie-down loop in the center of the PHR and resolve all those axle-or-chassis towing tech debates (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Mar 14 2005, 03:44 PM
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#34
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FRRAX Owner/Admin Group: Admin Posts: 15,432 Joined: 13-February 04 From: Ohio Member No.: 196 |
QUOTE (sgarnett @ Mar 14 2005, 07:22 AM) QUOTE (trackbird @ Mar 14 2005, 07:16 AM) QUOTE (sgarnett @ Mar 14 2005, 06:07 AM) QUOTE (trackbird @ Mar 14 2005, 12:29 AM) Maybe we can tie it into the PHB..... That's what I was trying to imply. I thought so..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) Or, you could add a tie-down loop in the center of the PHR and resolve all those axle-or-chassis towing tech debates (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Now that's good thinking.... |
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Mar 15 2005, 04:20 AM
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#35
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Experienced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,947 Joined: 23-December 03 From: Everett, WA Member No.: 16 |
Yeah, let's see...I just installed a damn trailer hitch which weighs nearly 40 lbs...a spoiler that's about 10...all my extra brackets add some weight.... I think if you make me up a set of LCA's & a PHB out of that stuff I'll end up with the weight distribution of a Porsche 911! Sweet! :leaving:
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Mar 15 2005, 05:18 AM
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#36
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FRRAX Owner/Admin Group: Admin Posts: 15,432 Joined: 13-February 04 From: Ohio Member No.: 196 |
You already have the brakes for it..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)
I do overkill better than anyone I know. |
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Mar 15 2005, 09:33 AM
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#37
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Experienced Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 1,947 Joined: 23-December 03 From: Everett, WA Member No.: 16 |
QUOTE (trackbird @ Mar 14 2005, 09:18 PM) You already have the brakes for it..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) Not quite. With that weight distribution I'd need big-ass rear brakes! |
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Mar 15 2005, 01:05 PM
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#38
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FRRAX Owner/Admin Group: Admin Posts: 15,432 Joined: 13-February 04 From: Ohio Member No.: 196 |
QUOTE (Jon A @ Mar 15 2005, 04:33 AM) QUOTE (trackbird @ Mar 14 2005, 09:18 PM) You already have the brakes for it..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) Not quite. With that weight distribution I'd need big-ass rear brakes! Just swap the front and rear brakes (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif) |
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Mar 15 2005, 03:47 PM
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#39
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Senior Member Group: Advanced Members Posts: 5,226 Joined: 24-December 03 From: Danville, CA, USA Member No.: 27 |
QUOTE (Jon A @ Mar 15 2005, 03:33 AM) QUOTE (trackbird @ Mar 14 2005, 09:18 PM) You already have the brakes for it..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) Not quite. With that weight distribution I'd need big-ass rear brakes! ...and all this time I thought it was BIG RED?!?!?!?! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) |
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