AutoX seems to bring less and less fun-factor 2 me, is it just me ??? Options

[Crazy Canuck]

I don't know if it's the right section,
but I thought I would share how I'm feeling.

Basically, I love AutoX and I find it a great way to enjoy the car, and so forth.
I'm also OK at it and kick ass on some fast cars in my category as well.

There are a few things that makes me not enjoy it as much.
1. it's very political... full of BS
2. seat time is very minimal
3. can't be much more competitive unless I trailor another set of wheels w/ Hoosier dady.
4. I'd like to use more than just 1-2 gear.

I'm just thinking on focusing more on driving and seat time.
Am I the only one that thinks this or going through this kind of feelings ?

[KeithO]

...that's how I ended up where I am.

First autocross. Got a little bored with the driving aspects but liked the people. Tried lapping days. Then a mix of autocross and lapping days. Then a mix of autocross, lapping days and time trials. Then finally, road racing with autocrosses as time permits. That is where I am today.

The reaility is that there are advantages and disadvantages to road racing versus autocross. Comparison:

Pros for Autocross:
Little or no prep work
Easy on the car (relatively)
Inexpensive (relatively)

Cons of Autocross:
Seat time
If you are serious, you are out almost every Sunday throughout the season
Mature ruleset encourages weenie protests. There is no other way.

Pros for Road Racing (or even lapping days):
Seat time
Real time comparison against other drivers since you share the track
Probably only racing one weekend a month. More Sundays at home

Cons of Road Racing:
Cost committment
Time committment
Distances to events

Once the "thrill is gone", I suppose you either need to completely change car types to get motivated again or you start the progression above. My $0.02 CDN

[sgarnett]

There are a few things that makes me not enjoy it as much.
1. it's very political... full of BS
2. seat time is very minimal
3. can't be much more competitive unless I trailor another set of wheels w/ Hoosier dady.
4. I'd like to use more than just 1-2 gear.

I do pull a tire trailer. All-in-all, I think it was a mistake to allow race tires in Stock and/or ESP, but they are here and we're stuck with them.

I simply stay out of the politics as much as possible.

If changing tires on autocross day is too much hassle, taking it up a notch with some sort of open tracking certainly isn't going to help. You'll have to throw a brake swap into the mix (at least at the front).

[Sam Strano]

If you aren't a very competitive person, or lack competition in your area, I can see getting bored. I don't get bored @ National events, but can be a little bit bored at local events unless someone shows up who can push me.

However, I get bored at lapping days too. Why? Because I'm not competing there either. 100 laps around a the same track can be tedious to me. One of the things I like about Solo2 is the different courses, and that you have to nail them in a just a few runs. Now some places reset the same courses all the time, and that'd suck because you don't get any challenge (and much like a racetrack it's the same all the time).

As for the lack of seat time. Sure you get less autoxing if you just go to an event here and there. I don't lack seat time. I just did a test session that was 3 full days (if I wanted), I only ran 2 of them. the days were 8 hours long, and I had to work 1 hour each day. Basically, 14 hours of course time available (you had to share with other cars too, but NOBODY ran close to continually) over two days, and a 3rd was available. Also travel around. The local SCCA region gives 5 runs for your $20, and the option of 5 more non-comp runs for an addition $10. That's 10 approx. 1-minute runs for $30.........

The value is all about what you like. I like going fast, but the sheer speed of the car isn't what does it for me. It's how fast I have to think and react. I lose interest more easily with tracking than autoxing because it's more different and offer competition. Road racing would be different than OTing, but you also shot your costs up even more than not-so-cheap lapping days. MHO. Both are fun, but I think the more you do anything, it will become less exciting to some degree, regardless of what it is.

[98_1LE]

I got bored with it. I like the people a whole lot, and will intermittently autox for the social aspect and to keep my knowledge reasonbly current, but spending 12 hours for 3-6 minutes of seat time is too much for me.

[robz71lm7]

Eugenio, that's exactly how I've been feeling lately. Esp # 2 It's just so hard to drag myself to an event and be gone all day for less than 6 minutes of seat time.

I'm currently setting the car up to tow a tire trailer. I'm hoping this will make it more comfortable and relieve some of the burden of having all the gear inside my car.

Our local region usually gives 5 runs or so or 4 runs at our larger 60 second site. There are usually to many people to allow for any funruns. It's not our region's fault either-IMO KYR is one of the most organized regions there is as far as local events go.

Recently they did a test and tune day limited to 40 people for $40. I wish we would have more autocrosses where attendence was limited so we could get more runs. To be honest I have more fun at my local F-body club's private autocross than an any other. I'd gladly pay 40 or 60 dollars to autocross if we limited entries and provided more runs.

I really want to do open tracking but I know I'll fall into another rut-no competition. Although I would like faster events where I could open the car up.

Recently we had an event that mistakenly allowed competitors to get up to 70 80 and almost 90. At the time hey got up to speed in a safe area. Afterwards a local complained and his comments were heard, BUT he then felt the need to go complain to the national office about our region. Our region just has too many drama queens all over that want to fight, whine, and bicker over petty things. I just want to get out and race. I have enough politics going on in the rest of my life.

[rmackintosh]

...your feelings are NOT uncommon...I know a TON of people who have made the progression Keith is talking of.....pretty much a "course of nature" kind of thing...

....now there are also people who, like Sam, live and thrive on the sport....but my guess is a large number either move on to some type of track events, or just get out altogether...it would be interesting to see turnover numbers if they were available...

But basically, do what is right FOR YOU!

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[Absolut Speed]

I certainly couldn't imagine running regularly with those regions who get 3-4 runs per event. We strive for 6, and usually get at least 5. That's enough to make it worth it for me. However, as mentioned, it'd be nice if I could run in stock without having to shell out hundreds in tires per season. I know that's its own argument though.

As far as the politics, at least at our region, it's pretty minimal. Being on the board probably helps keep it that way in my own perspective anyhow. Probably another function of being in a smaller region.

We're not the most competitive group in terms of talent, and we don't have many cars per class, but on the other hand, everyone pays more attention to the pax'd standings anyway.

I could see how in many other regions the cost-benefit ratio would get pretty crummy, but the risk-reward ratio can't be forgotten either. I love hpde's, but the potential cost/risk with open tracking versus autocross is never far from the front of my mind.

In the end, I'd probably concern myself less with auto-x and get more ramped up for hpde's if not for my region, including the 6 runs, the relative proximity, and the people. I've met some great people autocrossing and found myself fitting right in with the old regulars.

[mitchntx]

My AXing career didn't last but about 12 months (2 half seasons) I did get a nice "crystal" goblet, or something (not sure what it is) for a 4th place season finish.

Standing in the hot Texas sun for 2 or 3 hours while working the course and sitting in grid for another 2 or 3 hours waiting to get 90 seconds of seat time in no way off set any fun factor of "competition".

Now, before anyone jumps up and proclaims "get there early to get one of the "good" jobs, the coveted ones were a part of the politics. Couldn't get one if I wanted one.

So, the also rans stood out and shagged cones so the hot shoes could get in their runs and hoof it back to the Winnebego.

I tagged along to a BMW club's track day at a local road course and that was it. CYA AX ...

I OTed for several years, meeting a LOT of really great people who didn't have an agenda. Setting FTD for a single lap had it's merits, but stringing them back to back takes a lot of mental focus. I think it prepared me for the jump to CMC ...

I'm not in CMC to set the world on fire. I don't have the ego that drives that kind of mentality. But I do enjoy the lapping, the adrenaline and the group of people that make up the series.

[Crazy Canuck]

well... we get 4 runs... and we are usually around 100 ppl.
It's a very competitive niche and most of the ppl from here that goes to Topeka bring a trophee... so that should put some perspective on the competition level.
I like competition, but healthy competition... I don't mind not being on the top, as long as everyone is having fun.
I'm getting fed up of the bitching for every single little details, and some people take it WAY too seriously as if life depended on it.
Might be just me... but I rather associate myself with different group... but I like the people.
Having said that, for competitiveness, there is no way I can get better without some grip, like Hoosiers.
I still managed to be within 2 secs of the fastest guy in SM, while he had Hoosiers... and I was closer to the other guys on Hoosiers, but not faster.
Anyways... I've never been there to win championships, but more for the learning/fun factor of it.
and that is fading away.

Yesterday evening, it really struck me when a guy was talking about his 15 years of Solo2 experience, and bla-bla-bla... and then I was trying to put some perspective on things and where I see myself in this.
It just didn't fit.

As for lapping time, RoadRacing, it might be a bit more $... but I think it'll also be more rewarding.
Once has much better chances on improving by passing more times @ a given place and have WAY more lee-way (sp?) for trying different lines to see how one does.
In AutoX... well 4 runs aren't enough to try things out... my approach is get a clean run as fast as possible and hope you don't screw up from remembering the course.

I feel that I did learn a lot, don't get me wrong... things happen pretty fast, and I've been able to adapt myself well.
fwiw, yesterday, I was faster than all the 3 S2000 in place in race rubber, and 1 of the guys is really good... I used to not be able to be faster awhile back.

There was 1 z28 in place, who had a good line, but was 4-5 seconds slower than me on a 50 seconds track.
I know I have a bit more power and better brakes and suspension, but still... I'm not a newbie... and the learning/fun factor doesn't seem to be there anymore.

As for the RR/OT approach... I think I'll be OK with the A032-H tires... which once warm are pretty good... but then again, it will allow me to experiment way more stuff than I can now, and be able to learn even more.
Even in that sense, I'm not a newbie, since I done several schools and lapping days, and solo1 guys are asking me to have fun... the only thing I don't push much is when walls are involved... call me a chicken shit !
imho, it'll allow me to gather way much more data, and know where to improve the driver, and maybe the car.
As for the pads... I'll probably start by getting more aggressive than the present Portterfield RS4 pads I have... maybe the Ferrodo 2500... but I'll do some events like this to see exactly what I want.

anyways... sorry for the blabering... keep the comments/ideas coming... greatly appreciated.
And I'm happy to see I'm not alone in the boat.

[Crazy Canuck]

ironically, I tend to enjoy more helping people and being an instructor than actually doing the events.
If anything, I'd love to practice sections more often to really know what's the best line.

As for prep... I'd really just like to go to track on R-compounds, same tires used on the street... and same for pads.
Enjoy the day, take data and analyse the data (note not anal-ize)... and go from there.
Hopefully, I'll be able to start more interesting threads... become more knowledgeable, be able to share more information with a bigger bagage, and learn more since I'll have more to learn.

imho, the more you learn, the more you see there still is to learn... otherwise, ignorance is a bliss (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)

[sgarnett]

The hassle factor makes a big difference to me. My trailer is big enough to carry everything, so I don't have to load and unload the car each time. Most of the tools in the trailer are duplicates, so I can just leave the trailer loaded except for the tires.

There isn't a road course close enough to me to make open tracking an option, and National/Divisional/ProSolo autocrosses are also too far away and/or too big of a time commitment. Sooner or later, I'm going to have to quit this nonsense altogether.

For now, local autocross is what I can do, so that's what I do. I can even enjoy the 1st gear courses, as long as I get to use WOT a lot. First is a lot of fun with an LS1 (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[35th_Anniversary...]

I seriously thought about quitting last year (AutoX)...

95% of the people are friendly (except for one particular region which well I never really got along with people in that city to begin with and I'm sure the flag I hung in my trailer doesn't exactly help).

The reason why I felt like quitting was because I wasn't doing well in PAX, though I wasn't as motivated as I am now. Of course a FS Camaro in AS or ESP doesn't do too well in PAX - especially when you run on 4 year old Hoosiers. Now that I have the soft SS PAX and fresher tires (1 year old) I am doing much better to say the least. It's quite enjoyable when you beat everyone else, especially in a bigger region.

I used to not like the R tire allowed in stock, but I do like running on R's. And even the darned street tires nowadays are fast.

I like AutoX b/c it allows me to drive to the limit & beyond without worrying about trashing my car (hitting a wall). I'm honestly thinking about club racing or running modifieds.

[trackbird]

I'm currently setting the car up to tow a tire trailer. I'm hoping this will make it more comfortable and relieve some of the burden of having all the gear inside my car.

I just did that and highly recommend it to anyone. I can give you some insight into wiring the lights. I found a pretty good way to do it (I think). PM me and I'll give you my number when you get that far.

We used to get 8 runs, but it was down to 4 over the last few years. All day for four runs was no fun. This is why I've only run 7 events in my 2002 Camaro, I ran that in the first year in my GTI (when we got 8 runs). I never missed events that year. I'm going for the championship this year (so far) and am in 2nd place (by 3 points, behind an LT4 C4 Corvette on 315's) with a 1st and a 3rd place in my first two events. I thought I'd give it a shot. If I can stay "close" I'll keep going. If I fall to 8th place or something, I may get lazy towards the end of the season and skip some events. I hate to stand out there all day for 5 runs (the recent average).

For reference, I went to look at new trucks today at the Chevy dealer. I'm thinking of buying a new 2500HD or 3500 and getting a track car. Oddly, my cell phone just rang (as I typed this) to tell me of a mid 80's Camaro (unknown V8 and automatic) for sale about 3 miles from my house for under a grand. I'm really thinking that a truck/3rd gen is the way to go. I need a beater track car and a truck. I'd hate to wreck the 2002, but I kind of hate to get rid of it. If I buy a truck/track beater, I'll be CMC/AV8SS or HPDE very soon. Thus the dilemma contiunes.

[sgarnett]

I was sort of transitioning to driving the truck more and the Camaro less. However, with gas prices going up that was just taking too big of a bite out of the mod budget. The Camaro gets MUCH better gas mileage than the Dodge.

[patred]

I started autocrossing in '97 and did my first track event that year. Kept autocrossing and doing open tracking until '01 when I got my SCCA competition license. I figured I would "move up" to road racing and totally forget about autocrossing. Did a few roadraces until my raSEcaR sustained some heavy body damage (pretty much NOT my fault ... honest! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ). Since I didn't have a car to "race," I went back to autocrossing and recognized all the plusses that I overlooked before: 1) Great friends 2) low bucks (I don't want to EVER post on a public forum how much I spent on my road-race car ... and it was a back marker) 3) Great competition.

Don't get me wrong, I still LOVE the triple-digit speeds and mid-double-digits going through turns on a roadcourse. In fact, I'm probably going to drive at the HypeRFest next month at Summit Point. But I prefer the real competition that autocrossing offers.

If you enjoy the competition of autocross but feel your car is uncompetitive, find somebody with a "competitive" car who wants a co-driver. Share costs on tires, etc. Which brings up another "plus" of autocrossing -- people actually letting you "race" their cars. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Pat

[mitchntx]

I hear ... fear ... you Pat.

The damage factor had (has) me very worried.

But it's also the reason I chose CMC over SCCA or COMA ...

I saw first hand how those boys don't cotton to rubbin' ... it was ugly ...

[98_1LE]

So how is the paint swapping in CMC going so far? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)

I think ya'all have me convinced to stick with open track, open road, texas mile, and the occasional autox.

[robz71lm7]

Rubbin' is racin' (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Wish I could afford to build an AI car. That's what I originally bought my car with hopes of doing.

[ESPCamaro]

I 'might' consider moving up. But only if I'm at the top of my autox game.

I would really like to be able to compete with Sam, and Mark Jorgensen. I'm not there yet so there is no reason to give up now.

Honestly I wouldn't ever do anything but autoxing because of costs.

I have however been contemplating my autox future. And because of costs, not just initial but throughout each season, I've been contemplating a Mod car or a shifter Kart.

An FM F500 would be my first choice.