[KeithO]

I am about to go out and start removing parts off my car in anticipation of a rear swap between Christmas and New Years. I am going to do a little at a time due to time constraints. This morning I will remove the driveshaft, rear swaybar and possibly the shocks only.

First, the car is currently on 4 jackstands with the stands supporting the car on the frame rails as shown here:
http://www.installuniversity.com/install_u...rsity/index.htm

The front/rear weight bias paired with the jackstand locations always made me a little nervous on this car (actually all of my f-bodies). Has anyone done a rear end swap and if so, was there any risk or tendency for the car to rotate forward once all of the weight is removed from the rear? (Due to an accident that happened as a teenager to a friend of mind with jacks/jack stands - I was there - I am hyper-sensitive about getting under cars anyway. In fact, I didn't do anything with cars from the mid-1980's until 2000 after that.) Is there any risk here or am I being paraniod?

Second, I plan on removing things in the following order. This is only an educated guess.
Driveshaft
Sway bar
Shocks
Brake pieces/lines
Any residual wiring that might be there (ABS removed)
Torque arm
Panhard bar
Lower control arms

My logic with leaving the LCAs until last is that I plan to have 2 jackstands under the axle tubes and as I remove pieces, the LCA's will keep the rear centered and allow the rear to rotate in controlled manner into the jack stand cradles.

Is this the correct order to remove stuff? Is "installation the reverse of removal"? Any hints on making this an easier job?

Thanks

[sgarnett]

First, I think I'd remove the brake lines and wiring before the shocks. In other words, get all the fiddly stuff out of the way before you start removing mechanical stability. The shocks limit droop. However, while I have removed all the mechanical stuff from the axle before, I haven't done it all at one time so caveat emptor.

Second, you are NOT being paranoid. I've dropped a car (a big Chrysler) off jackstands too, though luckily I wasn't under it.

I don't think you are in danger of the car rotating forward per se. The most stable position I've found for the front jackstands is the arch in the Kmember between the caster and camber bolts. The arch is very strong and fits neatly into the cradle of the jackstands. I use a towel or piece of heater hose on the cradle. While that is probably a little behind the CG of the engine, the trasmission and a lot of car is still there to counterbalance it.

However, it's still easy to shift the weight a little while working and end up with one stand on only two legs, with light visible under the third (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I use wood blocks to limit how far the car can fall "just in case" . At the front, you can put them under the wheels. At the rear, place them under something as structural as possible while keeping them out of the way. The idea is just to preserve you if it falls, not necessarily prevent damage to the car.

[steve-d]

When I feel uneasy, I throw a couple of mounted tires under the car in the vacinity of where I'm working. A little akward, but it allows me to concentrate on the job at hand.

Every time I place the car on four stands, I throw a hip into at least two car corners to verify stability.

Steve

[GlennCMC70]

i just did this 2 times over the last month. i have in the past used only 2 jackstands to get just the rear up in the air.
the last swap was just 2 weeks ago was on the CMC car and i used 4 stands. once the weight of the diff as off the car, it wanted to tip over on the front stands. i had the front stands @ the forward end of the subframe connectors. thats not far enough. place the stands on the farthest forward part of the cars subframe. also, if you only have 4 jackstands, get more! place a 5th one under the K member in case it does tip forward.

do the brake lines first, then the wires (wires on a CMC car's diff??). remove the sway bar. driveshaft next. place a floor jack under the center of the diff. you will need to do this to get the diff to rotate in order to get the bind out of the torque arm and diff to get the torque arm off. once the T/A is off, the diff will want to rotate towards the rear. thats why you have the floor jack under it. now remove the LCA's. and place jack stands under each side to keep it balanced as you remove the shocks. lower the diff w/ the floor jack.

[KeithO]

Big, big, big oops. I removed the driveshaft, swaybar, springs. I then proceeded to remove the bottom shock nuts and got into the car. When I removed the driver's side top shock nut, the whole rear dropped. Oops. I got a jack under it and gave it a pump to lift and support and I don't even want to look.

I gotta take my kids to see their great-grandmother and I have to go.

I wish I had read this first. I didn't realize that the shocks helped the vertical position of the rear. Big oops.

[marka]

Howdy,

You're not the first person to do that...

Take a hard look at the brake line(s) to see if they got damaged (presumably they were what was holding the rear end up at that point... Possibly also some wiring harness, but it sounds like a CMC car can't use ABS, so maybe not (or maybe, and it won't matter... :-)

If you caught it quickly, its possible everything is fine. Or, alternatively, if your brake line(s) are coming up on a replacement time anyway, now would be a good time. :-)

Mark

(who also shakes a car side to side some to check that stands are secure, etc. before getting under it, and who will also use mounted wheels/tires as a safety catch for those times when I have concerns or if I'm at the track and don't have time for jackstands or whatever).

[marka]

Howdy,

Oh, also... don't ever depend on a jack to hold something up for all that long... Jacks leak down. If you're not going to get right back on it, stick something under the rear axle to hold it up that won't slowly lose height...

Mark

[sgarnett]

Sounds like some new brake lines might be going into the budget (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[trackbird]

Sounds like some new brake lines might be going into the budget (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

If not, they are now.

I'd change 'em..... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[KeithO]

Back from Grandma's.

Thanks for the advice and input, guys. I will follow your procedure from here, Glenn.

As it turns out, the parking brake cable took the load of the rear. If my car wasn't able to pass PA inspection, things would have been worse since the only thing left back there is the brake lines.

I now have the rear supported on either side via the LCA relocation brackets (yes, I am aware that these are not CMC legal but I used the stock holes and that makes them dead weight).

I also re-installed the front wheels. I plan on buying two new jackstands on my lunch hour tomorrow and firming up the front with them. This doesn't look hard but I have to admit that I believed that the torque arm played a bigger role in supporting the rear. Live and learn.

Anyone have any helpful hints for the re-install? Or are you really gonna say "installation is the reverse of removal" like the trusty Haynes manuals?

[slowTA]

If you haven't disconnected the brake lines yet then maybe you could pull the calipers and lines off of the axle, and hang the calipers out of the way. Unless you're due for a brake fluid flush anyway.

I would bolt the torque arm to the axle first and slide the two of them into place on a jack. I had good luck assembling the torque arm bushing first while somone was holding the axle steady on the jack, keep the bushing on the torque arm if its aftermarket. Then move to the LCAs, springs, and shocks leaving the plumbing and cables for last.

[KeithO]

If you haven't disconnected the brake lines yet then maybe you could pull the calipers and lines off of the axle, and hang the calipers out of the way. Unless you're due for a brake fluid flush anyway.

I would bolt the torque arm to the axle first and slide the two of them into place on a jack. I had good luck assembling the torque arm bushing first while somone was holding the axle steady on the jack, keep the bushing on the torque arm if its aftermarket. Then move to the LCAs, springs, and shocks leaving the plumbing and cables for last.

I have a new fill of Castrol SRF (+$70 per liter!) in there and am trying to avoid a drain/refill of the fluid. Bad planning on my part but I didn't know I was going to score this rear end. I had already planned on moving the calipers/lines out of the way to avoid a drain/fill of the system.

I'll also try to attached the the torque to the rear first and this morning, I'll be ordering a new bushing from Summit. It should get here by next week.

Glenn, did you replace the torque arm mount when you did this and if so, does your experience bias you towards a certain brand/material for the mount?

[z28jeff]

I thought you said your dad has a lift?
I'll be off the week between Christmas and New Years...In case you need an extra set of hands. I've never done a rear end swap on an f-body either, so I won't be much informational help, only mechanical help.

[GlennCMC70]

i just put a poly bushing in the T/A mount.

[v7guy]

I haven't personally seen a new torque arm mount. From my expierence the poly alternatives always reuse the "clamshell" metal housing that holds the bushing.

For re install it's probably easiest to start with the trq arm, the bushing side has always given me a bit of a fit going in. I usually start with that, after it's on the transmission, I put the LCAs on, jack up the rear, put on the PHR, and then the trq arm onto the pumpkin, sometimes it (the pumpkin)needs rotated a little before you can get the arm on it. After the bolts are through with the nuts on I put on the shocks/ springs, hook up the brakes and the wiring if applicable.

[KeithO]

I thought you said your dad has a lift?
I'll be off the week between Christmas and New Years...In case you need an extra set of hands. I've never done a rear end swap on an f-body either, so I won't be much informational help, only mechanical help.

I spent Saturday (with Dave S. and Jerry S.) at my dad's house installing a new cam on his car. The motor is still in pieces scattered around the garage and is on the lift. Besides, this isn't as hard as it sounds and the lift really wouldn't be an advantage here (and I don't have the time to do a one-shot) so I'll be doing this in my garage as time permits.

Glenn - Summit has a Hotchkis poly mount and Spohn has the Prothane... I guess either one will do.

V7Guy - is this what you are referring to?
http://www.spohn.net/category.cfm?categoryid=1081

Thanks for the additional tip... Ought to be fun.

[GlennCMC70]

prothane. i'm not a fan of Energy Suspension.

[CMC#5]

That torque arm is a PITA in my opinion. I've always installed the trans side first, located the axle using the LCAs, and then used the floor jack to lift and rotate the axle to the right place.

[v7guy]

Maybe what I wrote was slightly misinterpreted. I meant that it's easiest to start with the torque arm bushing first because it's a nightmare to try to do after everything else is together, starting with the bushing just seems to be the best way. Getting the torque arm on a piece that wants to rotate (the pumpkin) while the torque arm itself has play because of the mount, is somewhat less than pleasurable.

This post has been edited by v7guy: Dec 20 2005, 01:21 AM

[MikeP-99Z]

I'm about to do the same project this week...with six jackstands, big blocks of wood, mounted tires in strategic locations etc.