Upgrading garage wiring. Options

[rpoz-29]

I want to relocate my welder, and compressor to my detached garage. I had an electrician give me a price, and I just wanted to see if it seems reasonable. The garage is about 75 feet from the house. He's going to supply all the parts, (wire, outlets, junction boxes, breakers, etc. for a 60 amp service), for around $800.00. He said that the cost of wire has sky-rocketed,(and I don't doubt it with the prices I've seen for scrap metal), but does his price seem reasonable? Thanks!

[mitchntx]

Go price 2/0 wire, knowing you'll need 3 runs.

$800 sounds cheap to me with him supplying all the parts.

[trackbird]

I was thinking that seemed quite reasonable as well.

[25thRallySport]

Sounds extremely reasonable to me with current price of wire. Especially if he is supplying all the parts. You have a list of the parts he is going to be using? Because for that price id be interested and seeing what "he" plans on all installing.

[rpoz-29]

He's supplying the wire, the boxes and outlets for the compressor and welder, a small breaker box in the garage, and the box/tube(?) that routes the wire from under ground into the garage. I'm digging the trench. The lights/receptacles are going to be left alone. BTW, he said it COULD be as high as 1,000.00 depending on the cost of parts, especially the wire.

This post has been edited by rpoz-29: Nov 5 2006, 06:17 PM

[nape]

That's a steal if he's running rigid underground, if he's running PVC, it's still a deal.

Mitch, he could get away with #3 for a 60A service though. The conductors max continuous load should be spec'd to <=80% of max rating. #3 is rated at 75A, so it fits the bill.

Bill, if you ever plan to upgrade the service you might want to look at having him run bigger wire, but 60A for just large tools should be plenty since it sounds like the branch circuits are on a different service. I'd move ASAP if the quote is that low because wire prices change everyday.

This post has been edited by nape: Nov 5 2006, 08:45 PM

[Blainefab]

That's a good deal - I'd bump it up to a 100A service

[SS2win]

FWIW, I was quoted $2500 for a 100' run BEFORE the price of copper went up... granted running wire in my house would be complicated but daymn!

[rpoz-29]

I guess I better get this thing under way. I had no idea how much it would cost! Thanks for the replies, and I very well may upgrade to 100 amps.

[AndyB]

Go price 2/0 wire, knowing you'll need 3 runs.

$800 sounds cheap to me with him supplying all the parts.

Don't forget to pull a wire for the grounding if it's going into PVC (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)


$800 is a great price. You are saving a ton of money doing the trenching yourself, I quote $100 an hour if I have to trench. Like it's been said you might as well step it up to a 100amp service panel so you will have capacity for lights, a compressor, and other shop stuff.

That's a steal if he's running rigid underground, if he's running PVC, it's still a deal.

Mitch, he could get away with #3 for a 60A service though. The conductors max continuous load should be spec'd to <=80% of max rating. #3 is rated at 75A, so it fits the bill.

Bill, if you ever plan to upgrade the service you might want to look at having him run bigger wire, but 60A for just large tools should be plenty since it sounds like the branch circuits are on a different service. I'd move ASAP if the quote is that low because wire prices change everyday.

It will be PVC. I've never seen rigid underground in a residential setting (at least in California), always PVC as it's a lot cheaper and a lot easier to work with. Rigid is reserved for when the service entrance comes from overhead and you need the rigidity of the pipe to support the wire hang.


Right now the price of wire is dropping from the high of earlier this summer. We were paying $40 for a roll of 12/2 two years ago, this summer it was $108 for that same roll (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif) , right now it's back to about $80 a roll. Still expensive but as in gas it's a commodity that is in global demand right now.

Even at $1,000 it's still a good deal, sounds like you got a bid from someone who's not going to take you for a ride.

This post has been edited by AndyB: Nov 5 2006, 11:25 PM

[nape]

It will be PVC. I've never seen rigid underground in a residential setting (at least in California), always PVC as it's a lot cheaper and a lot easier to work with. Rigid is reserved for when the service entrance comes from overhead and you need the rigidity of the pipe to support the wire hang.

Right now the price of wire is dropping from the high of earlier this summer. We were paying $40 for a roll of 12/2 two years ago, this summer it was $108 for that same roll (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif) , right now it's back to about $80 a roll. Still expensive but as in gas it's a commodity that is in global demand right now.

Even at $1,000 it's still a good deal, sounds like you got a bid from someone who's not going to take you for a ride.

Yeah, I wasn't sure about what his code is like. I'm pretty sure, if it goes in the ground in the Chicago city limits it's got to be in pipe (hence rigid, EMT won't last), no plastic allowed other then special circumstances. I don't have a Chicago code book here though, just the National.

-IBEW Local 134 Electrician - Cook County, IL (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[mitchntx]

Mitch, he could get away with #3 for a 60A service though. The conductors max continuous load should be spec'd to <=80% of max rating. #3 is rated at 75A, so it fits the bill.

For a 75' run? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) You're the sparky! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[KeithO]

I just paid $650 for 100A service out to my detached garage, include all supplies and the trench... I knew it was a good deal but I guess I didn't know how good.

In fact, I was planning on installing my 6 new light fixtures yesterday but got lazy...

[Machine]

I am a licensed electrical contractor (now idle) and would charge more than $800 certainly.

[rpoz-29]

When I met this guy, he was buying my '84 F-150 4x4. I treated him right, selling it to him for a little less than he offered (I sold it to him for what had been my highest until then "offer"), and replaced the alternator after the deal had been made, when the engine seemed slow turning over. It wasn't until then I found out he was an electrician, and offered to help me out in the future. Maybe being a nice guy sometimes helps!

[nape]

Mitch, he could get away with #3 for a 60A service though. The conductors max continuous load should be spec'd to <=80% of max rating. #3 is rated at 75A, so it fits the bill.

For a 75' run? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) You're the sparky! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

From the 2005 National Code Book, #3 has a resistance of .245 ohms/1000'.

To figure voltage drop:

delta V = I * R
delta V = 60A * (.245 ohms/1000' * 150')
delta V = 2.2V

Maximum voltage drop is 5% (12V) of source voltage (240V).

While I was digging up the info, I ran across the table for services. I believe the ratings are higher since it is usually unlikely that everything in the panel will be on and at full draw.

Table 310.15((IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) (6) - Conductor Type and Sizes for 120/240-Volt, 3-Wire, Single-Phase Dwelling Services and Feeders. (Copper cable listed only)

4 - 100A
3 - 110A
2 - 125A
1 - 150A

1/0 - 175A
2/0 - 200A
3/0 - 225A
4/0 - 250A

250kcm - 300A
350kcm - 350A
400kcm - 400A

I guess C-C.com is wearing off on me about bringing the tech...

edit- to fix the calc.

This post has been edited by nape: Nov 7 2006, 02:21 AM

[mitchntx]

I guess C-C.com is wearing off on me about bringing the tech...

wearing? ... I'd say ruining ...

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[nape]

wearing? ... I'd say ruining ...

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

I've always been a geek, I think I finally found a place to fit in being an anal retentive geek (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)

[TOO Z MAXX]

I am also an electrician, looks like we have a few on here. That is a great deal he is giving you. Just run #2 wire and you will be fine. Agreed on the price of copper. It went through the roof this year, but it has come down some.

[z28tt]

That's an awesome deal... When I moved into my new (1960's) cape, the garage had a single receptacle. I ended up wiring a 50A sub panel, 14 receptacles (1st in each circuit a GFCI, protecting the next ones), 3 dual 8' HO fluorescent cold weather light fixtures, a ceiling fan, and 240V for the welder/plasma/lathe and 5hp air compressor. Doing all the work myself, I've probably got a good 20-40 hours into it, and the copper isn't cheap. It's not much more expensive to do larger service than you need right now, and will give room for future expansion. That being said, I've never tripped the 50A breaker with the plasma and air compressor going at the same time, 700W lights on, and 1500W halogen light tower (and computer/TV/stero). If you might have 3 phase tools in the future, you might want to have him wire an 240V extra circuit and disconnect for a phase converter. Also, if going for a big air compressor, a mag starter switch might be necessary. Think of possible future circuits, and leave enough room in the breaker box to accomodate them.