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> C5/6 Z06, 3rd gen RX7, 240z..., What's the best handling?
JustinID
post Apr 17 2009, 06:04 PM
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I'm not planning on switching cars in the immediate future, but I've been kind of day-dreaming/brainstorming over what might be a nice setup in the future. If anyone has experience, or even a good opinion, of which of these setups might be the most "enjoyable" (I know, very very subjective) then chime in.

Option 1 - 240z: I've heard these drive like they are on rails. I'd likely eventually set it up for BSP using a 2.8L engine out of a 280z. The biggest pro of this setup is cost... a chassis can be had for ~3k and I can hack at it all I like with out having to be upset about ruining the cars resale value. Smaller tires and less power mean less cost to race as well. If I ever got bored of it, I could always consider moving into EM (or wherever it might land) with something like an LS3 engine. 500+ HP in a 2400 pound car could be amusing (although maybe not as drivable as I'd like). I also really like the idea of this just being a project car.

Option 2 - RX7: These appear to have a nice mix of handling and power right out of the box. Probably not the most competitive for the stock and street prepared classes, but I'm not trying to win nationals, I'm just trying to have fun. If I wanted to get serious about racing, I could drop a 3 rotor engine into it and run SSM. I could also eventually go with an LS1, LS2, or LS3 and run in a prepared class (XP?). A lot of options here, but quite a bit more costly.

Option 3 - C5/C6 Z06: A lot of my thoughts on the other 2 cars started by thinking about what I could drop a Corvette engine into. It dawned on me that I could also just start with a Corvette. I've raced a C5 Z06 once but was still very inexperienced (not saying I'm all that experienced now either) so while I could tell it handled very very nicely, it's hard for me to draw comparisons. My TransAm was a hodge podge of mostly stock components or poorly chosen upgrades at the time, so of course the Vette was a huge jump up. But how does the handling of a Z06 compare to the RX7 and 240Z? This would be the most costly initial setup, but a lot less work to do to get it ready to race. The downside there is I wouldn't really see it as a project car, and that's part of what I'm looking for.

Are there any other well balanced, great handling cars I should think about? I'd prefer something a little bit older, at least a few years old, so that used setups are a good option.

This post has been edited by JustinID: Apr 17 2009, 07:10 PM
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roy
post Apr 17 2009, 06:50 PM
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You mean C5 Z06 right?
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JustinID
post Apr 17 2009, 07:11 PM
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QUOTE (roy @ Apr 17 2009, 12:50 PM) *
You mean C5 Z06 right?


Woops... yes, thanks. Corrected.
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roy
post Apr 18 2009, 05:50 AM
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Some other choices- E30 M3, Miata, AWD G60 Corrado, 911S 72-73 vintage,
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poSSum
post Apr 18 2009, 05:50 PM
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I have visions of an LS3 Solstice dancing in my head.

We're currently autoXing a NA Solstice ZOK and it handles really, really well.
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CMC #37
post Apr 18 2009, 11:36 PM
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QUOTE (poSSum @ Apr 18 2009, 12:50 PM) *
I have visions of an LS3 Solstice dancing in my head.

We're currently autoXing a NA Solstice ZOK and it handles really, really well.


Sweet! Too bad those Solstices used in "Set-up" went to the crusher!
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Jeff94TA
post Apr 18 2009, 11:37 PM
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I have a 1974 260Z that I am building from the ground up and stuffing in an LT1/T-56 combo. I've never even driven the car but yes they are supposed to handle very well, I sure hope so. Rust is the big thing on those cars so if you decide to go that route then inspect the floors, battery tray area, frame rails and rockers very carefully. Mine was clean for a Florida car but I still had to replace the floor pans and got into a huge mess with the front end from previous collision damage. I ended up sectioning the unibody just in front of the strut towers and replacing the frame rails. Everything more beefy than stock of course and did subframe connectors while I was at it. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) The message forum that is the authority on hopped up Z cars is HybridZ
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CMC #37
post Apr 18 2009, 11:41 PM
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QUOTE (Jeff94TA @ Apr 18 2009, 06:37 PM) *
I have a 1974 260Z that I am building from the ground up and stuffing in an LT1/T-56 combo. I've never even driven the car but yes they are supposed to handle very well, I sure hope so. Rust is the big thing on those cars so if you decide to go that route then inspect the floors, battery tray area, frame rails and rockers very carefully. Mine was clean for a Florida car but I still had to replace the floor pans and got into a huge mess with the front end from previous collision damage. I ended up sectioning the unibody just in front of the strut towers and replacing the frame rails. Everything more beefy than stock of course and did subframe connectors while I was at it. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) The message forum that is the authority on hopped up Z cars is HybridZ


I'd think corner weighting would be really good for a car like this since it will be much heavier than stock up front.
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JustinID
post Apr 18 2009, 11:48 PM
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The Solstice looks like it would have a lot of potential, but they haven't been out long enough. I'd like something older just so it's cheaper. Of course if you could squeeze an LS3 in it with out having to rework the firewall, you could run SSM with it. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

QUOTE (Jeff94TA @ Apr 18 2009, 05:37 PM) *
I have a 1974 260Z that I am building from the ground up and stuffing in an LT1/T-56 combo. I've never even driven the car but yes they are supposed to handle very well, I sure hope so. Rust is the big thing on those cars so if you decide to go that route then inspect the floors, battery tray area, frame rails and rockers very carefully. Mine was clean for a Florida car but I still had to replace the floor pans and got into a huge mess with the front end from previous collision damage. I ended up sectioning the unibody just in front of the strut towers and replacing the frame rails. Everything more beefy than stock of course and did subframe connectors while I was at it. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) The message forum that is the authority on hopped up Z cars is HybridZ


Thanks, Jeff. I hope that project comes along well for you. I'm definitely going to have to test drive some of these cars before I nail down which way I want to go. Someone in my region has a 240z with a "Chevy Small Block" in it, but I don't know which one. I'm hoping he comes out to some more events so I can talk with him and maybe get a ride along. It definitely seemed like he had more power than he could handle (just from watching him drive it) but I don't know how much of that was the car versus his skill level.

I've definitely read about rust being an issue on the Z cars. I'm fully expecting to learn to weld real well if I go that route. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Thanks for the link as well. I've been to that site a few times and it's very informative.

I'm going to have to think about a Miata as well. I know you can pick up a decently setup one for <$4-5K out here. I just don't think they have the potential to do a big engine swap. Massive turbos and Skyline engines are possibilities, but I doubt an LSx would fit. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

So many choices... I'm glad I'm not in a rush.
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Jeff94TA
post Apr 19 2009, 02:08 AM
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QUOTE (CMC #37 @ Apr 18 2009, 07:41 PM) *
I'd think corner weighting would be really good for a car like this since it will be much heavier than stock up front.


Yes it is a little heavier but actually not much and the kits currently available set the motor low and slammed against the firewall. The weight distribution is actually quite good compared to the original 6 cylinder setup but I do have a set ground control coilovers for it just in case. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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CMC #37
post Apr 19 2009, 03:03 AM
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QUOTE (Jeff94TA @ Apr 18 2009, 09:08 PM) *
QUOTE (CMC #37 @ Apr 18 2009, 07:41 PM) *
I'd think corner weighting would be really good for a car like this since it will be much heavier than stock up front.


Yes it is a little heavier but actually not much and the kits currently available set the motor low and slammed against the firewall. The weight distribution is actually quite good compared to the original 6 cylinder setup but I do have a set ground control coilovers for it just in case. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


Cool! I met a couple who had a combo like this in their 240Z and they did have a it corner-weighted. Theirs was a nice RR set-up.
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Mojave
post Apr 19 2009, 03:33 AM
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LSx powered FD is the winner among this bunch, particularly if the swap kit doesn't move the steering rack (some kits move the rack which can cause significant bumpsteer issues).
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sgarnett
post Apr 19 2009, 04:17 PM
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Actually, there are several LSx swap kits available for Miatas. I've also seen an iron-block 350 SBC conversion, and I know 5.0 conversions have been done, but an aluminum block LS1/6 seems a better choice.
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roostmeyer
post Apr 20 2009, 02:04 AM
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http://www.bossfrog.biz/Miata_V8_Swap.html

Oh I want, I want...

As much as I love my under powered daily driver, my vote would be for an ASP C5 Z06. Not cheap, but good examples are available now for under 20k. Good power in stock form, in ASP form should be even better. Between going through the suspension and bolt on engine stuff I'd imagine you'd have enough to work to keep you busy for a year or so easily and you'd have the option of doing it peice meal and driving the car while your woking on it. My biggest problem with one would be avoiding the temptation to throw a cam in and make another 60hp.
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Todd
post Apr 20 2009, 02:32 PM
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an LS1 definitely fits in a miata...its just about how much you want it there. I have a buddy local that built an LS1 T56 car with a Ford 8.8 rear. It was insanely fast but was really hard to handle at autox. He used an 02 Z06 motor with ported heads and a big cam. ~460 HP at the wheels I have another buddy with a turbo-ed miata w/1.8 swap that makes about ~260 at the wheels. That is a much easier car to handle at autox. The same guy also used to have an 90 RX7 w/ a LT1/T56 swap. That car was difficult to handle at autox but much of that might have been setup since it was sprung WAY too stiff with 18" rims and 30 series tires. I came very close to buying the car when he sold it...but didn't want the cost to make it what I wanted.
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rhit_rs
post Apr 21 2009, 07:39 AM
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Well, if you really want a project car you could build a kit car. Factory 5 has a racing class devoted to it. You can build one of those for about the price of a C5 Z06 (quite possibly less) and it would be a good time. It won't handle quite as well as the C5, but more project. You could also look at a C4 - great suspension and easily upgradeable power, plus you can find ones in great shape for <$10k. I'll also vouch for the solstice. They handle great. My mother bought a base model N/A with a limited slip last year for track days and loves it. Her only complaint: she got passed by stockish miatas. Our solution: m62 with 8.5lbs of boost. It's a good time. You can also pick up used GXPs for pretty cheap. A buddy of mine at school just bought one about a month ago for $16k. GM has a stage II upgrade for them that bumps the torque waaay up. One down side is that it's hard to fit a roll bar in them under the convertible top (but it can be done).
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sgarnett
post Apr 21 2009, 10:05 AM
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The rollbar is an issue with Miatas too. There are plenty of choices that fit under the convertible top, but they are also going to be under the helmet for many/most drivers. A local guy sliced his seat cushion foam in half to get his helmet under the bar, but that doesn't seem like a great idea. Obviously there are bars that are tall enough, at least with a racing seat, and still fit under a hard top for Spec Miata, but they may not be a great choice if you want to keep the convertible top.
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Todd
post Apr 21 2009, 01:18 PM
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QUOTE (sgarnett @ Apr 21 2009, 06:05 AM) *
The rollbar is an issue with Miatas too. There are plenty of choices that fit under the convertible top, but they are also going to be under the helmet for many/most drivers. A local guy sliced his seat cushion foam in half to get his helmet under the bar, but that doesn't seem like a great idea. Obviously there are bars that are tall enough, at least with a racing seat, and still fit under a hard top for Spec Miata, but they may not be a great choice if you want to keep the convertible top.


we had that issue with our lemons car. the cage was designed to go under a hard top. we removed the stock seat and mounted a race seat. I'll admit the seat wasn't the lowest it could have been but at 5'9", I could rest my head on the bar in turns. The taller guys were at/over the top of the bar. The seat would have only gone down another inch or so though...
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Mericet
post Apr 22 2009, 01:13 AM
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Biased opinion, but you might want to take a look at 944's as well.
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Paul Huryk
post Apr 22 2009, 12:05 PM
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QUOTE (JustinID @ Apr 17 2009, 01:04 PM) *
I'm not planning on switching cars in the immediate future, but I've been kind of day-dreaming/brainstorming over what might be a nice setup in the future. If anyone has experience, or even a good opinion, of which of these setups might be the most "enjoyable" (I know, very very subjective) then chime in.

Option 1 - 240z: I've heard these drive like they are on rails. I'd likely eventually set it up for BSP using a 2.8L engine out of a 280z. The biggest pro of this setup is cost... a chassis can be had for ~3k and I can hack at it all I like with out having to be upset about ruining the cars resale value. Smaller tires and less power mean less cost to race as well. If I ever got bored of it, I could always consider moving into EM (or wherever it might land) with something like an LS3 engine. 500+ HP in a 2400 pound car could be amusing (although maybe not as drivable as I'd like). I also really like the idea of this just being a project car.

Option 2 - RX7: These appear to have a nice mix of handling and power right out of the box. Probably not the most competitive for the stock and street prepared classes, but I'm not trying to win nationals, I'm just trying to have fun. If I wanted to get serious about racing, I could drop a 3 rotor engine into it and run SSM. I could also eventually go with an LS1, LS2, or LS3 and run in a prepared class (XP?). A lot of options here, but quite a bit more costly.

Option 3 - C5/C6 Z06: A lot of my thoughts on the other 2 cars started by thinking about what I could drop a Corvette engine into. It dawned on me that I could also just start with a Corvette. I've raced a C5 Z06 once but was still very inexperienced (not saying I'm all that experienced now either) so while I could tell it handled very very nicely, it's hard for me to draw comparisons. My TransAm was a hodge podge of mostly stock components or poorly chosen upgrades at the time, so of course the Vette was a huge jump up. But how does the handling of a Z06 compare to the RX7 and 240Z? This would be the most costly initial setup, but a lot less work to do to get it ready to race. The downside there is I wouldn't really see it as a project car, and that's part of what I'm looking for.

Are there any other well balanced, great handling cars I should think about? I'd prefer something a little bit older, at least a few years old, so that used setups are a good option.


I would think that the 240z and definitely the Miata would have a tire size disadvantage compared to the RX7 and C5/C6 - unless you are using a wide body kit.
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