The new to me 1SC.... Options

[Steve91T]

I'll wait to make the order until I get the head off. Headed to the garage now.

[Ojustracing]

Steve it should. Just like the picture you posted. But the valve springs keep the lifter in contact cam. If things are loose. It may have already galled the cam or a worn lobe.. Hopefully its just a Lifter!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve yes wait to hit the order button!!!!!

This post has been edited by Ojustracing: Jul 29 2016, 05:10 PM

[Steve91T]

Steve it should. Just like the picture you posted. But the valve springs keep the lifter in contact cam. If things are loose. It may have already galled the cam or a worn lobe.. Hopefully its just a Lifter!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve yes wait to hit the order button!!!!!

Will I be able to see enough of the lobe to see if it's damaged or not?

[Ojustracing]

Steve it should. Just like the picture you posted. But the valve springs keep the lifter in contact cam. If things are loose. It may have already galled the cam or a worn lobe.. Hopefully its just a Lifter!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve yes wait to hit the order button!!!!!

Will I be able to see enough of the lobe to see if it's damaged or not?

Yes you should be able.. the lobe should look the same as others. Look at the lifter roller very good!!!!!

Check this link for some photos at the beginning..
LS1 tech

This post has been edited by Ojustracing: Jul 29 2016, 05:22 PM

[Steve91T]

Steve it should. Just like the picture you posted. But the valve springs keep the lifter in contact cam. If things are loose. It may have already galled the cam or a worn lobe.. Hopefully its just a Lifter!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve yes wait to hit the order button!!!!!

Will I be able to see enough of the lobe to see if it's damaged or not?

Yes you should be able.. the lobe should look the same as others. Look at the lifter roller very good!!!!!

Check this link for some photos at the beginning..
LS1 tech

Thank you.

[JimMueller]

The lifter trays (12595365) are inexpensive and are considered something to always replace when swapping lifters, also.

I was just coming in to add that same thing. You have to replace them with the head off. This shouldn't be an issue since you're replacing the lifter anyway.

I added 4 of them from summit. So lifters, trays, head bolts and head gaskets. Anything else I'm missing?

Some other parts off the top of my head you may need, depending upon what you need to tear down to find all the damage. I think these numbers are correct, you should verify.

lifters 12499225 (per engine)
lifter trays 12595365 (need two per head)
head gaskets 12498544 (per head)
head bolts 12498545 (not re-usable; per head)
water pump gaskets 12630223 (per head)
front cover seal 12585673 (if you need to pull the front cover)
front cover gasket 12633904 (if you need to pull the front cover)
crankshaft bolt 12557840 (not re-usable; if you need to pull the front cover)
exhaust gasket 12617944
assembly lube (if you have to pull the cam and it'll sit awhile between cam installation and first firing, else use oil)

If you find that the cam is not re-usable, then you have these common methods to remove it. You can look on LS1Tech for details and experiences.

1) buy wooden or aluminum dowels to slide into the front of the DS head to keep the lifters from potentially falling into the oil pan when you pull the cam out
2) Buy a set of 8 long pen magnets, and insert them into the pushrod hole and touch the magnetic end to the lifter and bend the clip on the opposite end to keep it from falling in.
3) Russian roulette. Some people get lucky and the trays hold the lifters in while you pull out the old and re-install the new cam. If you're unlucky, you may need to pull the oil pan to remove the dropped lifters.
4) Remove the DS head, and since you're already there put in the new lifters at the same time.

I usually find the best pricing on Amazon, gmperformancemotor.com, or rockauto.com (cross-referencing to the ACDelco part). I'm also partial to soaking the hydraulic lifters over night in oil before I install them; shouldn't be needed with hydraulic but it's for my personal peace of mind. Make sure you follow the properly head bolt and (if necessary) crank bolt tightening procedures.

[CrashTestDummy]

Isn't it a popular mod to get ARP head bolts so you don't have to mess with those stupid TTY headbolts? Especially since it looks like a repeat of this job is in this car's future?

[Steve91T]

Isn't it a popular mod to get ARP head bolts so you don't have to mess with those stupid TTY headbolts? Especially since it looks like a repeat of this job is in this car's future?

Yes. But it's only $25 for a set of bolts for one head compared to $200 for the ARP set. I just want to get the car running and driving for a little moneys as possible to see what I have.

[Steve91T]

Look what I did today!!! Looks like the cam is coming out. #6 lifter spins freely, moves up and down from the cam to the "spot". That'd where it gets stuck. It will absolutely not come out. It's probably mushroomed. #7 looks bad also. Really pitted. So the cam has to come out. The good news is the lifter will probably drop down once the cam is out and then I can get it out that way. Hopefully the bore isn't messed up.


(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v199/Steve91T/Camaro/AC03807D-7F54-4F60-AD82-74FDFC76D878.jpg)

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v199/Steve91T/Camaro/94F40AF1-B409-4457-A364-FE532C978D83.jpg)

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v199/Steve91T/Camaro/6DF9B2AF-99B7-4E66-BBE9-8B3B51DA69CB.jpg)

One of the good lifters
(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v199/Steve91T/Camaro/67AC71D9-9E6F-418F-9F35-379EEB2F0B2F.jpg)

#7
(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v199/Steve91T/Camaro/BF22CC86-65C5-42CC-A2B0-511B3EDD49CB.jpg)

This post has been edited by Steve91T: Jul 30 2016, 03:22 AM

[JimMueller]

Yuk, graphite head gaskets (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) The replacement gaskets will be MLS. You can use something like a razor blade, sharp wood chisel, or sharp plastic scraper to get that residue off. I've read that Permatex Gasket Remover also works, if you can find it. Just be careful you don't cut into the aluminum and also get the surfaces clean enough.

If you can't remove the #6 lifter from the top of the block, and you pull the cam... if the lifter falls it should end up in the oil pan

http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-i...rface-need.html

http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-i...ff-pistons.html

Seems like a lot of deposits on the valves, might want to look into whether that is normal for the mileage or indicates additional maintenance is suggested (worn guides, bad seals, etc.)

[Steve91T]

I talked to my dad last night and I told him about the lifter. He wasn't sure if he wanted the car, but he was definitely interested. The plan was to get the car on the road and then go from there. If he decided to pass, I'd sell the car for a profit. So that's why I was initially going to fix the engine for as little possible.

Now that the lifter is stuck, I need to figure out what direction I'm going to go. Hence the call to my dad.

So he's really interested and sounds excited about it. He's going to call me back later today and we'll talk more and I'd like to have some numbers for him.

This car would be a weekend cruiser/once in a while HPDE car. He's a good driver, but a little timid on the track. he enjoys driving at 7/10ths, nothing more. Since this car already has all the suspension goodies already, we just need to find a good balance with power. My gut feeling is to go with LT headers, an LS6 intake manifold and a cam similar to an LS6 cam. He likes a lumpy idle, but doesn't want any drivability issues. So something slightly more aggressive to the LS6 cam will probably be perfect. Add a tune and I think he'd be just north of 380 and it'll make power to 6500.

It's already got an LS7 clutch and light weight flywheel and the transmission still shifts fine. It's also got pro 5.0 shifter that feels great.

I'm thinking about dopping the engine. It would make replacing the cam easier and then it'd allow me to add oil pan baffles to prevent starvation on the track.

I'm guessing about $2k for all of that.

I'd love to hear what you guys think.

[JimMueller]

If the lifter bore is damaged, I'd probably take it to a reputable local machine shop to see if they can hone it and/or repair it. Whether or not they can do that safely with the remainder of the rotating assembly installed I do not know. If they can't, then someone will need to disassemble the short block prior to the repair. If it's already at the machine shop it'd be easy for them to perform other cleanup tasks as well, as your funds allow. If they cannot repair the bore, then you'd at least be looking at another engine case or short block. You'd have to move your rotating assembly to the new case if it was bare. Weigh the cost of repairing vs. replacing the block.

Once the block is in order, you can re-use the current heads. The machine shop would be able to disassemble/clean/reassemble with old or new parts and also prepare the head gasket surface if desired.
Some sample numbers I threw together:

lifters 12499225 ($100,per engine)
lifter trays 12595365 (4@$6, need two per head)
head gaskets 12498544 (2@$30, per head)
head bolts 12498545 (2@$24, not re-usable; per head)
water pump gaskets 12630223 (2@$4, per head)
front cover seal 12585673 ($16,if you need to pull the front cover)
front cover gasket 12633904 ($16, if you need to pull the front cover)
crankshaft bolt 12557840 ($4, not re-usable; if you need to pull the front cover)
exhaust gasket 12617944 (2@$11, probably re-usable)

The above new is $300, plus any tax & shipping.

LS6 intake manifold: (PN 88894339, casting # 12573572) No longer sold, need to find used. Expect to pay $300-$400. You'll need to modify the ribbing on the bottom of the intake to be compatible with the LS1 coolant crossover lines, or buy the LS6 coolant crossover lines & plugs.
Cam: If new, expect to pay at least $400. I'd suggest contacting Patrick Guerra, Kip @ CamMotion, or Brian Tooley for your application
LT Headers: If new, expect to pay $300-$1200 just for the primaries, plus whatever you use to mate the primaries to your tail pipes.
Pushrods: You should budget to buy new pushrods for the different cam base circle, unless you want to trust the seller to sell you a cam which definitely works with your existing pushrods. If people won't be sustaining high RPM for a long time (like drifting), 5/16" thickness would probably get you by. In general, you want the thickest diameter, thickest sidewall which has adequate clearance in the pushrod guide. Anywhere from $100-$300 for a set.
Valvesprings: You may need to budget for these depending upon the cam spec'ed.

Going with the lower end costs, that's $1500 above, plus valve springs, the y-pipe/x-pipe/exhaust, plus the cost of repairing/replacing the block, etc. You'll save some if you're able to buy used, and you may be able to recoup some of your costs by selling the old good parts.

After that, it just depends on what else you want to inspect and your budget. Expect to pay $400-$500 for a reputable in-person tune. I don't remember if a new oil pan gasket is recommended when you drop the pan. You might want to consider a better timing chain ($150)... other misc gaskets, lots of knick knack things, only your budget is the restriction.

This post has been edited by JimMueller: Jul 30 2016, 06:34 PM

[CrashTestDummy]

That's about what a guy on the New Caprice forum was quoted to do a DOD-delete kit install, for the parts alone. The labor was an extra $1300-$1400, depending on the shop he talked to. He's essentially doing what you are, pulling heads, replacing the cam, lifters, and cam-compatible valvetrain. Just a datapoint here.

[Steve91T]

If the lifter bore is damaged, I'd probably take it to a reputable local machine shop to see if they can hone it and/or repair it. Whether or not they can do that safely with the remainder of the rotating assembly installed I do not know. If they can't, then someone will need to disassemble the short block prior to the repair. If it's already at the machine shop it'd be easy for them to perform other cleanup tasks as well, as your funds allow. If they cannot repair the bore, then you'd at least be looking at another engine case or short block. You'd have to move your rotating assembly to the new case if it was bare. Weigh the cost of repairing vs. replacing the block.

Once the block is in order, you can re-use the current heads. The machine shop would be able to disassemble/clean/reassemble with old or new parts and also prepare the head gasket surface if desired.
Some sample numbers I threw together:

lifters 12499225 ($100,per engine)
lifter trays 12595365 (4@$6, need two per head)
head gaskets 12498544 (2@$30, per head)
head bolts 12498545 (2@$24, not re-usable; per head)
water pump gaskets 12630223 (2@$4, per head)
front cover seal 12585673 ($16,if you need to pull the front cover)
front cover gasket 12633904 ($16, if you need to pull the front cover)
crankshaft bolt 12557840 ($4, not re-usable; if you need to pull the front cover)
exhaust gasket 12617944 (2@$11, probably re-usable)

The above new is $300, plus any tax & shipping.

LS6 intake manifold: (PN 88894339, casting # 12573572) No longer sold, need to find used. Expect to pay $300-$400. You'll need to modify the ribbing on the bottom of the intake to be compatible with the LS1 coolant crossover lines, or buy the LS6 coolant crossover lines & plugs.
Cam: If new, expect to pay at least $400. I'd suggest contacting Patrick Guerra, Kip @ CamMotion, or Brian Tooley for your application
LT Headers: If new, expect to pay $300-$1200 just for the primaries, plus whatever you use to mate the primaries to your tail pipes.
Pushrods: You should budget to buy new pushrods for the different cam base circle, unless you want to trust the seller to sell you a cam which definitely works with your existing pushrods. If people won't be sustaining high RPM for a long time (like drifting), 5/16" thickness would probably get you by. In general, you want the thickest diameter, thickest sidewall which has adequate clearance in the pushrod guide. Anywhere from $100-$300 for a set.
Valvesprings: You may need to budget for these depending upon the cam spec'ed.

Going with the lower end costs, that's $1500 above, plus valve springs, the y-pipe/x-pipe/exhaust, plus the cost of repairing/replacing the block, etc. You'll save some if you're able to buy used, and you may be able to recoup some of your costs by selling the old good parts.

After that, it just depends on what else you want to inspect and your budget. Expect to pay $400-$500 for a reputable in-person tune. I don't remember if a new oil pan gasket is recommended when you drop the pan. You might want to consider a better timing chain ($150)... other misc gaskets, lots of knick knack things, only your budget is the restriction.

Thanks Jim! Yeah that's about what I came up with. Thanks for taking the time to post that. It really helps to have it all in one place. The one thing I want to say is I can't imagine the lifter bore is damaged. The lifter still moves freely, it just mushroomed so it won't come out through the top. What do you think caused the pitting on lucky number 7?

I still feel this engine is relatively healthy and has a lot of life left in it. It'd be so easy to drop this engine off at a local engine shop with a wad of cash strapped to it and pick it up a few weeks later. But I'd rather just fix what's broke and drive it.

[trackbird]

I have a set of .010 rod bearings if you wind up needing them (not saying you're turning the crank, but if you do....). They are sealed in the package from the trailblazer SS engine we rebuilt.

[Ojustracing]

If the lifter bore is damaged, I'd probably take it to a reputable local machine shop to see if they can hone it and/or repair it. Whether or not they can do that safely with the remainder of the rotating assembly installed I do not know. If they can't, then someone will need to disassemble the short block prior to the repair. If it's already at the machine shop it'd be easy for them to perform other cleanup tasks as well, as your funds allow. If they cannot repair the bore, then you'd at least be looking at another engine case or short block. You'd have to move your rotating assembly to the new case if it was bare. Weigh the cost of repairing vs. replacing the block.

Once the block is in order, you can re-use the current heads. The machine shop would be able to disassemble/clean/reassemble with old or new parts and also prepare the head gasket surface if desired.
Some sample numbers I threw together:

lifters 12499225 ($100,per engine)
lifter trays 12595365 (4@$6, need two per head)
head gaskets 12498544 (2@$30, per head)
head bolts 12498545 (2@$24, not re-usable; per head)
water pump gaskets 12630223 (2@$4, per head)
front cover seal 12585673 ($16,if you need to pull the front cover)
front cover gasket 12633904 ($16, if you need to pull the front cover)
crankshaft bolt 12557840 ($4, not re-usable; if you need to pull the front cover)
exhaust gasket 12617944 (2@$11, probably re-usable)

The above new is $300, plus any tax & shipping.

LS6 intake manifold: (PN 88894339, casting # 12573572) No longer sold, need to find used. Expect to pay $300-$400. You'll need to modify the ribbing on the bottom of the intake to be compatible with the LS1 coolant crossover lines, or buy the LS6 coolant crossover lines & plugs.
Cam: If new, expect to pay at least $400. I'd suggest contacting Patrick Guerra, Kip @ CamMotion, or Brian Tooley for your application
LT Headers: If new, expect to pay $300-$1200 just for the primaries, plus whatever you use to mate the primaries to your tail pipes.
Pushrods: You should budget to buy new pushrods for the different cam base circle, unless you want to trust the seller to sell you a cam which definitely works with your existing pushrods. If people won't be sustaining high RPM for a long time (like drifting), 5/16" thickness would probably get you by. In general, you want the thickest diameter, thickest sidewall which has adequate clearance in the pushrod guide. Anywhere from $100-$300 for a set.
Valvesprings: You may need to budget for these depending upon the cam spec'ed.

Going with the lower end costs, that's $1500 above, plus valve springs, the y-pipe/x-pipe/exhaust, plus the cost of repairing/replacing the block, etc. You'll save some if you're able to buy used, and you may be able to recoup some of your costs by selling the old good parts.

After that, it just depends on what else you want to inspect and your budget. Expect to pay $400-$500 for a reputable in-person tune. I don't remember if a new oil pan gasket is recommended when you drop the pan. You might want to consider a better timing chain ($150)... other misc gaskets, lots of knick knack things, only your budget is the restriction.

Thanks Jim! Yeah that's about what I came up with. Thanks for taking the time to post that. It really helps to have it all in one place. The one thing I want to say is I can't imagine the lifter bore is damaged. The lifter still moves freely, it just mushroomed so it won't come out through the top. What do you think caused the pitting on lucky number 7?

I still feel this engine is relatively healthy and has a lot of life left in it. It'd be so easy to drop this engine off at a local engine shop with a wad of cash strapped to it and pick it up a few weeks later. But I'd rather just fix what's broke and drive it.

Steve Pitting is kinda normal on a bunch of these. Like the camshaft was not hardened properly. There is a GM TSB going back to 99+ and this issue. Don't forget a Oil pump and o-ring while your at it.

[JimMueller]

I see you cross-posted in LS1Tech. I've read that the pitting is usually related to the heat treatment of the metal. Here are a few links of use:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-i...-bad-build.html
http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-in...deo-inside.html
http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-i...one-usable.html

This might be that TSB:

http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/topic/7012...rs/#entry516835

How many miles on the current filter & oil? I would absolutely drain the oil and carefully inspect the oil for glitter or flakes. Then cut the oil filter open, and carefully remove the filter media. Inspect both the media and the remaining oil in the filter for the same. If you find any glitter or flakes, I'd find the source before re-assembly. If you don't see any, your bottom end is probably good but I've always went with a new oil pump on a rebuild.

This post has been edited by JimMueller: Jul 30 2016, 11:26 PM

[JimMueller]

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c5-par...project-c5.html

[Steve91T]

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c5-par...project-c5.html

Oh wow that's interesting...

[Steve91T]

That might be a good deal. I'm going to get more information from him. Thanks did finding that.