Discount Lexan Options

[StanIROCZ]

I got a line on some Lexan through a bankruptcy auction here in Detroit.

It’s the good stuff, Lexan MR10 (scratch resistant coating, UV resistant etc etc):

Lexan* MR10 sheets improved Margard® II coating resists abrasion and defies graffiti to ensure a “like-new” appearance for many years to come. The next generation of UV absorbers, Margard® coating now incorporates enhanced UV absorbers to protect the sheet from the debilitating effects of sunlight. As a result, Lexan* MR10 is accompanied by extended warranties that are your assurance of long term product performance; 10 yr. prorated replacement warranty against breakage, yellowing, abrasion, loss of light transmission and coating delamination.^ 15 year warranty against yellowing and light transmission for qualified dual glazed systems.** Virtually unbreakable. High light transmission common to all Lexan* sheet products. Easily maintained without marring, hazing, or yellowing. Compiles with major model building codes. Dade county approved material.† Recommended by GE for use in residential vertical glazing applications. The ideal glazing for high traffic and high impact areas such as: educational institutions, psychiatric hospitals, storefronts and windows, low-level physical attack areas, entrance doors and patios, hurricane protection, railings and sound barriers. Will withstand -40° to 180° continuous and 220°F short term with no load. ^ Consult warranty for complete details. ** Combining laminated glass and LEXAN* SL-4855 sheet used in accordance with the following guidelines: Double-channeled sash systems; EPDM gasketing throughout; proper venting; adequate air space and rabbet depth (for thermal movement); supplied by a sash OEM with a compatible double-channeled sash for LEXAN* sheet. Consult warranty for complete details. † Data on file at Sabic Innovative Plastics.

I'm getting it in 6x8 sheets, 3/16" thick only. It needs to be cut down to be shipped. So far it looks like UPS won't ship a 48x72 because it’s too big, but it will ship 44x72. Two of these are enough to do a windshield and hatch. A 1/3 sheet could do a thirdgen windshield (32x65).

I plugged in a couple random US zip codes in at UPS.com to get an idea of how much shipping is going to be. Obviously size is the biggest factor and not weight. 4 half sheets to California is $150. 2 half sheets to southern Illinois is $100. Just to give you an idea. If you want how much it is to your door I'll be shipping from 48310.

I'm not sure if this stuff is cheaper elsewhere but here: http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.a...oduct%5Fid=9948 is showing it as almost $500 for a smaller sheet than what I am getting.

VFN Fiberglass charges $359 for a MR10 thirdgen windshield and $285 for a 4th gen http://www.vfnfiberglass.com/site.htm

I'm thinking I could do half sheets for $120/ea + shipping, and that price could change. If you have friends that local to you and are interested, it would make sense to combine ship since an extra sheet doesn't cost much more to ship (in some cases it looks like it is free).

Let me know if you're interested and we'll go from there.

This post has been edited by StanIROCZ: Sep 10 2009, 03:55 AM

[nape]

I'm interested in at least a half sheet for a windshield.

Any ideas on how to mold the hatch and have it come out with a decently close to stock shape?

[StanIROCZ]

I'm interested in at least a half sheet for a windshield.

Any ideas on how to mold the hatch and have it come out with a decently close to stock shape?

I'm going to try to use the factory hatch as a mold, fold the lexan over the sides, and put a heat gun on it. Use some clamps to help hold it in place.

If it doesn't come out perfect screws or or quarter turn fasteners along the quarters and up on the roof should do the rest. Use strays from the hinges down/back to support the middle.

I'm hoping that works. I haven't worked with the stuff much so I don't know for sure. If you want me to test it out before you buy I can do that. I'm getting 2 sheets tomorrow.

This post has been edited by StanIROCZ: Sep 10 2009, 03:54 AM

[Blainefab]

Google found this: http://www.acidistribution.com/pdf/LEXAN_S..._Guidelines.pdf

I've formed some small pieces, and the challenge will be to get the whole thing pliable and formed at once. If it is locally heated it will tend to ripple at the hot spot. If you can get another piece of hatch glass, and make a sandwich glass-Lexan-glass clamped together and then put the whole mess in an oven it could work. Dunno what safety glass will do at 350F, so wear eye protection.

[CrashTestDummy]

I'm interested in at least a half sheet for a windshield.

Any ideas on how to mold the hatch and have it come out with a decently close to stock shape?

No need to mold. Use the factory hatch hinges at the top, a Dzus fastener in each lower front 'corner', and a couple of straps from the top at the hinges to the back end to help it hold its shape. Pinch the tail end of the hatch window between the old metal trunk lid that you remove from the factory hatch, and a support brace that runs across the back of the car at the leading edge of the metal trunk lid.

[00 Trans Ram]

Local guy took his old hatch, clamped the sheet to it, and brought it to a powder-coating shop. They have huge ovens. Paid them $20 to bake it for an hour. When it took the lexan off, it rebounded about 1". In other words, it worked fine. I don't remember the temp of the oven, though.

Another guy, with an RX-7 (FC) simply bought flat sheets and used the supports and frame to make it bend. His turned out 99.9% perfect. Here's the thread where he details the install:

http://www.hphangout.com/showthread.php?t=...highlight=lexan

Some pics:
(IMG:http://bobbeasley.com/images/Lexan.gif)

(IMG:http://v8sevens.com/images/windshieldbraces.gif)

This post has been edited by 00 Trans Ram: Sep 11 2009, 01:43 PM

[wdtiger]

Any chance you could copy/paste the details from that thread? You have to register to view it.

[00 Trans Ram]

Here you go. I've listed the author of the individual posts in all caps before his/her comments. Also, these are only the relevant comments (deleted all the "That's looks good!" ones).

If you have any quesitons, please PM me and I'll shoot you his e-mail. Great guy, lots of experience, and willing to share. (jeez, that sounds like a personals ad!)

_______________________

-BOB-

I've discovered, like most subjects, if you search long enough you can find someone telling you not to do what others say is the best practice. The subject of switching to Lexan windows is no different. Here's what I ended up with.

I started with the rear hatch as I'm using plain (not coated) Lexan and I figured if I screwed it up it was not a big deal. I started with a $125 piece of 1/8" (all they sell) from Clausen's.

Fasteners seem to be a major area of disagreement even among the experts. I tried nutserts but found the side load, produced by the curving of the Lexan, put to much stress on the nutserts and caused failure. I ended up with countersunk stainless steel metal screws.

Drilling the holes is a 3 step process if you are going to counter sink the screws. First drill all the way through the Lexan and car frame with the correct size drill bit. Next over size the Lexan, this is to allow it to expand and contract. Finally, use a counter sink to finish up.

• Remove trim.
• Make a pattern from the existing window. Perhaps the most important step. I used large sheets, 2 X 4, of paper taped together.
• Remove the glass.
• Clean/scrape the ledge the glass sits on.
• Install 3/4" wide weather stripping where the edge of the Lexan will go.
• Draw a pattern on the protective film using your pattern.
• Cut the Lexan using a new wood fast cut jig saw blade. Blades for metal will melt the Lexan.
• Test fit.
• Starting at one edge install just enough fasteners to hold the Lexan in place and create the proper curves.
• Measure 2 1/2" from the edge of the cars window and draw an inner pattern for painting a black trim edge. Measuring from the vehicles window frame gives the inner pattern a straight edge and mitigates inconsistencies in the cut of the Lexan.
• Cut out the trim pattern from the protective covering and remove the covering.
• Starting at one side, drill the holes and attach as you work from one side to the other.
• Remove the Lexan.
• Paint the outer trim. The protective covering will not allow paint to seep under it.
• Remove outer covering from both sides and do the final install.

Because this is the rear hatch, I still have to make the two hold down straps that go on the outside of the Lexan and divide it roughly into thirds. I'm told this helps prevent the Lexan from blowing out.



(IMG:http://bobbeasley.com/images/Lexan.gif)

__________________



-MELAN444-

good write up bob. if you are two lazy to get the correct jigsaw blade you can apply painters tape to both side of the cut line and a metal blade works. can't explain it scientifically but works like a charm.

also, drilling a few 1-1/2" - 2" holes may help relieve pressure and probably help keep it from blowing out.

____________________



-BOB-

The big difference between the windshield and hatch is the bracing. The Grand Am Cup RX8s have a brace in the center and another that divides the right half into two equal sections.

I caught a break on this one. Five Star Race Car Bodies has these braces and it turns out one of the models fits a FC nearly perfect. The curve is dead on and all I have to do is trim 1/2" off of one end. These aluminum pieces will bolt in without any welding.

The Five Star braces are T shaped extruded aluminum with a foam face to protect the Lexan.



(IMG:http://v8sevens.com/images/windshieldbraces.gif)

_____________________



-BOB-

According to the folks at SpeedGlass, windshield thickness is not a function of impact resistence. It's about the ability to maintain it's shape and not blow in. If the largest span is small enough then 1/8" is what they recommend. In my case, with the braces, the largest span is only 2.5' X 32". If I did not want the braces, they would have recommended at least 3/16" .

I ordered 1/8" coated $190 + shipping. This is about the cost of a new glass windshield. If I get 2 seasons out of it then I'm ahead of the game at NPR. Now that we are road racing and not WTF racing (consistently running off track was okay) I expect to get several seasons out of the Lexan.... we shall see.



________________________







This post has been edited by 00 Trans Ram: Sep 11 2009, 01:44 PM

[StanIROCZ]

I'm somewhat flaking out on this deal. I got the 2 sheets in and one was in very good condition and the other is so-so. So if I buy a load of it I'm not sure what I'll get. Of course the guy originally said its "all undamaged". I assume that anyone that is buying this and paying to have it shipped is going to want a part that is in good condition, and I can't guarantee that. Local pickup is a different story since shipping is a big part of the cost.

I've confirmed that 3/16" lexan absolutely needs to be heat formed for a hatch application. You might be able to get by without it on 1/8", though.

"drape forming" see page 7 here: http://www.theplasticshop.co.uk/plastic_te...ssing_guide.pdf

MR10 Lexan can be heat formed but it doesn't look great. I tried a small piece in my oven (wife was gone for a couple hours). The MR10 coating distorts and the clarity gets funky. Pretty much confirms what the source above says on page 3. I think I read that Percy's Speed Glass heat forms the lexan and then puts on their own special coating that is supposedly better than the MR10, but their stuff is very expensive.

I can get 3/16" Lexan from my same source without the MR10, but I can only get it in 4x8 sheet which means you can only get one hatch or one windshield out of a full sheet. So it would be possible to heat form this stuff, but my next problem is I'm having trouble finding a powder coat shop that will help me out here. Even with the economy as it is they still don't seem to want to fuss with it or try something new. I'm still trying here though.

Quasar and I are looking into getting a 6x8 sheet of 1/8" Lexan and splitting it for our hatches. If we can find a source for it locally it won't cost much more, would be about 7 lbs lighter per hatch, and might not need heat formed.

Another good technical doc I found:
http://www.regalplastics.net/pdf/polycarb.pdf

I disassembled my hatch and weight all the components. I have some pretty firm numbers on the weight savings for lexan. I can post them tonight.

[trackbird]

Am I going to have to call and setup a GP on Lexan for the board? Sounds like I need to consider it.

[StanIROCZ]

Stock windshield:
32.5 lbs
.21" thick
glass density = 2*lexan

.177" thick Lexan windshield = 13.7 lbs (19 lb savings)


3rd gen hatch:
95 lbs complete with struts and spoiler and everything else but the plastic

Bare glass 57 lbs
.25" thick
glass density = 2*lexan

.177 thick lexan = 20.2 lbs (36.8 lb savings)
.118 thick lexan 13.5 lbs (43.5 lb savings)

The big steel panel at the rear of the hatch is 27 lbs. The VFN replacement is 4, or make an aluminum version (23 lb savings)

Stripping the rest of the unnecessary parts from the hatch, adding aluminum supports, and making a new jam to mount the lexan too pretty much cancels out to zero.

All told, lexan Front and rear + a new panel in the back will save about 77 lbs.



TB, are thinking GP for sheets of lexan or from vendors such as Percy's etc?

This post has been edited by StanIROCZ: Sep 25 2009, 03:33 AM

[trackbird]

I was thinking of just ordering finished windows from them. I think I have a connection (through a friend) to the owner. Let me see if I can get in touch with someone. If not, Harwood shows coated lexan and it was pretty cheap (as I remember).

[Blainefab]

I was thinking of just ordering finished windows from them. I think I have a connection (through a friend) to the owner. Let me see if I can get in touch with someone. If not, Harwood shows coated lexan and it was pretty cheap (as I remember).

If you can get them cut to an exact fit it would be a huge advantage to the installer. I've been getting molded 4th gen windows from FiveStar, and for some reason they make them about 2" oversize. Trimming and neatly finishing the edges is a lot of labor.

[trackbird]

As I remember, they offer oversized and "replacement windshield" styles. One is supposed to be cut just as a windshield. That's what I'm wanting to use.

[Racerdad916]

Just FYI: The factory is only an hour and 45 minutes from Columbus, in Lima Ohio. It is easy to get to from I-75, in fact you can see it from the Interstate. Maybe we could take a road trip and sort through the sheets. I will need enough to one or possibly two cars.

[StanIROCZ]

Just FYI: The factory is only an hour and 45 minutes from Columbus, in Lima Ohio. It is easy to get to from I-75, in fact you can see it from the Interstate. Maybe we could take a road trip and sort through the sheets. I will need enough to one or possibly two cars.

Which factory? I know there is US Plastics http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/default.asp in Lima. I called and they don't carry 6x8 sheets, the biggest is 4x8. If I settle for that size sheet I will go there for it, but the great thing about the 6x8 sheets is you can get two hatches out of it.

I grew up in Ottawa (20 min from Lima) and Mom still lives there. Not a big deal for me to swing by Lima.

But if there is indeed a "lexan factory" there I'm all over it.

[trackbird]

I'm guessing he means Percy's. I forgot about this and need to make some phone calls.

[QUASAR]

But if there is indeed a "lexan factory" there I'm all over it.

Preformed/precut at a good price/gp price within driving distance would be great. Does this place in lima sell hoods too?? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

This post has been edited by QUASAR: Oct 20 2009, 01:37 AM

[StanIROCZ]

I just got a quote for this: http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.a...duct%5Fid=30825

in 6x8 sheets 1/8" thick.

It is special order for them.

$150 / ea and 5% off if you get 2 or more.

With the 6x8 sheet you can get 2 hatches out of it, so $75 per hatch sounds pretty awesome.


AND, I found a local powder coat shop that will heat form it for me. I didn't ask for a price because I didn't think he would give me one since it is an experiment for him, but I can't think it would be too much. He does a lot of business for a guy that I might have paint my car so hopefully he won't do me wrong.