New rig tomorrow, Ba-bye Mr. diesel Options

[mitchntx]

I've been shopping for several months, trying to figure out where I'm headed now that racing junky itch is finally gone. It was fun while it lasted, but nothing lasts forever.

After paying $4/gallon for water at a Love's Truck Stop and subsequently $3K for injectors and a lot fuel delivery components, I'm done with diesels.

Tomorrow I trade for a 2013 GMC SLT 1500 CC 6.2L 4x4. Has the trailering package, so its equipped with coolers, HD rear diff and springs and 3.73 gearing. Maybe I'll buy an Airstream and join the good SAM club ...

I was serious about a Hemi Laramie, but just couldn't justify the cost. I found a couple which had wheels, tires, lift and custom leather seats and the price was jacked $16K. Better be some nice damn wheels.

And a 6.2L motor in a F150 was near $60K

So its home ...

12.4L ...

(IMG:http://lawmotorsports.net/mw/2012Sierra/VandSierra1.jpg)

[trackbird]

Nice ride Mitch! I've been considering a truck again (if I keep the Corvette and the SS). First I need to find a home for a nice Jeep.

[nape]

Sucks about the water, but that sure is a nice gasser!

[mitchntx]

Thanks and it's a handful.

The truck was ordered by a conversion company, was over extended and the local GM dealership picked up a few.

They were optioned kind of strange.

For instance every option inside just short of a Denali, standard Bose stereo, max trailering package (to get the 6.2L motor and 3.73 gears, but no intergrated brake controller), 4WD but no Z71 package, color-keyed accents instead of chrome and 18" plain wheels.

Stickered at $52K (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) Drove it out for under $40 after mark-downs, discounts and incentives and got $22K for the diesel (good riddence) ... KBB and NADA both valued trade on it at about $20K.

I'm pleased.

[Steve91T]

You weren't able to prove that the gas station sold you water? I've read of this happening and the gas station ended up paying for repairs. Plus, for $3000 you could have upgraded your injectors, along with the other fuel component and have it tuned. You would have had a towing machine. Easily 400hp and 800 tq to the ground, all with better fuel economy.

But you obviously know I'm a huge diesel fan. My early 99 F250 Powerstroke now has 228,000 miles and runs great. 20 MPG on the highway. 15 MPG while towing.

I know diesels aren't for everyone (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[trackbird]

I helped a friend put an $8,000 crate 7.3 Powerstroke (plus a $2,000 core charge) in his truck that had a hurt diesel. That was after $1,800 in injectors and other stuff. Honestly, diesels seem great as long as they run with nothing but oil changes. Once something breaks, the cost seems insane. I was seriously considering one at one time, but I've lost interest due to too many horror stories.

[Steve91T]

I helped a friend put an $8,000 crate 7.3 Powerstroke (plus a $2,000 core charge) in his truck that had a hurt diesel. That was after $1,800 in injectors and other stuff. Honestly, diesels seem great as long as they run with nothing but oil changes. Once something breaks, the cost seems insane. I was seriously considering one at one time, but I've lost interest due to too many horror stories.

Well of course. But who in their right mind buys a crate engine? Especially when there are thousands and thousands of 7.3's out there and they'll run to 400,000 miles or more.

For $8000, you could have swapped in a 12v Cummins and had like 600 hp. That's like saying, I'm never going to buy a C6 Z06 because the engines from GM are over $20,000.

I've been in the diesel world for the last 8 years now. One thing I've learned is that if you don't know what you're doing, they can be expensive. Last year my water pump let go. Literally started to come apart. Ford wanted $600 to change it out. I told them to F off, went to Autozone, got a pump for $140, a new thermostat with housing, and a couple of new hoses all for $200. Took me a few hours to do it.

228,000 miles on mine, original everything, except glow plugs, water pump, PS pump, and alternator. Even the turbo is original. Blackstone reports show that it's wearing great....it'll go another 200,000 miles easily.

Someday when I need new injectors, for $1000 I'll upgrade to Stage 1 single shots. 50 more hp and 1 more MPG. When the turbo lets go, I'll upgrade it for $1500 to a ball bearing unit.

I'm not trying to bash your friend, it's just a little crazy, that's all.

[trackbird]

He bought a truck that had a turbo that (it turned out) had been misted with dirt. The ends of the impellers were missing/chewed. Then it wasn't running right and he was in Jersey and didn't have shop space. Dropped it at Ford and they got him for about $1800 for some injectors and stuff. They did a compression test and found that one cylinder was down to about 1/2 the normal compression (all cylinders were roughly double what that cylinder was.....200 and 400 psi cranking compression sticks in my head, but it's been a while). Knowing he wanted to fix this thing once and not deal with it again and since his 115,000 mile 7.3 was already dying, he wasn't about to junk yard it. Also, he drove it in from New Jersey and we did the swap in a 3 day weekend and he drove it back home. So we didn't have time to do anything but stuff a crate engine in it and send it on the way. So, it was the path of least resistance....it was just an expensive path.

And I'm not likely to buy a C6 Z06....because engines ARE crazy expensive. While regular stuff is getting reasonably cheap these days. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[Steve91T]

He bought a truck that had a turbo that (it turned out) had been misted with dirt. The ends of the impellers were missing/chewed. Then it wasn't running right and he was in Jersey and didn't have shop space. Dropped it at Ford and they got him for about $1800 for some injectors and stuff. They did a compression test and found that one cylinder was down to about 1/2 the normal compression (all cylinders were roughly double what that cylinder was.....200 and 400 psi cranking compression sticks in my head, but it's been a while). Knowing he wanted to fix this thing once and not deal with it again and since his 115,000 mile 7.3 was already dying, he wasn't about to junk yard it. Also, he drove it in from New Jersey and we did the swap in a 3 day weekend and he drove it back home. So we didn't have time to do anything but stuff a crate engine in it and send it on the way. So, it was the path of least resistance....it was just an expensive path.

And I'm not likely to buy a C6 Z06....because engines ARE crazy expensive. While regular stuff is getting reasonably cheap these days. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

That's the number one reason 7.3's die. The airbox is a terrible design that cracks allowing unfiltered air in. I got very lucky when I bought my truck. It had 137,000 miles and had a broken airbox. I didn't realize it until I got it home. Dusted or not, it wasn't enough to damage the engine. Very lucky.

That's unfortunate about your buddy. In his case, it's definitely very expensive. Good job for changing the engine. I've read it weighs over 1000lbs alone. I will say one thing that sucks is that I can't change the clutch in my truck by myself. The tranny is so big and heavy that I'd probably kill myself. I think it was about $1500 for a clutch job.

Whatever, rowing through 6 gears with a turbo singing makes it all better (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[trackbird]

Shipping weight on the 7.3 was right about 900 lbs. We dropped it in the back of my Chevy 3500 and hauled it to the garage. I wound up driving around for about 3 days with the core strapped down in the bed (waiting on return instructions for the core). I got some strange looks with that thing back there. We did a clutch and all. The job was challenging. The turbo hits the body and it's a real trick to get it out.

[CrashTestDummy]

Agreed on the 'diesel is great until something breaks'. We've been extremely lucky with our D/A 3500HD. Even at only 77K miles, I think I'd trade it or sell it as-is if an injector went out or something more serious happened. I'm not sure I'd replace it with another, but I have certainly been impressed with this truck. It gets great mileage, runs well, and in spite of it's heft, will still press you back in the seat when you mash the pedal, so I'm not sure.

With all the silly crap they have to run on these things these days (cat, diesel exhaust fluid (WTF?!?)) that are wear items, I'll be definitely testing a gasser when the time comes.

But yeah, I'm thinking a crate engine is just the best idea. It's tested, and backed up by a warranty. I'm always reading forums where someone's describing this odd knock his craigslist engine is making now that he got it in the car and running. I'd be pi$$ed if that happened with a diesel, and if the PO hasn't really cared for the diesel, which is common these days, that's more than likely to happen. That, and you usually have to negotiate the maze that is shipping a 1000# lump of metal to and from your place, so there's a lot of value in convenience and a warranty.

[mitchntx]

Whatever floats yer boat. I've owned European and Amurican diesels and will never own another.

Having said that ... there is a stratosphere of difference between a 7.3 PSD and 6.0. Mine was a greaat truck and di everything I asked it to do. But when things begin going south, it's time to move on.

New diesels are being saddled with heavily restrictive emissions standards and it appears to be getting worse.

Steve, the only way to prove I got the water from that particular Love's was if I bought fuel exclusively from them. Locally, I did purchase from one place and one place only. But when travelling ...

Finally, I just don't tow anything any more. So it no longer made sense.

[CrashTestDummy]

<SNIP>

Steve, the only way to prove I got the water from that particular Love's was if I bought fuel exclusively from them. Locally, I did purchase from one place and one place only. But when travelling ...

Finally, I just don't tow anything any more. So it no longer made sense.

That's the strategy I follow. Even when it's inconvenient to make it to that one local station, I do it, just in case water becomes an issue. I can pull out the wad of receipts and challenge them to find one from another station. I should have added a mileage notation to each receipt, but I don't do that.

Yep, towing is the primary use of our truck, hence it's 77K mile odometer reading in it's 11 year life.

Nice CTS, BTW. We want a V wagon, but can't get past the pricetag.

This post has been edited by CrashTestDummy: May 30 2013, 12:53 PM

[GlennCMC70]

Is there a way to add an aftermarket water separator to the system that works better than the OEM one?
And I hate that Ford voids warranties for water related issues when it is there separator that allowed it past the filter. Seems like a better system should be installed and that added cost would save money on warranty claims.

[PeteL]

Is there a way to add an aftermarket water separator to the system that works better than the OEM one?
And I hate that Ford voids warranties for water related issues when it is there separator that allowed it past the filter. Seems like a better system should be installed and that added cost would save money on warranty claims.

I agree, for most people a diesel does not make economic sense. Maybe if you drive it 100,000 miles a year. I own one but only because I got a screaming deal on it and I've been lucky because it's been extremely reliable. Hopefully I haven't just jinxed myself.

Unfortunately no water separator is 100% efficient. If you get a wet enough tank of fuel some water will get past any separator.

You can help your self by using good filters. Some of the non-Motorcraft filters for Fords for example do not have the white polymer fabric covering the the filter media. I believe that fabric is probably dacron and is there to enhance the water separation efficiency of the filter.

You have to drain the separator periodically. They only hold so much water before they are full. Theoretically the WIF light should come on before it's a problem but I don't trust them.

Biodiesel makes it harder for the filter to separate out water because it emulsifies the water better than petroleum based fuel. Not bashing bio but it is a fact.

There are aftermarket separators that you can add inline with the OE filters but I have no personal knowledge of how well they work.

[Den 34]

If you are worried about water in the fuel system you can get one of these.

http://airdogdieselfuelsystems.com/

these have several benefits. 1) it has a water separator that is easily drain-able 2) it has a separate fuel filter of which you can get some VERY high quality filters to fit and use in addition to the factory filters. 3) it is a lift pump and reduces the strain on the factory injector pump. Not sure about Fords but the D max pup has to draw the fuel from the tank as well as pressurize the injectors. This supposedly helps the longevity of the CP3 pump on the Dmax's. 4) It separates the air / froth from the fuel. Not sure if this is just voodoo or what but it is a touted benefit.
One problem with the Duramax injectors is they are prone to failure if they get any debris over two microns. The factory filter only goes down to 10 microns. Adding one of these external filters allows you to improve and increase the filtration and double the water separation.
Here is another thread on the filter options on the Air Dog
.
http://www.duramaxdiesels.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32869

Bob

[mitchntx]

I filled up at a convenient store yesterday, using a fuel that didn't stink and costs $0.75 less. The truck starts without delay and the right pedal makes it go instantly.

Me likey ...

[StanIROCZ]

I filled up at a convenient store yesterday, using a fuel that didn't stink and costs $0.75 less. The truck starts without delay and the right pedal makes it go instantly.

Me likey ...

But Mitch,,,, you miss out on this fun: http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=11443

Went to dinner with the wife last night and on the return trip, we were at a stop light when an Explorer pulled up beside us.

2 guys in their early 20s had their heads bobbing to a thump-thump-thump bass beat loud enough to make MY windows rattle.

I noticed they had all windows down and were about 3/4 the way up on the passenger side of my PSD.

I inch forward about a foot, put my left foot on the brake and spooled the beast up.

They inched forward, waving their hands in front of their face as if swatting flies. So, I inched forward as well, still spooled and belching some dark gray smoke right at their open driver's window. They ran out of room because of the car in front of them and had to sit there.

Light turned green and we began moving forward, me dragging the brake to keep the exhaust sweet and dense and working hard to keep the Exploder targeted.

They finally just pulled over and into a parking lot ...

Wife and I laughed our asses off ...

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[mitchntx]

Good times ....

[nape]

Gas costs less then diesel? The gas station on the corner is $4.45/gal for 87 and $3.95/gal for diesel. Gas jumped up $.40/gal this week and diesel has held steady.