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Posted by: Jake Robb May 26 2010, 12:15 PM

Hi all, I'm new here. My name is Jake. Some of you may know me as a moderator at CamaroZ28.com.

I have an '02 Z28 M6, and just enough racing experience to know that I want to do it as often as possible. Some CZ28ers recommended that I come over here to get the advice I need, since everybody over there seems to prefer drag racing.

I've tried drag, and it's fun, but autocross and open track days are a lot more fun! I haven't tried road racing yet, but to be honest I'm not sure how it differs from an open track day.

Posted by: Eskimo May 26 2010, 12:18 PM

Welcome! There's a ton of knowledge here! (and none of it from me, that's for sure..)

Posted by: Todd May 26 2010, 12:44 PM

Welcome! This place is great for finding ways to spend money you don't have!!

Posted by: Jake Robb May 26 2010, 12:48 PM

I already have a list of mods I want that totals more than the original MSRP of the car, so that probably won't change much here.

Posted by: trackbird May 26 2010, 02:02 PM

Trophies... No matter how fast you are, you can't "win" practice (hpde)!!!

Welcome aboard!

Posted by: Jake Robb May 26 2010, 03:22 PM

Well in that case, I think I'll be sticking to open track days for now. I don't have any intention of being competitive... just having fun.

My understanding is also that RR events tend to be a lot stricter about safety stuff -- roll cages, window nets, etc., whereas open track days typically don't require much more than a helmet and a mechanically sound car. True?

Posted by: trackbird May 26 2010, 03:57 PM

True.

Posted by: CrashTestDummy May 26 2010, 08:16 PM

As Kevin said, 'True.' But review this thread:

http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=14156

and maybe think about maybe using a little more than a helmet. They can all be fun, but remember the safety, too.

Posted by: Jake Robb May 27 2010, 12:01 PM

Read through that thread last night. It's pretty eye-opening.

I saw someone hit a wall at 100+ at a drag strip in a 2001 Z28. No cage. The airbag deployed and she walked away. That's really the only major crash I've seen (in person). Despite that, I'm not ignorant about safety, nor do I harbor any delusions about how safe I am behind the wheel from disaster. However, at the same time, the car is my spring-summer-fall DD, and any sort of cage is pretty much out of the question. I have a driveshaft loop, but that's about it for safety mods (unless SFCs count -- I would think they help a little, but again, no delusions). Are there other things that you guys would recommend I install or use in the absence of a cage? (I could go make a tech thread about this...)

Posted by: cccbock May 27 2010, 09:00 PM

Someone may come up with something, but having done what you're prepping to do about 4 years ago, I can tell you that there really is no good substitute for a cage.

LG Motorsports used to sell a "harness bar" for our cars, and you can occsionally find one on ebay or other boards. It is a poor substitute, but better than stock nothing at all. It allows you to use a racing harness instead of the stock seat belts, thus keeping you in the seat better. It provides no crash safety whatsoever. It works much better with an aftermarket seat designed for harnesses...meaning you should install it with a racing style seat. This would be a REAL PITA just for a track day. Many of the HPDE style events require you to use the stock seats and seatbelts in a "stock" car for insurance purposes....mainly because they don't want to take responsibility for providing a high level tech inspection of aftermarket parts. Not to mention, our cars have gone through fairly rigorous crash testing just to drive on the street. Sometimes hardening the vehicle (including SFC) without the adequate restraining systems and safety gear is a bad idea.

A couple of manufacturers offer a "roll bar" for our cars. This is a far cry from a cage, but a giant leap up from the harness bar mentioned above. They can be bolted or welded in and the interior carpets and plastic can be trimmed to fit. Mine and my son's came from Wolf. You can get them with/without side bars. The nice thing about these is your back seat can stay in and you can keep the stock seats and belts if you want. But the obvious upgrade here is to install a racing seat and proper harnesses. Back seat might not work too good for anything but little kids, or your dog.

Long way of saying that to get any significant increase in safety is going to cost you, both in street driveability, and in real dollars. I think it has been said, but I would try a few events in your totally stock car, then decide where to leap next. As you get more comfortable with the events, the needed upgrades will become apparent. I suspect you will be wanting better brakes/cooling, and something substantial to keep you in your seat in the corners. Followed shortly by wheels/tires.

When you start ripping the interior out of the car to save a few pounds, you'll know you're hooked.

my$0.02

bock

Posted by: CMC #37 May 28 2010, 12:36 AM

Welcome Jake! You have gotten some great advice here. Open track days are a lot of fun but you may not come home with the car one time. Physical damage to you is rare with proper safety equipment but always a risk. Being on track is a controlled situation, but all variables, like you, your car, other cars, etc. cannot all be controlled 100% of the time. Be sure to go for max. safety or buy a car you can set up with a proper cage and such for track days. My friend Matt Gork on here has had a great Camaro for sale on here all set up for HPDE/ autox for a killer price. If you get hooked on track days then a car like this will be what you want. Keep your beauty for street cruisin'.

I would do autox first to get good basics then plan on getting a lot of instruction on track. There's nothing like having a good set of skills to maximize your fun and give you your best shot at being safe. Looking forward to hearing about your experiences!

Posted by: Zedzag May 31 2010, 03:57 AM

I agree to get a few autocrosses under the old belt before doing any open track days. I'm trying to make this switch soon myself but I'll always auto-x. So much more fun in my bone stock 02 SS than my SM 2005 WRX!

Posted by: CMC #37 May 31 2010, 10:12 PM

Much more "entertainment" for sure! Sounds like a good plan!

Posted by: firehawkclone Jun 1 2010, 10:34 AM

Welcome to the board Jake

Do some AX & DE and have some fun. Than buy a track car, trust me!

I'll show you 2 pictures 5yrs apart.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/firehawkclone/My%20track%20pictures/768redIV.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/firehawkclone/My%20track%20pictures/KG4R4066.jpg

Posted by: Jake Robb Jun 1 2010, 12:08 PM

I've done some autocross. Only twice in the Camaro, but a bunch of times in previous cars. I'll continue to do those as opportunities arise, but my experience has been that at the typical Solo2 event, there are no passengers allowed at all, even instructors -- whereas at the typical open track day, instructors are commonplace and encouraged, especially for the new guys. I'm looking to do more than just have fun -- I want to improve.

Having said that, I really have no interest in buying or building a dedicated track car, or getting into anything involving serious competition. The whole point for me is to be able to enjoy the full extent of my Camaro's capabilities, which I can't do on the street. Besides, I don't have the money or the time to get into this anything more than casually!