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> Fourth-gens in CAM-C?
RichJ
post Feb 22 2019, 07:26 PM
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I've been away from the autocross scene for a number of years but looking to get back into it. I'm having a hard time deciding whether to give CAM-C a try in my 95 Camaro, or whether the car is just too old to be competitive with the newer IRS pony cars. My car has 550/150 springs with revalved Bilsteins, a 32mm solid front bar, 21mm rear bar, GW front A-arms (as well as some other suspension bits in the rear) and about 360 whp with a T56, 3.73 final drive and a Torsen T2R. I've got a complete set of 18x10.5 Z06 wheels and would run 315 30 18 Rival S's square, though I haven't purchased the tires yet. The car is currently sitting on Conti ExtremeSportContacts 285 40 17s on 17x9.5" wheels, which would probably be my rain set up. The car is about 3500 lbs. (guessing) because it has a back half cage and GW SFC's.

Does this sound like a car that could potentially come close to running with the typical pack in CAM-C (rusty driver notwithstanding)?

My daily is a 2018 ZL1 and it'd be sad if my modded fourth-gen couldn't be more competitive in CAM-C than my stock ZL1. If that is even close to the case, I'm definitely barking up the wrong tree spending money on Old Faithful. I have no desire to autocross the new car though. If I don't go down the CAM-C road with my fourth-gen, then I'll probably sell the car (which I've owned over 20 years) and get something like a Miata or SSC 86 twin.

Thanks for any thoughts. I've been mulling this over for a while and am really kind of stuck.

Thanks,
Rich

This post has been edited by RichJ: Feb 22 2019, 07:28 PM
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mkm
post Feb 22 2019, 09:33 PM
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Need to drop 300 lbs. Have at least 335 all the way around and put down at least 425 to the wheels. That will get you in the ball park depending on driver skill.

Hope that helps.

Mark
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ar52kortlang
post Feb 23 2019, 12:54 AM
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I run my 4th gen in CAM C ... my weight is 3390. Car dynoed at 380 hp. 315 30 Rivial

I run depending on the course 1.5 sec faster then the 1le that come out... had an off event this month and lost ...Cone hit didnít help either. I am usually .5 second off the ZL1 that comes out.

I been working on the driver mod allot this year cause I already placed 1st last year so not so much pressure to win this year.

You can log into event results for the Houston Scca region and check it out..
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00PewterSS
post Feb 23 2019, 03:32 AM
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You can look at the CAM Challenge results. That should tell you something. I haven't seen a car with 335 and serious weight reduction run, but I bet that is what it would take.

A 6th gen 4cyl turbo is fast in AutoX. GM brought prepped 6th gen Camaros to Oscoda, their ZL1 was slower that their 4cyl car. That 4cyl car is what won CAM challenge and Nats. So their cars and Neil Britton in a 4cyl Camaro are faster than my car (by over a second). This year I'm still trying to catch up with keeping my car a street car, street weight... I still don't think I can catch em. I have the quickest 4th gen around here, not saying that much though.

The experience of the last poster isn't common with mine. My car is not faster than a 1LE. Bad driver, I win, good driver... it might be pretty close, but with my current setup and me driving I would lose.

By the way I currently have mostly UMI stuff, LCA, k-member, 35mm front / 21mm rear, afco coil overs 850 front, Watts link, 440rwhp and 315 Rivals. BFG just came out with a Rival S 1.5, you will want those not the normal Rival S. I just bought RE71R 285 and I think I will be faster than the old 315 Rival S. No idea what my car weighs, but I suspect a lot.
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RichJ
post Feb 24 2019, 01:38 AM
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Thanks for the replies. Sounds like CAM-C would be a more uphill battle than I am looking to undertake.

This post has been edited by RichJ: Feb 24 2019, 01:38 AM
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GCrites80s
post Feb 24 2019, 04:16 AM
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I say 4th Gens should be in CAM-T. Who cares if some stock '78 or '82 Z28 has 180hp. Are we trying to keep from offending them? SBC horsepower is almost free.
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00PewterSS
post Feb 24 2019, 05:21 AM
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QUOTE (GCrites80s @ Feb 24 2019, 04:16 AM) *
I say 4th Gens should be in CAM-T. Who cares if some stock '78 or '82 Z28 has 180hp. Are we trying to keep from offending them? SBC horsepower is almost free.


I think IRS shouldn't be allowed in CAM... but I'm biased. I mean it is "Classic" American Muscle, what is classic about a 2019 Camaro? CAM-T allows really light cars, a 4th gen would be difficult to get that light and still be a car.
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GCrites80s
post Feb 25 2019, 02:59 AM
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Hmm, good point, I didn't think about the re-engineered Pintos, Vegas, Monzas and Novas in CAM-T. And 2nd Gens can get really light as well with enough work.
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CrashTestDummy
post Feb 25 2019, 03:11 PM
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QUOTE (00PewterSS @ Feb 22 2019, 09:32 PM) *
You can look at the CAM Challenge results. That should tell you something. I haven't seen a car with 335 and serious weight reduction run, but I bet that is what it would take.

A 6th gen 4cyl turbo is fast in AutoX. GM brought prepped 6th gen Camaros to Oscoda, their ZL1 was slower that their 4cyl car. That 4cyl car is what won CAM challenge and Nats. So their cars and Neil Britton in a 4cyl Camaro are faster than my car (by over a second). This year I'm still trying to catch up with keeping my car a street car, street weight... I still don't think I can catch em. I have the quickest 4th gen around here, not saying that much though.

The experience of the last poster isn't common with mine. My car is not faster than a 1LE. Bad driver, I win, good driver... it might be pretty close, but with my current setup and me driving I would lose.

By the way I currently have mostly UMI stuff, LCA, k-member, 35mm front / 21mm rear, afco coil overs 850 front, Watts link, 440rwhp and 315 Rivals. BFG just came out with a Rival S 1.5, you will want those not the normal Rival S. I just bought RE71R 285 and I think I will be faster than the old 315 Rival S. No idea what my car weighs, but I suspect a lot.


Note though, that that 4-cyl has some special GM-developed tuning, and they change turbos more often than they do tires. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)
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00PewterSS
post Feb 25 2019, 03:43 PM
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Ha, yeah I know it is special... I work with those guys. But even if they weren't trying to blow it up, it was fast out of the box, faster than their heavier cars. Their e-diff cals are apparently a big improvement.
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CrashTestDummy
post Feb 25 2019, 06:23 PM
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Yeah, I'll admit I was really liking the idea of the thing, and figuring it would be fast. Then the GM guys showed up with their ride and blew CAM out of the water. I was even more interested, until I listened to the interview, and they mentioned the turbo fragility, and the special diff tunes, I was less-interested. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
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landstuhltaylor
post Feb 26 2019, 05:26 PM
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QUOTE (00PewterSS @ Feb 22 2019, 10:32 PM) *
You can look at the CAM Challenge results. That should tell you something. I haven't seen a car with 335 and serious weight reduction run, but I bet that is what it would take.


Close enough. I couldn't even get enough heat in the 315s in the 3 run format. And for the record I am bailing on CAM-C. I am running out of places to add weight without starting to really cut the car up and ruining it's ESP legality. CAM-S from now on.

This post has been edited by landstuhltaylor: Feb 26 2019, 05:28 PM
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landstuhltaylor
post Feb 26 2019, 05:29 PM
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QUOTE (00PewterSS @ Feb 24 2019, 12:21 AM) *
QUOTE (GCrites80s @ Feb 24 2019, 04:16 AM) *
I say 4th Gens should be in CAM-T. Who cares if some stock '78 or '82 Z28 has 180hp. Are we trying to keep from offending them? SBC horsepower is almost free.


I think IRS shouldn't be allowed in CAM... but I'm biased. I mean it is "Classic" American Muscle, what is classic about a 2019 Camaro? CAM-T allows really light cars, a 4th gen would be difficult to get that light and still be a car.


Uhhh, no. All it takes is a fiberglass hood and removing some random bits and pieces.
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JimMueller
post Feb 26 2019, 07:58 PM
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QUOTE (landstuhltaylor @ Feb 26 2019, 12:29 PM) *
Uhhh, no. All it takes is a fiberglass hood and removing some random bits and pieces.


Where do you get a fiberglass hood these days? I tried to get hold of Alain but haven't received a reply.
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00PewterSS
post Feb 26 2019, 11:52 PM
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QUOTE (JimMueller @ Feb 26 2019, 07:58 PM) *
QUOTE (landstuhltaylor @ Feb 26 2019, 12:29 PM) *
Uhhh, no. All it takes is a fiberglass hood and removing some random bits and pieces.


Where do you get a fiberglass hood these days? I tried to get hold of Alain but haven't received a reply.


My car would need a significant diet to get down.to 2950. I never got much heat in my 315 either in one run.
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Dans93lt1
post Feb 27 2019, 07:08 PM
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QUOTE (JimMueller @ Feb 26 2019, 07:58 PM) *
QUOTE (landstuhltaylor @ Feb 26 2019, 12:29 PM) *
Uhhh, no. All it takes is a fiberglass hood and removing some random bits and pieces.


Where do you get a fiberglass hood these days? I tried to get hold of Alain but haven't received a reply.



I always hear good things about VFN fiberglass in Addison IL. Although that might be a little biased as theyre local to me, so no one around here is paying shipping. Guy from my work has one on his 3rd gen drag car and it seemed to fit pretty well out of the box, gaps werent perfect but that car did meet the wall a couple seasons ago.
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Mojave
post Feb 27 2019, 08:22 PM
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QUOTE (JimMueller @ Feb 26 2019, 01:58 PM) *
QUOTE (landstuhltaylor @ Feb 26 2019, 12:29 PM) *
Uhhh, no. All it takes is a fiberglass hood and removing some random bits and pieces.


Where do you get a fiberglass hood these days? I tried to get hold of Alain but haven't received a reply.


I asked him about a CF hood a while back, but he said he didn't have the supplies or help to make more at the time.
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landstuhltaylor
post Feb 27 2019, 09:00 PM
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QUOTE (00PewterSS @ Feb 26 2019, 06:52 PM) *
QUOTE (JimMueller @ Feb 26 2019, 07:58 PM) *
QUOTE (landstuhltaylor @ Feb 26 2019, 12:29 PM) *
Uhhh, no. All it takes is a fiberglass hood and removing some random bits and pieces.


Where do you get a fiberglass hood these days? I tried to get hold of Alain but haven't received a reply.


My car would need a significant diet to get down.to 2950. I never got much heat in my 315 either in one run.


Then you have too much extra crap in the car to begin with. Mine is at 3130 in ESP trim and could pretty easily get under 3100. 3050 is likely possible if I were willing to spend money on brakes. 2950 is not hard without a rule book.
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CrashTestDummy
post Feb 28 2019, 02:47 PM
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QUOTE (JimMueller @ Feb 26 2019, 01:58 PM) *
QUOTE (landstuhltaylor @ Feb 26 2019, 12:29 PM) *
Uhhh, no. All it takes is a fiberglass hood and removing some random bits and pieces.


Where do you get a fiberglass hood these days? I tried to get hold of Alain but haven't received a reply.


Hawks? VFN? Harwood?
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