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> SO WHAT HAS CHANGED??
SuperMacGuy
post Sep 8 2018, 10:12 PM
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Internet slowness is a product of a few things: Everyone wants rampant tracking - they want to see what every user clicks on, what they like, how long they stay on a page. This means 1 or many more javascript libraries and other things load on a page. There are web pages that take longer to load because there is 2MB of scripts and trackers, when the actual HTML content is 200kb and would load instantly. Also, on forums like this there is a database backing it and they get rather big. LS1Tech has millions, maybe billions of posts, that have to get fetched and rendered. It's not negligible. Try a search for a generic term. Here on FFRAX its reasonably fast. LS1T is decidedly slower, again due to sheer volume.
I'd say that actually data now is easier to come by. So many people have had issues and solved them for me already! The trick is to search for them, and get the real right answer. Certainly there is more chaff than wheat to sort through on some topics. The amount of "data" we internet-enabled humans have to deal with grows every year, and yeah it's a problem to some extent.
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landstuhltaylor
post Sep 9 2018, 02:22 PM
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QUOTE (ESPCamaro @ Aug 12 2018, 08:41 AM) *
So......a long long time ago I spent a bunch of time here. And then I didn’t (long story)

Well I’m pretty much set on the idea I’m going to be autocrossing a 4th gen again.

So what has changed?

Some things I’ve found already:
Tires are drastically more expensive
Available “good” r compound options are even more limited
Street prepared has some allowances I would have liked to have way back when
The “newer cars” have taken over ESP
Wheels have gone up in price. I think I only paid $400-450/wheel for CCW’s

CAM C looks like a class that I’d probably run in “most” of the time just for the participation.


What else has changed in 10 years LOL


(IMG:https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1855/30702097958_f613e77040_b.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phTkhhg7hGs...eature=youtu.be
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79T/A
post Sep 10 2018, 07:30 PM
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QUOTE (landstuhltaylor @ Sep 9 2018, 02:22 PM) *
QUOTE (ESPCamaro @ Aug 12 2018, 08:41 AM) *
So......a long long time ago I spent a bunch of time here. And then I didn’t (long story)

Well I’m pretty much set on the idea I’m going to be autocrossing a 4th gen again.

So what has changed?

Some things I’ve found already:
Tires are drastically more expensive
Available “good” r compound options are even more limited
Street prepared has some allowances I would have liked to have way back when
The “newer cars” have taken over ESP
Wheels have gone up in price. I think I only paid $400-450/wheel for CCW’s

CAM C looks like a class that I’d probably run in “most” of the time just for the participation.


What else has changed in 10 years LOL


(IMG:https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1855/30702097958_f613e77040_b.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phTkhhg7hGs...eature=youtu.be

Fake news. Everyone says these old cars can’t compete.
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trackbird
post Sep 11 2018, 11:01 AM
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QUOTE (ESPCamaro @ Sep 8 2018, 05:16 PM) *
One thing that has changed for sure.....
All forums are way slower than back in the day. Information online is definitely harder to come by


Yea, we don't see the volume of posts or people that we did back in the early days. But, this site is likely one of the best repositories for information on these cars and for that reason I do my best to keep the lights on. If you can't find something, send me an email, I often remember old threads and can find things that are a little tricky to find.


QUOTE (landstuhltaylor @ Sep 9 2018, 10:22 AM) *
QUOTE (ESPCamaro @ Aug 12 2018, 08:41 AM) *
So......a long long time ago I spent a bunch of time here. And then I didn’t (long story)

Well I’m pretty much set on the idea I’m going to be autocrossing a 4th gen again.

So what has changed?

Some things I’ve found already:
Tires are drastically more expensive
Available “good” r compound options are even more limited
Street prepared has some allowances I would have liked to have way back when
The “newer cars” have taken over ESP
Wheels have gone up in price. I think I only paid $400-450/wheel for CCW’s

CAM C looks like a class that I’d probably run in “most” of the time just for the participation.


What else has changed in 10 years LOL


(IMG:https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1855/30702097958_f613e77040_b.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phTkhhg7hGs...eature=youtu.be


Bravo Sir! Well done.
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CrashTestDummy
post Sep 11 2018, 01:10 PM
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OH, is that landstuhltaylor here? Nice! Yes, well done, sir!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

On another note, does anyone have a link to a picture of that '81 'SVO'? As an SVO owner, inquiring minds want to know. I'd also be very interested in the list of update/backdate parts that were used, but that's for another list.
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landstuhltaylor
post Sep 11 2018, 02:06 PM
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QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Sep 11 2018, 09:10 AM) *
OH, is that landstuhltaylor here? Nice! Yes, well done, sir!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

On another note, does anyone have a link to a picture of that '81 'SVO'? As an SVO owner, inquiring minds want to know. I'd also be very interested in the list of update/backdate parts that were used, but that's for another list.


There are some on Facebook under their profiles as well as on gotcone.com and all the other photographers sites. They had a V8 in it up until two weeks ago or so (it ran with the turbo 4 at Nats 2016 and blew up day 2). My understanding is that they have a hard time finding the turbo 4 parts but that it is much faster with that engine in it. Their first real runs in it were on the practice course on Wednesday and they were still tuning it on Thursday runs.

I'm still not sure how they justify gutting the back seat, but until it starts beating me I don't care.

And on that note, trying to get a custom diff made or get the Truetrac modified. If that doesn't work I'm probably bailing on ESP and codriving for a while until I can get a half-assed CP/CAM/SM build going. All the tricks I have up my sleeve won't be worth anything without a better diff and the G threw away what should have been an easy win with cones.
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mkm
post Sep 11 2018, 09:11 PM
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QUOTE (landstuhltaylor @ Sep 11 2018, 09:06 AM) *
QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Sep 11 2018, 09:10 AM) *
OH, is that landstuhltaylor here? Nice! Yes, well done, sir!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

On another note, does anyone have a link to a picture of that '81 'SVO'? As an SVO owner, inquiring minds want to know. I'd also be very interested in the list of update/backdate parts that were used, but that's for another list.


There are some on Facebook under their profiles as well as on gotcone.com and all the other photographers sites. They had a V8 in it up until two weeks ago or so (it ran with the turbo 4 at Nats 2016 and blew up day 2). My understanding is that they have a hard time finding the turbo 4 parts but that it is much faster with that engine in it. Their first real runs in it were on the practice course on Wednesday and they were still tuning it on Thursday runs.

I'm still not sure how they justify gutting the back seat, but until it starts beating me I don't care.

And on that note, trying to get a custom diff made or get the Truetrac modified. If that doesn't work I'm probably bailing on ESP and codriving for a while until I can get a half-assed CP/CAM/SM build going. All the tricks I have up my sleeve won't be worth anything without a better diff and the G threw away what should have been an easy win with cones.



I have a T2R for sale if interested. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
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slowTA
post Sep 11 2018, 10:28 PM
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What year was the T2R built?
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landstuhltaylor
post Sep 11 2018, 11:16 PM
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QUOTE (mkm @ Sep 11 2018, 05:11 PM) *
QUOTE (landstuhltaylor @ Sep 11 2018, 09:06 AM) *
QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Sep 11 2018, 09:10 AM) *
OH, is that landstuhltaylor here? Nice! Yes, well done, sir!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

On another note, does anyone have a link to a picture of that '81 'SVO'? As an SVO owner, inquiring minds want to know. I'd also be very interested in the list of update/backdate parts that were used, but that's for another list.


There are some on Facebook under their profiles as well as on gotcone.com and all the other photographers sites. They had a V8 in it up until two weeks ago or so (it ran with the turbo 4 at Nats 2016 and blew up day 2). My understanding is that they have a hard time finding the turbo 4 parts but that it is much faster with that engine in it. Their first real runs in it were on the practice course on Wednesday and they were still tuning it on Thursday runs.

I'm still not sure how they justify gutting the back seat, but until it starts beating me I don't care.

And on that note, trying to get a custom diff made or get the Truetrac modified. If that doesn't work I'm probably bailing on ESP and codriving for a while until I can get a half-assed CP/CAM/SM build going. All the tricks I have up my sleeve won't be worth anything without a better diff and the G threw away what should have been an easy win with cones.



I have a T2R for sale if interested. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)


Same question as above, how old is it and how much use does it have? I'm just concerned how much life it has left.

I do have a possible lead on getting a custom diff made, hoping to get that ball rolling this weekend. If either of these pan out my next project will be tackling an M29 swap.

PJ and I compared data from his car which I think is the car to beat right now with the HR swap and 335s. The G was taking a bit wider line and was able to carry a bit more speed through the corner, but the LS pulls it on the straight. Slaloms were dead even and came down to me screwing up the entry. The diff burned me a bit on the two major rights on the course, but then I pulled and extra 1.5mph from 50-60 and 2.5mph from 60-70. That's with the tall stock gearing for an 81mph second. Anything over 40mph is an advantage for me.

This post has been edited by landstuhltaylor: Sep 11 2018, 11:23 PM
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CrashTestDummy
post Sep 12 2018, 12:46 PM
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QUOTE (landstuhltaylor @ Sep 11 2018, 09:06 AM) *
QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Sep 11 2018, 09:10 AM) *
OH, is that landstuhltaylor here? Nice! Yes, well done, sir!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

On another note, does anyone have a link to a picture of that '81 'SVO'? As an SVO owner, inquiring minds want to know. I'd also be very interested in the list of update/backdate parts that were used, but that's for another list.


There are some on Facebook under their profiles as well as on gotcone.com and all the other photographers sites. They had a V8 in it up until two weeks ago or so (it ran with the turbo 4 at Nats 2016 and blew up day 2). My understanding is that they have a hard time finding the turbo 4 parts but that it is much faster with that engine in it. Their first real runs in it were on the practice course on Wednesday and they were still tuning it on Thursday runs.

I'm still not sure how they justify gutting the back seat, but until it starts beating me I don't care.

And on that note, trying to get a custom diff made or get the Truetrac modified. If that doesn't work I'm probably bailing on ESP and codriving for a while until I can get a half-assed CP/CAM/SM build going. All the tricks I have up my sleeve won't be worth anything without a better diff and the G threw away what should have been an easy win with cones.


Yeah, gotcone.com finally posted up ESP pics. Not much of a car. ESP-legal turbo 2.3s for that thing are starting to get rare, and parts expensive. Sad they're no longer running the turbo, but I can understand. The rear seats aren't that heavy in those cars. Heck, the folding rear seats in the hatch aren't that heavy, either, and we folded them down in our SVO to get the weight lower. I guess they pulled the back seats because racecar? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

I was amazed at the speed you were able to achieve in that thing without having to shift. 81 MPH, wow!
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mkm
post Sep 12 2018, 01:19 PM
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QUOTE (landstuhltaylor @ Sep 11 2018, 06:16 PM) *
QUOTE (mkm @ Sep 11 2018, 05:11 PM) *
QUOTE (landstuhltaylor @ Sep 11 2018, 09:06 AM) *
QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Sep 11 2018, 09:10 AM) *
OH, is that landstuhltaylor here? Nice! Yes, well done, sir!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

On another note, does anyone have a link to a picture of that '81 'SVO'? As an SVO owner, inquiring minds want to know. I'd also be very interested in the list of update/backdate parts that were used, but that's for another list.


There are some on Facebook under their profiles as well as on gotcone.com and all the other photographers sites. They had a V8 in it up until two weeks ago or so (it ran with the turbo 4 at Nats 2016 and blew up day 2). My understanding is that they have a hard time finding the turbo 4 parts but that it is much faster with that engine in it. Their first real runs in it were on the practice course on Wednesday and they were still tuning it on Thursday runs.

I'm still not sure how they justify gutting the back seat, but until it starts beating me I don't care.

And on that note, trying to get a custom diff made or get the Truetrac modified. If that doesn't work I'm probably bailing on ESP and codriving for a while until I can get a half-assed CP/CAM/SM build going. All the tricks I have up my sleeve won't be worth anything without a better diff and the G threw away what should have been an easy win with cones.



I have a T2R for sale if interested. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)


Same question as above, how old is it and how much use does it have? I'm just concerned how much life it has left.

I do have a possible lead on getting a custom diff made, hoping to get that ball rolling this weekend. If either of these pan out my next project will be tackling an M29 swap.

PJ and I compared data from his car which I think is the car to beat right now with the HR swap and 335s. The G was taking a bit wider line and was able to carry a bit more speed through the corner, but the LS pulls it on the straight. Slaloms were dead even and came down to me screwing up the entry. The diff burned me a bit on the two major rights on the course, but then I pulled and extra 1.5mph from 50-60 and 2.5mph from 60-70. That's with the tall stock gearing for an 81mph second. Anything over 40mph is an advantage for me.


Diff is about 4 years old never had any wheel spin with it. It was one of the last ones sold.

Mark
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landstuhltaylor
post Sep 12 2018, 01:54 PM
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QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Sep 12 2018, 08:46 AM) *
Yeah, gotcone.com finally posted up ESP pics. Not much of a car. ESP-legal turbo 2.3s for that thing are starting to get rare, and parts expensive. Sad they're no longer running the turbo, but I can understand. The rear seats aren't that heavy in those cars. Heck, the folding rear seats in the hatch aren't that heavy, either, and we folded them down in our SVO to get the weight lower. I guess they pulled the back seats because racecar? (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

I was amazed at the speed you were able to achieve in that thing without having to shift. 81 MPH, wow!


They did run the turbo 4. I think they finished building it and got it in the car the Wednesday before Nats.

Stock 2nd is 78 but after Peru I bumped it to 6500rpm and 81mph. A bit risky with the 98 rod bolts and 165k but if it blows it blows. Only hit 73 on the courses this week so I think the M29 and either a 3.42 (71mph) or 3.23 (74mph) at 6500 would be much better and dig the car out of 35mph stuff a lot faster. Current peak is 0.52G accel at around the 56mph mark.

QUOTE (mkm @ Sep 12 2018, 09:19 AM) *
Diff is about 4 years old never had any wheel spin with it. It was one of the last ones sold.

Mark


Want to PM what you would want for it? I'm supposed to pull my diff to see if the guy thinks he can make something with at least a 4:1 TBR but obviously no idea just yet. I don't think it would be pre-loaded at all so may still not be quite as good as a T2R.

This post has been edited by landstuhltaylor: Sep 12 2018, 01:56 PM
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79T/A
post Sep 12 2018, 10:42 PM
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You need some preload in that thing, otherwise the investment wouldn’t be worth it. Can I ask who would be making/modifying the diff?
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landstuhltaylor
post Sep 12 2018, 11:44 PM
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QUOTE (79T/A @ Sep 12 2018, 06:42 PM) *
You need some preload in that thing, otherwise the investment wouldn’t be worth it. Can I ask who would be making/modifying the diff?


http://franavehicles.com/


We are just at the is it possible stage. He made a diff for the Mazdaspeed6 that ran as well. My understanding is that it would not have any preload but I have not lifted a tire since I went to the softer front bar. It would need to have one hell of a bias ratio though as I do get close and I am bending in -0.6 camber to the rear this winter. Factory spec! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

This post has been edited by landstuhltaylor: Sep 12 2018, 11:50 PM
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ESPCamaro
post Sep 14 2018, 03:43 AM
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What is an M29?

The mustang runs without a backseat because of an update/backdate allowance
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trackbird
post Sep 14 2018, 11:06 AM
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QUOTE (ESPCamaro @ Sep 13 2018, 11:43 PM) *
What is an M29?

The mustang runs without a backseat because of an update/backdate allowance


The M29 was a T56 that had gearing that was "shorter" (similar to the C5 Z06 instead of the standard T56, but I believe it was slightly different gearing). It has a lower torque rating, but more "gear".

1993 Camaro/Firebird w/2.73 final drive "M28" 350ft lbs 3.36:1 2.07:1 1.35:1 1.00:1 0.80:1 0.62:1 reverse 3.28:1
1993 Camaro/Firebird w/3.23 final drive "M29" 400ft lbs 2.97:1 2.07:1 1.43:1 1.00:1 0.80:1 0.62:1 reverse 3.28:1
1998 Camaro/Firebird 450ft lbs 2.66:1 1.78:1 1.30:1 1.00:1 0.74:1 0.50:1 reverse 2.90:1

More info here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg-Warner_T-56_transmission
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CrashTestDummy
post Sep 14 2018, 01:08 PM
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QUOTE (ESPCamaro @ Sep 13 2018, 10:43 PM) *
<SNIP>

The mustang runs without a backseat because of an update/backdate allowance


Interesting! I knew the 1st Gen Shelby had a rear seat delete option, but didn't know it was an option for the Fox body. Still, the rear seats weigh nothing and are in the best place for any weight anyway.
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landstuhltaylor
post Sep 14 2018, 01:25 PM
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QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Sep 14 2018, 09:08 AM) *
QUOTE (ESPCamaro @ Sep 13 2018, 10:43 PM) *
<SNIP>

The mustang runs without a backseat because of an update/backdate allowance


Interesting! I knew the 1st Gen Shelby had a rear seat delete option, but didn't know it was an option for the Fox body. Still, the rear seats weigh nothing and are in the best place for any weight anyway.


Yeah not surprised they had an option I just don't think these guys did the full conversion. Bare metal showing where the rear seats use to be. Unless it was some sort of drag pack style option where even at the OE level they didn't bother finishing it with carpet.
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ESPCamaro
post Sep 14 2018, 01:37 PM
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QUOTE (trackbird @ Sep 14 2018, 05:06 AM) *
QUOTE (ESPCamaro @ Sep 13 2018, 11:43 PM) *
What is an M29?

The mustang runs without a backseat because of an update/backdate allowance


The M29 was a T56 that had gearing that was "shorter" (similar to the C5 Z06 instead of the standard T56, but I believe it was slightly different gearing). It has a lower torque rating, but more "gear".

1993 Camaro/Firebird w/2.73 final drive "M28" 350ft lbs 3.36:1 2.07:1 1.35:1 1.00:1 0.80:1 0.62:1 reverse 3.28:1
1993 Camaro/Firebird w/3.23 final drive "M29" 400ft lbs 2.97:1 2.07:1 1.43:1 1.00:1 0.80:1 0.62:1 reverse 3.28:1
1998 Camaro/Firebird 450ft lbs 2.66:1 1.78:1 1.30:1 1.00:1 0.74:1 0.50:1 reverse 2.90:1

More info here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg-Warner_T-56_transmission


Right but that only works with an LT1/LT4
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ESPCamaro
post Sep 14 2018, 01:39 PM
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QUOTE (landstuhltaylor @ Sep 14 2018, 07:25 AM) *
QUOTE (CrashTestDummy @ Sep 14 2018, 09:08 AM) *
QUOTE (ESPCamaro @ Sep 13 2018, 10:43 PM) *
<SNIP>

The mustang runs without a backseat because of an update/backdate allowance


Interesting! I knew the 1st Gen Shelby had a rear seat delete option, but didn't know it was an option for the Fox body. Still, the rear seats weigh nothing and are in the best place for any weight anyway.


Yeah not surprised they had an option I just don't think these guys did the full conversion. Bare metal showing where the rear seats use to be. Unless it was some sort of drag pack style option where even at the OE level they didn't bother finishing it with carpet.


Cobra R is the UD/BD allowance
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