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> Latest on new new Camaro, 8/4/05, Mark Reuss says likely
lateapex
post Aug 4 2005, 04:30 PM
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This is from today's Automotive News:

Mustang success motivates GM’s engineers, Mark Reuss says
By Richard Truett
Automotive News / August 04, 2005
TRAVERSE CITY, Mich. -- The continued success of Ford’s red-hot Mustang is being noticed at General Motors. There has been talk reviving the Chevrolet Camaro as a competitor to Ford’s pony car.

Mark Reuss, GM’s executive director of vehicle architecture and Performance Division, says his engineers are looking to develop a low-cost rear-wheel drive platform that makes good business sense. Reuss spoke to staff reporter Richard Truett at the Management Briefing Seminars.

In light of the success of Ford’s new Mustang, has there been any rethinking of plans to bring back the Camaro or some other competitive car?
Yeah, absolutely. It’s not going unnoticed for sure. I think Ford did a great job with the Mustang, and you really have to look at it as a portfolio of cars. They have everything (in price) from the mid 20s up to 40s on that. They’ve done a nice job. And you have to pay attention to that. For many, many years it was SUVs and four doors. I think the market goes back and forth on a lot of this stuff. I think a coupe with a really great package is a great thing to have. The Pontiac GTO right now is filling our niche in the upper end of the Mustang portfolio. But as we go through time, we look at how do we participate?

The rear-wheel-drive program GM was working on, is it killed, frozen or just not on the front burner?
We would like to have a low-cost, rear-wheel platform in our portfolio, but business is very tough right now. You have to look at that and ask how do we do this on a very profitable basis? We have more brands than just the Ford brand. We are trying to make intelligent decisions on how you do a rear-wheel-drive platform for a couple more brands than a one-branded Ford deal. I think Ford has said the Mustang is the main brand but we are going to do Cobras and all these sub-brands that get us into the higher end. We are probably going to do things that have more brand exposure potentially on a low-cost, rear-drive architecture. Sometimes it gets a little dangerous, quite frankly, about who talks about what and what that person in the media writes about it. Like there is some sort of revelation that we are canceling something or starting something. Quite frankly this is a journey we are on all the time.

Does “low cost” rule out using the Cadillac CTS platform?
Well, I don’t know. If you look at the CTS, you have to look at the good things, such as the straight frame barrels on the front that are very efficient for crush and very stiff for vehicle dynamics. We have an short- and long-arm front suspension and a multi-link rear and those … inherently perform very, very well. There are some cost issues compared to a strut suspension. But the geometry and components that you have in a short- and long-arm architecture could change to make a low-cost rear-wheel-drive architecture. We also have aluminum components. We have some pretty expensive materials in there. There are a lot of different ways to get costs down. Right now we are trying to look at what the portfolio looks like for the next 20 years. What are the things we want to do with it? I don’t think the know-how is lacking. It’s specifically, what do we want to do with it over the next 10 years and then making an efficient business decision to address those needs.

Is the CTS a good size to launch other vehicles off?
We have two different widths, one for rear-wheel drive, one for all-wheel drive. We’ve got a long wheelbase version for China. So there’s a lot of wheelbase flexibility there.

Since the Holden Monaro is going out of production, is there pressure to come up with the next rear-wheel-drive architecture?
It’s not really an initiative as much as it is part of doing the business. We are looking at this stuff all the time. When we are ready to make decisions around what we are going to do there it is going to be a lot of where we want to put the car performance-wise, price-wise and brand-wise. Then we will go from there. That’s kind of how we are approaching it. This is an ongoing thing.

What makes the Pontiac Solstice so special that buyers are lining up for it?
The soul of this car is four-cylinder, 20,000 bucks and low-volume.

How would a GXP version of the Solstice be configured, with a supercharger?
Probably not. If wanted to do something we probably would look more globally on how we want to charge the engine. We could use a turbocharger.

What else is the Performance Division working on?
We are actually doing some things for mainline vehicles, such as uplevel engines and with packaging and execution, things we have not been asked to do in the past. I’m launching the Cadillac XLR-V and STS-V, and Chevrolet Trailblazer SS right now. We are spending a lot of time on those launches making sure those cars are right.

Beyond the engines in the XLR-V and STS-V, will the performance division get any engines out of the new Performance Build Center, where engines are made by hand?
Oh yeah, I think so.

You may e-mail Richard Truett at rtruett@crain.com
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nape
post Aug 4 2005, 06:01 PM
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It's great that they're thinking about a cheap pony car again, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
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trackbird
post Aug 4 2005, 06:36 PM
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Well, I'd love to see it. However, GM has a history of being 4 years (or more) too late and/or killing off the cars that are finally "finished" (after several years on the market). I mean, they are finally building a "Miata" (Solstice). That came out in 1990 (as I remember). Not that it's exactly a Miata, but it took them 15 years to realize that 2 seat convertibles sell (other than the Corvette). They finally made the Impala SS (the real impala ss from the 90's, not the current FWD platform) into a popular (great?) car, just in time to kill it. Same for the Grand National. It gets a cult like following.....Dead in about 3 years.

Fiero? The last year, the Forumla Fiero was a pretty good car. They fixed most (if not all) of the ills of that car.....and, it was the last year.

So, I'm expecting a retro 69 Camaro. I suspect that the performance will be stellar, but I don't know if it will sell. I say this because things run in trends and the retro trend has been running for a while.

Miata - Retro British roadster (with working electricals)
PT Cruiser - Retro street rod
VW Bug - Retro Bug
Chevy SSR - Retro pickup (that seems to be stuck on dealers lots)
Mustang - Retro Pony car

I suspect that GM will come out with it just in time for everyone to get fickle and chase the next trend. Do I think it will sell? Sure, we'll all buy one, but there are only 800 members here..... :leaving:

However, I hope I'm wrong.
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rmackintosh
post Aug 4 2005, 06:41 PM
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...yeah....great.....ONCE AGAIN....GM is looking to get into it BECAUSE someone else (in this case Ford) is successful with it..."lets copy what Mustang has done"....DOH! What a concept....guess that is where the Camaro started all those years ago.....as an "answer" to the Mustang....can't a GM employee use forward thinking????...or do you sign a clause in your employment contract with them FORBIDDING it????

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)
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rmackintosh
post Aug 4 2005, 06:43 PM
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QUOTE (trackbird @ Aug 4 2005, 12:36)
Well, I'd love to see it. However, GM has a history of being 4 years (or more) too late and/or killing off the cars that are finally "finished" (after several years on the market). I mean, they are finally building a "Miata" (Solstice). That came out in 1990 (as I remember). Not that it's exactly a Miata, but it took them 15 years to realize that 2 seat convertibles sell (other than the Corvette). They finally made the Impala SS (the real impala ss from the 90's, not the current FWD platform) into a popular (great?) car, just in time to kill it. Same for the Grand National. It gets a cult like following.....Dead in about 3 years.

Fiero? The last year, the Forumla Fiero was a pretty good car. They fixed most (if not all) of the ills of that car.....and, it was the last year.

So, I'm expecting a retro 69 Camaro. I suspect that the performance will be stellar, but I don't know if it will sell. I say this because things run in trends and the retro trend has been running for a while.

Miata - Retro British roadster (with working electricals)
PT Cruiser - Retro street rod
VW Bug - Retro Bug
Chevy SSR - Retro pickup (that seems to be stuck on dealers lots)
Mustang - Retro Pony car

I suspect that GM will come out with it just in time for everyone to get fickle and chase the next trend. Do I think it will sell? Sure, we'll all buy one, but there are only 800 members here..... :leaving:

However, I hope I'm wrong.

...EXACTLY!...have you seen the "new" Chevy "PT Cruiser"???? ....don't even know its name, but WHY IN THE HELL WOULD YOU COME OUT WITH THAT....THIS LATE IN THE GAME....AND AN ALMOST IDENTICAL COPY???????????????

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif) (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)
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trackbird
post Aug 4 2005, 06:46 PM
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QUOTE (rmackintosh @ Aug 4 2005, 13:43)
...EXACTLY!...have you seen the "new" Chevy "PT Cruiser"????   ....don't even know its name, but WHY IN THE HELL WOULD YOU COME OUT WITH THAT....THIS LATE IN THE GAME....AND AN ALMOST IDENTICAL COPY???????????????

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)   (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)   (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)   (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)

Yea, I did. It was at the Cleveland Auto Show (I forgot to mention it specifically, and the name escapes me). It's a terrible copy. Like watching Kia trying to build a Civic. It's similar, but not quite right.

If it still exists, my next one will probably be a Corvette. If GM's still around at that point.
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robz71lm7
post Aug 4 2005, 06:56 PM
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My g/f is lookng for a new car and has points on a GM card or whatever you call them. I flat out said the only thing I would go to GM for is trucks and suv's.

GM is really running themselves in the ground right now. (I know...duh) I'd love to see another Camaro though. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
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lateapex
post Aug 4 2005, 07:27 PM
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QUOTE (rmackintosh @ Aug 4 2005, 13:41)
What a concept....guess that is where the Camaro started all those years ago.....as an "answer" to the Mustang....
(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)

Randy, you got it exactly right. What Reuss said yesterday is probably a repeat of what was said in the last GM board meeting in 1964. “Why aren’t WE doing this? Ford is on schedule to sell over 500,000 of those things in its first year.” Two years later the Camaro was on showroom floors. This time I’ll bet it will be 3 years, and it will weigh 3,650 lbs. At that weight, I will NOT be one of the 800 FRRAX members buying one. I don’t care how many airbags, nav systems, heads-up displays, power everythings, etc it has, I do not enjoy driving heavy cars. My current Z28 is really heavier than I like at 3,425 lbs.

If they cannot afford (justify) developing a dedicated platform for inexpensive rear-drive cars, then they should consider stretching the Solstice/Sky platform. The CTS platform may be ready to go, but after removing the “expensive” aluminum parts as Reuss suggested they would have to do, it would be REALLY heavy. The 1967 Z28 had a curb weight of 3,070 lbs., and it was the perfect size. I don’t need a barge. If the Solstice platform is a modern, stiff, crash-test ready platform, why not get extra productivity from it and amortize its R & D costs over more units? It would only be stiffer with a closed top. It is 2,860 lbs with the 4 cylinder, so brace and gusset the platform to handle some torque, stretch it for a back seat, add the LS2 and T56 and we have a 3,300 lb car with no “expensive” aluminum, magnesium, carbon fiber, etc. Cheap to build. Cheap to fix. Fun to drive. It should even work for “drifting”.

Why is it that Toyota and Honda can develop unique, low-volume platforms and sell the resulting cars profitably? GM is hopelessly enmeshed in a giant black hole of bureaucracy. I had hoped that Lutz could do an end run around it all, but they have already slapped him down for thinking like a “car guy”.

This post has been edited by lateapex: Aug 4 2005, 07:30 PM
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trackbird
post Aug 4 2005, 08:23 PM
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QUOTE (lateapex @ Aug 4 2005, 14:27)
This time I’ll bet it will be 3 years, and it will weigh 3,650 lbs. At that weight, I will NOT be one of the 800 FRRAX members buying one.

Bob, you make a great point. My thinking was that we can (and will) strip them to get the weight down (if it's a reasonable platform to start with). If it's the yacht that it might become, I'll stick to my plans of a Corvette (or an M3, S4, 911, etc.....budget willing).
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Cal
post Aug 4 2005, 09:50 PM
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QUOTE (trackbird @ Aug 4 2005, 12:46)
If it still exists, my next one will probably be a Corvette. If GM's still around at that point.

:stupid:
Yep, the Corvette is the only thing they have left that I would buy, other than their trucks. I've been very happy with the Dmax.

I'm still waiting for the GM answer to the Ford GT-40, but at Corvette prices! I like that Factory-Five thing that looks like a GT-40 and is LSX powered.
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Cal
post Aug 4 2005, 10:00 PM
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Here it is:
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324573
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Teutonic Speedra...
post Aug 5 2005, 12:12 AM
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Corvette, Trucks, and GTO daily driver work for me.
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Mericet
post Aug 5 2005, 01:21 AM
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QUOTE (trackbird @ Aug 4 2005, 14:46)
QUOTE (rmackintosh @ Aug 4 2005, 13:43)
...EXACTLY!...have you seen the "new" Chevy "PT Cruiser"????  ....don't even know its name, but WHY IN THE HELL WOULD YOU COME OUT WITH THAT....THIS LATE IN THE GAME....AND AN ALMOST IDENTICAL COPY???????????????

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)   (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)   (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)   (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)

Yea, I did. It was at the Cleveland Auto Show (I forgot to mention it specifically, and the name escapes me).

HHR
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