IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 Forum Rules 
Blaine Fabrication.comUMI PerformanceSolo PerformanceHotpart.comUnbalanced Engineering
3 Pages V  < 1 2 3 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> its all about the garage
marka
post May 10 2007, 05:52 PM
Post #21


Experienced Member
***

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 1,936
Joined: 26-September 05
From: Youngstown, OH
Member No.: 896



Howdy,

QUOTE (CMC#5 @ May 10 2007, 12:54 PM) *
1) flooring...epoxy coating sounds like a ginormous PITA to do, plus waiting for two months for curing/drying after the thing is done so I can then spend four days acid dipping/painting waiting for it to dry before I move in sounds unlikely. Am I being too negative? Do those rubber floor tiles/roll out sheets work with jack stands etc? That sounds easy...though probably fall under the category of "nice to have/too expensive".


I've not done my floor yet, but... I lived with an uncoated floor in my old shop and got pretty sick of the constant concrete dust that came up.

I'd at least use a sealer on it.

QUOTE
3) The whole building is behind a fence with the German Shepherd in the picture so I'm not really worried about intruders...but I think I'll let price drive the decision on windows. All other things being equal I think I'd rather have a lift than a bunch of windows, no?


I think that's the wrong question... I think the right question is "Will I hate myself in two years because I didn't spend $500 on some windows?"

Doing windows now is no big deal. Adding them later will be a PITA.

QUOTE
5) The upstairs will be partially finished as a guest house (big influence on convincing the wife here!). I was considering setting up ac/heat with a split to do either the bottom or the top. This way I could cool it, but not spend as much on equipment. It would mean one or the other though. Thoughts?


For the occasional guest areas, I'd do a window A/C unit and electric space heater. They're pretty cheap and the inefficency won't matter if its an occasional use thing. You're in Texas, right? So it doesn't get particularly cold but you'd definitely want A/C, right?

QUOTE
6) Anyone have thoughts for the walls other than normal drywall?


I used OSB (wafer board) in my old shop on the premise that I'd be able to drive a screw/nail anywhere I wanted. In practice, I mounted stuff to the studs anyway. With the new shop I used drywall instead, but a part of that decision was because it was attached to the house and I wanted fire protection. Without needing fire protection, I'd do whatever was cheaper.

QUOTE
7) I've heard normal copper plumbing with soldered fittings is ok for air use...is this true? Any better ideas?


Sure, it'll work. But if copper is as expensive there as it is here, I'd just use good old fashioned iron pipe. You can get cutting / threading equipment pretty cheap at Harbor Freight and its really not all that hard to do. The copper / sweated joints will be easier to install, but I wouldn't pay money for it.

Folks also use plastic... PVC maybe? I dunno. I've heard concerns about that stuff getting brittle with age, but don't have any real experience / data with it.

Another electrical thing... If you're going to have your trailer inside, put in a dedicated trailer outlet... For future-proofness get one of the ones designed for rv hookups that provide receptacles for 220 and 110 (in 30A and regular 20A connectors). Something like what they show at: http://www.rvpoweroutlet.com/ Of course, at $130, I'd be tempted to put together my own since you don't care about having breakers, a lid, etc. Either way though, having power for the trailer will let you power up the lights & use the trailer outlets.

Mark
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
AllZWay
post May 10 2007, 06:38 PM
Post #22


Advanced Member
**

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 647
Joined: 30-December 03
From: Paris, Texas
Member No.: 74



You should visit Mitch's Warren Motorsports Complex.... it is very nicely done.
You can never have too big of a shop.....never.

My shop is 30x40 with a 25foot overhang on the back for trailer and camper parking.

Make dang sure it is insulated... mine was not when it was built and now I can't afford to do so.

I need many more outlets like Mitch said... I would like my air plumbed, but just haven't done it.

I do have good lighting and plenty of windows though.

I would also check into to STAINED concrete instead of trying to coat it.

James
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rmackintosh
post May 10 2007, 07:22 PM
Post #23


Senior Member
******

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 5,226
Joined: 24-December 03
From: Danville, CA, USA
Member No.: 27



QUOTE (AllZWay @ May 10 2007, 01:38 PM) *
I would also check into to STAINED concrete instead of trying to coat it.

James



Yeah stained concrete is VERY cool....a buddy of mine did it in his professional shop....dunno how much it cost, but it is VERY SWEET! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool2.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
roadracetransam
post May 10 2007, 08:37 PM
Post #24


Advanced Member
**

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 689
Joined: 8-May 06
From: Charlotte, NC
Member No.: 1,201



Put skylights! They sell nice circular ones at Lowes that look like large recessed spotlichts, really bright.
My guess is that the guest room unit (nice sell to the wife by the way) will turn into additional storage space about a year past compleation. Keep the bathroom downstairs.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Powerslide91
post May 10 2007, 09:38 PM
Post #25


Member
*

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 100
Joined: 27-November 05
Member No.: 991



QUOTE (CMC#5 @ May 10 2007, 11:54 AM) *
1) flooring...epoxy coating sounds like a ginormous PITA to do, plus waiting for two months for curing/drying after the thing is done so I can then spend four days acid dipping/painting waiting for it to dry before I move in sounds unlikely. Am I being too negative? Do those rubber floor tiles/roll out sheets work with jack stands etc? That sounds easy...though probably fall under the category of "nice to have/too expensive".


I think you are off in the weeds (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Again, I just used the kits from Lowes, but it was pretty easy. I applied it when my house was first built. Swept it out, then borrowed a buddies power washer. Power washed a couple of times to get all the loose grit off it it. In the kit was a citric acid that you mix with water and apply with a watering bucket. Let it soak, then washed it off. Again I used the power washer but I don't think that was needed. Then needed to give it a day or so to dry. There is a test in the epoxy kit, something like cover a 1x1 section with plastic wrap and check it the next day, if you find moisture under the plastic, it need longer to dry. Easy. The epoxy was a 2 part, you mix it and it has the consistency of normal paint. I applied it using a broom handle attached to a nap roller. The epoxy apply quick and easy. My suggestion is to put it on "thick" to allow it to flow into the little micro grooves in the cement. I forget the total cure time, it was something like 1 or 2 days till you walk on it, then 7 days before putting a car on it.

The first time you drop a full oil filter into the floor and watch it roll across the shop glugging oil the whole way you will be very happy you put down epoxy. I have spilled just about everything on my floor and it all wipes up with a rag.

Jeff
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mitchntx
post May 10 2007, 09:47 PM
Post #26


Nothing says 'I love you.' like a box of Hydroshoks
******

Group: Moderators
Posts: 5,284
Joined: 23-December 03
From: Granbury, TX
Member No.: 4



Remember guys ... this is Texas. Front and rear doors are open 95% of the time. So natural light isn't an issue.
My shop has no windows and I haven't missed them at all. Plus, they use up valuable wall space for peg board.

Skylights? No way. The average roof in Texas lasts 7 or 8 years because of hail.
That is why I went with a metal building and not wood. Zero maintenance.

The reason I said CAT5 is because my wireless router just doesn't cut it in my shop. Hard wire, baby!
And having SPEEDChannel in the shop is WAY cool.

Over sized doors ... good call. My 8x18 was pricey, but worth it. Also, I had them install it as a "ceiling hugger" that is it doesn't turn horizontal as it opens. It opens up at about a 45* angle. Had to get a heftier garage door opener, but again, the overhead space is worth it. And I considered 2 single doors, but decided I wanted the flexibility of pulling in a car, trailer motorcycle, lawn mower, whatever right in the middle if needed. I didn't want to jockey around a 2 foot wide post in the middle and 2 cars in the garage stalls.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
firehawkclone
post May 10 2007, 10:40 PM
Post #27


Grumpy
*****

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 2,722
Joined: 1-January 04
From: Bakersfield CA
Member No.: 81



I would also do the awning/overhang outside for the trailer, maybe even the truck to.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
pknowles
post May 10 2007, 11:20 PM
Post #28


Experienced Member
***

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 1,427
Joined: 12-February 04
From: Huntingtown, MD
Member No.: 193



QUOTE (marka @ May 10 2007, 01:52 PM) *
Folks also use plastic... PVC maybe? I dunno. I've heard concerns about that stuff getting brittle with age, but don't have any real experience / data with it.

Yes you can use PVC pipe and yes it does get brittle with age. However if it's kept out of direct sunlight it will last a long, long time. PVC is a lot easier to install, but make sure you use Schedule 40 or schedule 80 pipe and not drainage pipe, which is not rated for pressure. I would still use one iron U tube to help condense and catch any water that got through the separator.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mitchntx
post May 10 2007, 11:22 PM
Post #29


Nothing says 'I love you.' like a box of Hydroshoks
******

Group: Moderators
Posts: 5,284
Joined: 23-December 03
From: Granbury, TX
Member No.: 4



I used black iron natural gas line.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
AndyB
post May 11 2007, 01:22 AM
Post #30


Member
*

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 38
Joined: 10-November 04
From: Roseville, Ca
Member No.: 535



I'm a license electrician in California so hope this helps:

I'd run 100amp 220v underground service out the garage which will give you more than enough power for pretty much anything. For that small of a garage a single 20amp circuit for your lighting circuit will be more than enough, wire it so ONLY the lights are on the breaker and not outlets. That way if the a breaker were to pop you wont be in the dark. . I recommended the 8ft flourscent fixtures, use as many as you see fit. I tend to go overkill of lighting and will pretty much install lights end to end all the way across the garage as you can never have enough task lighting. I'd wire each bank of lights on their own switch so you can turn on and off only the lights you want. Be sure to install 3/4 way switches if you have multiple entry points. You will need two-three 20amp circuits for general use outlets, be sure to GFCI the first outlet and wire the downstream ones into the load side of the GFCI or use a GFCI breaker. Outdoor lights are required outside of any entry point.

The amperage on your 220v circuits will be determined by the machine being used. They all have a plate on them indicating the maximum allowed breaker size. Be sure to use the properly sized wire for the breaker to be used.

Any wires that are not behind sheet rock or exposed to physical damage will need to be installed in EMT or flexible metallic conduit. Basically if you can touch a piece of wire without standing on a ladder it needs to be physically protected by EMT/Flex. Be sure not to drill into any overhead joists as well.

Schedule 80 PVC works great for under ground service, some states require rigid metallic conduit so be sure to check first. If you have a long run from the panel to the garage use 2" PVC as it will make pulling #2 wire a hell of a lot easier and don't forget the ground (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
slowTA
post May 11 2007, 01:37 AM
Post #31


Experienced Member
***

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 2,276
Joined: 4-May 04
From: Kenvil, NJ
Member No.: 331



So who has info about a 220V GFCI? Out of necessity I have my welder outlet outside with an all weather cover.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
AndyB
post May 11 2007, 02:58 AM
Post #32


Member
*

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 38
Joined: 10-November 04
From: Roseville, Ca
Member No.: 535



QUOTE (slowTA @ May 10 2007, 08:37 PM) *
So who has info about a 220V GFCI? Out of necessity I have my welder outlet outside with an all weather cover.


Easiest way is to use a GFCI breaker such as one that is used for a hot tub.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cutler-Hammer-50A-GFCS...1QQcmdZViewItem
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
z28tt
post May 11 2007, 01:41 PM
Post #33


www.skulte.com
**

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 345
Joined: 26-October 04
From: W. Hartford, CT
Member No.: 515



The price of copper has gone through the roof, whether you use it for wiring, and build in extra current capacity, or for air compressor lines. My 60A 12 circuit sub panel is protected by a 60A breaker at the main, and also at the sub (i.e. works as the master disconnect switch, needed for more than 8 circuits, I believe). It's fed by 6-3 cable (three six gauge conductors and a ground). My 240V compressor and welder circuits have a 30A breaker, and I think it's 10 gauge Romex. Is it gage, or gauge, for wires (same for sheet metal?)? Having a 50A instead of a 30A breaker forces you to run 6g instead of 10g wire, which can quite a bit more expensive (Mark or Andy can probably give a ballpark cost per foot), especially if the run goes to the other side of the shop. The 30A breaker & magnetic starter for the 5hp compressor motor (real 5 hp, not "peak", about 80 lbs alone, BelAire 318V compressor) is marginal (2hp motors in lathes, bridgeports, and saws no sweat), and dims the whole house for a split second when it kicks in (100A main service), but I've never had a problem with tripping the breakers. I checked the Rotary Lift specs, and most of their lifts only need a 20A 208-230V circuit (http://www.rotarylift.com/Service_and_Support/Frequently_Asked_Questions/FAQPages/Electrical%20Requirements.pdf). A 200 Amp TIG needs a 30A breaker, but if you're planning on getting something larger, maybe a 50A circuit makes sense. A 50A for the future powdercoating oven (gotten free from Craigslist of course!) is a smart idea. Consider where your big equipment will be, and place the circuit breaker panel nearby to cut down on how much wire needs to be run. I'd keep it near a door as well.

I ran two RG6 coax for the TV (one of which is connected to the DVR's coax output in the living room, to watch old races), and two Cat5 cables for phone and networking. If it's going to be the garage majal, you'll want in-wall speakers, so run the wiring for that too. Two less things that will be sitting on a shelf or cabinets...

Before they pour concrete, have a drain so you can wash the vehicles inside, especially in the winter.

I like the skylight idea, but your in-law apartment on the 2nd floor kills that.

Consider building the walls with staggered 2x4's to make it more soundproof. Make sure the drywall is sealed well, so workshop smells don't permeate the apartment above. If you're getting a heater, think about having a ducted outdoor air inlet for the burner, so you don't have to restrict yourself when dealing with flammable vapors.

Have two I beams that run parallel along the shop over the car bay, with another cross beam on rollers, and a trolley chain hoist. Very convenient lift for anything, and doesn't require the storage space of an engine crane.

Try to have a clear span without support poles if you can (engineered wood laminate beams, I beams, etc...).

A garage door on the backside so you can drive through (thank you, come again) if necessary.

The office/clean room idea is good. Perfect for engine/transmission rebuilding where you don't want any dust. Have a dirty room too, for grinding, sandblast, & chopsaw. This will keep the shop much less dusty, and keep the nice chopsaw smell out of everything else.

Exhaust hose so you can run the car inside w/ doors closed if necessary.

Several large fire extinguishers.

Hose reel for air lines and cord reel for electrical, near the workbench and car area.

I'm sure I can think of more ways to spend your money. I love planning garages! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by z28tt: May 11 2007, 01:41 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DavidDymaxion
post May 11 2007, 03:39 PM
Post #34


Advanced Member
**

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 254
Joined: 3-June 04
Member No.: 355



Some more ideas:

Do a 240V central vac rather than a shop vac. Then you can mount it high on the wall and save some floor space. A 240V has about 4 times the power of any portable vac.

If you do a plasma cutter, put a 240V plug near the door. My plasma cutter makes an incredible amount of metal dust, so I like to use it outside.

I took a HEPA filter from a thrift store, and used flexible heater hose to duct it outside via a dryer vent. Then I can bring the hose close to what I'm welding, or drying, to suck the fumes outside.

If I were doing the garage from scratch, I would put in a heated floor. Working on cars you wind up laying on the floor alot.

I got this idea from seeing some rich folks driveways: Inset rows of lights into the floor.

The huge plastic sink gets alot of use.

I put a slot in my workbench. I can put a trash can under the slot, and it makes sawing really easy.

A metal topped table is nice for working on oily stuff. Oil will destroy particle board.

Some day I would like to wire into a garage door safety beam, and put an LED where I can see it, so I can see when the car has pulled in just far enough to clear the door. This would leave the maximum amount of room at the front of the car for working.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
CrashTestDummy
post May 11 2007, 03:46 PM
Post #35


Veteran Member
*****

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 3,792
Joined: 3-July 04
From: Pearland, Texas
Member No.: 385



QUOTE (Powerslide91 @ May 10 2007, 04:38 PM) *
I think you are off in the weeds (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Again, I just used the kits from Lowes, but it was pretty easy. I applied it when my house was first built. Swept it out, then borrowed a buddies power washer. Power washed a couple of times to get all the loose grit off it it. In the kit was a citric acid that you mix with water and apply with a watering bucket. Let it soak, then washed it off. Again I used the power washer but I don't think that was needed. Then needed to give it a day or so to dry. There is a test in the epoxy kit, something like cover a 1x1 section with plastic wrap and check it the next day, if you find moisture under the plastic, it need longer to dry. Easy. The epoxy was a 2 part, you mix it and it has the consistency of normal paint. I applied it using a broom handle attached to a nap roller. The epoxy apply quick and easy. My suggestion is to put it on "thick" to allow it to flow into the little micro grooves in the cement. I forget the total cure time, it was something like 1 or 2 days till you walk on it, then 7 days before putting a car on it.

The first time you drop a full oil filter into the floor and watch it roll across the shop glugging oil the whole way you will be very happy you put down epoxy. I have spilled just about everything on my floor and it all wipes up with a rag.

Jeff


What Jeff said. It was like a week's worth of work, most of that time was spent letting stuff dry. The longer you can wait before putting a tire on it, the better. It makes cleanup _possible_ and almost a joy to do. Sweeping the floor is a completely different operation with a coated floor vs. bare concrete. Absolutely, completely worth the time and expense. Once you do it, you will never have an un-coated garage floor again. I'm sure sealing is the same, but probably has quite similar preparation procedures.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Blainefab
post May 11 2007, 10:11 PM
Post #36


I build race cars
*****

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 4,748
Joined: 31-August 05
From: Central coast, CA
Member No.: 874



Al - Some random thoughts:

Bench space - I've got 14' of stainless benchtop - the stuff is about indestructable and cleans up easy. Look for a restaraunt or food service salvage. New is crazy expensive.

15" deep shelving about 18" above the benches - just below eye level. They are filled with stuff that gets used often, helps to relieve clutter on the benchtop. I've extended the shelving past the benches and around the corner where my welding table sits. The table is "in the round" and power tools just a step away.

Power - 4plex on the ceiling above the welding table, a 8outlet power strip on the shelf support near the welding table, and a duplex every 4' on the bench wall. NOT ENOUGH OUTLETS! duplex should be 4plex, and every 3' along the benches. Outlet height is just under the shelf, so about shoulder level - this is the ideal height - above the bench clutter, no stooping to reach.

Air - I'm leasing, so just use 1/2" rubber air hose for the main line with a couple of T's with disconnects to make the drops. For permanent I'd use 3/4" black pipe. I have 3 drops in the shop - a 50' at one end, a 25' at the welding table (short so it isn't underfoot all the time), and another 50' at the other end of the shop, hung on a lift post. Reels on all of them would be nice, but I just hang them in long loops off a hook.

Lighting - in a roughly 30'x30' space with 8' ceiling I have 3 rows of T8 fixtures - 34 4' bulbs, and it is pretty good. I have a small halogen under the shelf at the bench nearest the drill press, and the drill press has a light that is on most of the time.
Walls/ceilings are white. The low ceiling helps the lighting, and there is a loft overhead for storage.
In the 18x35' lift bay there are about 16 4' T8 bulbs about 12' up under a 16' ceiling, and it is enough to find the cars but not
enough to work on them without spot lighting. No natural light gets in the shop and that is kind of oppressive - I'd like at least a small window or skylight to give a clue if it is day or night outside.

Sink - I've got a utility sink in the shop, next to the parts washer. I use it a dozen times a day. Bathroom is around the corner thru a door - I like having the sink separate fom the bathroom so I don't get doors filthy on the way to the sink.

Ditto on the epoxy floor coating - use the good industrial stuff, and do it before you get too settled. I did the coating in my last shop - big job but worthwhile. I did not take the time to do it in this shop and now regret it.

This post has been edited by Blainefab: May 11 2007, 10:20 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cccbock
post May 11 2007, 10:39 PM
Post #37


Advanced Member
**

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 934
Joined: 7-March 06
Member No.: 1,113



QUOTE (Blainefab @ May 11 2007, 05:11 PM) *
Ditto on the epoxy floor coating - use the good industrial stuff, and do it before you get too settled. I did the coating in my last shop - big job but worthwhile. I did not take the time to do it in this shop and now regret it.


A quick note on the flooring in case you are not convinced. Do it, and do it before you move in.

I did not do it, and now I very much regret it. My concrete looks like hell and it is ALWAYS dirty. To do it now would be WAY more difficult.

Every lint ball and grain of sand within a mile of your shop comes looking for you once you start working in there. Even bird poop appears if you leave the doors open much.

Bock
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
firehawkclone
post May 12 2007, 04:02 PM
Post #38


Grumpy
*****

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 2,722
Joined: 1-January 04
From: Bakersfield CA
Member No.: 81



This was posted awhile back on here http://www.ultimategarage.com/
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
v7guy
post May 15 2007, 05:43 PM
Post #39


Advanced Member
**

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 854
Joined: 26-December 03
From: NYC, NY
Member No.: 50



I've also found this site useful
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/index.php


edited cause I suck at the internet

This post has been edited by v7guy: May 15 2007, 05:44 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bsim
post May 16 2007, 01:38 AM
Post #40


Race Driver
**

Group: Advanced Members
Posts: 382
Joined: 14-February 04
From: SoCal
Member No.: 205



<<--- Jealous.

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

3 Pages V  < 1 2 3 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
2 User(s) are reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th March 2024 - 10:13 PM