The F-Body Market Options

[mitchntx]

Has anyone else noticed that used aftermarket parts availabilty has gone up quite a bit? And has anyone noticed that parts sales seem to be way off?

I see longtube headers for sale and there are zero replies. OF course, in many cases, owners are asking 80-90% of retail. They must be smoking crack.

Camshafts and heads are in abundant supply ... but again, way over priced for used parts.

It appears that the mod market might be drying up a tad for this platform. Stands to reason ... it's been out of production for 2 1/2 years. I just find it interesting that parts are becoming more abundant, both retail and used, yet the costs are not coming down.

[Chris 96 WS6]

Interesting observations....

Stands to reason that as the last of the newer cars age, go out of warranty, etc., the market for modifications will mature to some degree, and eventually peak. I think that's why we've seen vendors scrambling to add other platforms to their menu of parts.

[Lucas Black]

i just can't believe it's already been that long since the end of production....

[Chris 96 WS6]

It hasn't been 2.5 yrs. I think it was Sept 2002.

[98_1LE]

Out of production does not mean limited parts supply, look at Fox Mustangs. As they age, I suspect the fourthgen will take their place, and the LS1 cars will be like the '87-'92 Fox, as in preferred. Just my opinion.

[94bird]

No, in the 4th gen era we never sold close to what Mustangs did. That's why the Mustang is still in production. Well, that and GM way overpredicted what the F body would sell and built a business case around that volume.

[Eric02z]

the LT1 cars sold close to mustang numbers for a few years. I tend to agree with Chuck but the market for domestics is much smaller overall than in the early 90's. (when 5.0s where strong)

Parts have come down alot, they wont get to SBC/SBF prices because they started way too high and they wont hit those volumes. The interchange of LS1-LS2 is gonna be a large factor as well.

[98_1LE]

The F-bodies may not have sold as many cars, but I would wager that there are more fouthgens left than Fox Mustangs. Maybe it is just where I live.

Aftermarket parts availabilty, like most things, is directly related to supply and demand. If the economy continues to do well, chances are the demand will be strong for a long time.

[Absolut Speed]

I've always been surprised at the cost of aftermarket parts for the LS1's. Back when I had a 302 in my 88 Cougar XR-7, I was always envious of the parts costs for those GM guys with the 350's. Now those 302 prices look spectacular compared to LS1 parts. I realize development costs due to the new motor bump up the price, but with all the suppliers, I'm surprised at high prices stay. Perhaps I'm just getting too old and starting to say, "back in my day, I remember when...."

[94bird]

The F-bodies may not have sold as many cars, but I would wager that there are more fouthgens left than Fox Mustangs. Maybe it is just where I live.

It's just where you live.

[mitchntx]

OK .. a year and a half ... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Chuck has it correct ... supply and demand.

Face it guys ... the supply is gone. The platform is dead, nothing to remotely replace it as far as parts compatibility goes.

Any aftermarket manufacturer would be nuts in this economy to spend precious R&D dollars on a platform that lasted for 4 years (LS1 F-Body).

Can we all agree that R&D on LT1 engines has all but ceased? Why would the LS1 be any different? And don't say Corvette, because those guys are in another stratosphere ...

I think it's insane the cost of aftermarket parts for an LS1 car (demand?). I think it's insane to pay near retail for used parts (supply?).

And all these used F-Body parts cropping up ... why are the owners selling? Platform change?

[94bird]

For a racecar or hobby car a 3rd gen F body looks mighty good to me. The body was very popular and was made for 10 model years. The engine was just a Gen I Chevy and can easily be carbureted if you want. It's probably the closest you get to a fairly modern GM chassis design with very cheap parts availability.

I am certain my days with my Firebird are numbered just because of the cost of preparing this thing. I keep on living under the illusion of saying, "Well, the car was paid for many years ago so it beats buying something else." In the mean time I keep on sinking more money into it. The car is a blast when Detroit weather lets me go on the track in it, but jeez, it's expensive. I look at a car like a Factory Five racer and always think twice about whether I have the right car. No Spec Miata for me thank you, but a kit car that I could get cheap powertrain parts for doesn't sound bad.

[Jeff97FST/A]

Does it seem that AFS auctions on ebay for the camarobird wheels is drying up? I see lots for Mustangs, and the odd corvette/camaro/firebird. Great, now that I have a pair of 17x11 polished wheels for a coffee table...

Seems to me there's a good bit of stuff on ebay from recyclers - maybe they're trying to squeeze that last bit out of the well before it runs dry?

[Chris 96 WS6]

Any aftermarket manufacturer would be nuts in this economy to spend precious R&D dollars on a platform that lasted for 4 years (LS1 F-Body).

Can we all agree that R&D on LT1 engines has all but ceased? Why would the LS1 be any different? And don't say Corvette, because those guys are in another stratosphere ...

I think it's insane the cost of aftermarket parts for an LS1 car (demand?). I think it's insane to pay near retail for used parts (supply?).

And all these used F-Body parts cropping up ... why are the owners selling? Platform change?

But the number of retailers is still huge for aftermarket parts. have you counted the sheer number of sponsors at LS1tech.com recently? Its over 70. Anybody who can is making a buck or two selling LS1 parts these days. I think the saving grace is that the internals interchange 100% with the truck Vortec motors, which broadens the market.

The LS1 is still HOT HOT HOT in my opinion.

I won't argue with you the LT1 is sort of a stepchild now. All R&D went straight to the LS1 the day it came out...or so it seems.

The only significant LT1 products to arrive in the last few years are from companies that made their name in the LS1 market and finally got enough requests from LT1 guys to have some "version" of their own...like a lot of the longtube packages, etc.

[SSpeedracer]

I knew parts would be fewer for an F-Body than a mustang before I purchased the camaro in late '02. I'm a die hard pontiac fan, but couldnt pass up the price I paid for the camaro.

Part of the fun is modifying the car! Even when I day dream about purchasing a new car I immediately start to think about what improvements I would do after I drove the car off the showroom floor.

Relatively speaking, 4th gen F-bodies have many aftermarket parts available compared to more contemporary vehicles. Even first and second generation f-bodies still have new performance parts available.

The only used high performance parts that I regularly see overpriced are nitrous kits, LS6 intakes, and blowers. The demand is still very high for these parts as they appeal to the 1/4 mile and street race crowd.

Just rambling...

[Soma07]

Can we all agree that R&D on LT1 engines has all but ceased?


And all these used F-Body parts cropping up ... why are the owners selling? Platform change?

Pretty much, but luckily the LT1 shares quite a few parts with a Gen I SBC so there are no shortage of ways to build one. The only real limiting factor are the blocks. The motor was only made for 5yrs and only for a handful of cars. I can easily see rebuildable LT1 blocks getting pretty expensive in the next few years.

As for all the used parts showing up its just people moving on to other platforms. No one wants to drive an f-body anymore with all the other choices now available.

[sgarnett]

All the other choices?

Nothing has stepped in to fill the performance bang-for-the buck shoes of a stripper LS1 Z28, and Mustangs weren't designed to seat drivers that have shoulders.

[Rob Hood]

Interesting thread!

I think that LS1 aftermarket parts costs still are relatively high due to lower overall production volume compared to Gen I SBC components. It is however, very odd that a discontinued vehicle commands such high aftermarket prices for its various bolt-on components. The ubiquitous header is perhaps a good item to compare and contrast. I paid roughly $240/$250 for a set of Hooker S/C headers for my 1979 Z back in 1988, and had them coated a few years later for $200. Today, even Hooker's own LS1 LT's cost over $400 UNcoated, and that's at the low end of the spectrum for exhaust parts. Other brands cost two to three times that, for roughly the same HP gain. That's one of the reasons why I don't have LT's - $900 for maybe 20-25 HP is too much dinero for such a small gain, IMO. I also don't think that inflation is the root cause of the overall price increases over the past several years, but I'm no economist.

However, it does appear that the aftermarket has upped ante by producing a better quality product, as many parts truly are now a "bolt-on." I think many new or newer companies (compared to the aftermarket companies that existed in the late 70's/early 80's) were started by people who were simply tired of bolt-ons not really being bolt-ons. And of course, you do get what you pay for. Quality construction, improved durability and reliability, all cost more. That same set of Hookers I bought for my 1979 Z were made in Mexico (pre-NAFTA no less), and I had several fitment problems, most notably the #1 pipe not clearing the #3 plug (I had angleplug heads) without dimpling the pipe, and until I got a Tilton mini-starter, I had massive header clearance problems with the OE starter. I'm not saying that all new LS1-based headers are a perfect fit, but I think most aftermarket manufacturers are building a better exhaust component now. My Flowmaster AT cat-back has been on the car since July 1999, and is still in good shape.

If GM doesn't revive the F-body somehow, someway, as a moderately low-cost V8/RWD platform, I am convinced they will lose a vast portion of the youth market for good (if they haven't already) and the trickle-down effect of that will hit the aftermarket very hard, perhaps ultimately causing jobs to be lost.

[Soma07]

All the other choices?

Nothing has stepped in to fill the performance bang-for-the buck shoes of a stripper LS1 Z28, and Mustangs weren't designed to seat drivers that have shoulders.

Yes, while bank for the buck they are still unbeatable that wasn't enough to save them while they were in production, and its still not enough now to keep people from moving on.

As hard as it may be for us accept not everyone wants a heavy car with a crappy interior based on a 20yr old platform. No matter how great the engine is the rest of the car was seriously dated.

Don't get me wrong. I love my car for what it is, but I am not blind to its shortcomings either.

[Eric02z]

As hard as it may be for us accept not everyone wants a heavy car with a crappy interior based on a 20yr old platform. No matter how great the engine is the rest of the car was seriously dated.

what's dated ?

All I can think of is the floor pan (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)